I applied outbound spousal visa in January 2023. Received a PFL in November 2023 and responded same month. Everything else has cleared but there is no response to the PFL. The reason for PFL is they did not believe the sponsor thats me intend to go back to Canada. I have lots of evidence and may be I overdid it in my response. What are the chances of me getting approval for a TRV visa while PFL is pending. If they are going to deny I figure they would have denied by now. If they also wanted to interview this is ok by me. We have 2 children together all Canadian citizen. We live in Saigon, Vietnam and I understand Singapore Visa office is a slower office. Does my TRV get processed at Singapore or get processed in Canada?
Apply TRV while PFL is pending
- Thread starter ttanin
- Start date
Sure, apply. It will likely be processed or at least 'checked' with/by the officer processing in Singapore. It might get refused but no harm in trying. I think chances are good but just a guess.
Since the only reason you got the PFL was the move to Canada part, include a letter of explanation that you would like to return to Canada with your spouse (who has the PR application pending) and your children. Refer to interests of the children to all go together.
This has one of two most likely outcomes (in my view): either get the TRV, or get the PPR for the PR application (because the officer might have to deal with the file there and easier to just get it done).
Refusal might be if they really expect you won't return to Canada at all. It does happen but not that often, at least for those who show some real intent to return (as you seem to have done).
Since the only reason you got the PFL was the move to Canada part, include a letter of explanation that you would like to return to Canada with your spouse (who has the PR application pending) and your children. Refer to interests of the children to all go together.
This has one of two most likely outcomes (in my view): either get the TRV, or get the PPR for the PR application (because the officer might have to deal with the file there and easier to just get it done).
Refusal might be if they really expect you won't return to Canada at all. It does happen but not that often, at least for those who show some real intent to return (as you seem to have done).
I'm very sorry to hear that. So that you are aware, appealing may take longer than simply reapplying.
If you think there's a chance you may reapply, let us know what evidence you submitted to support that you plan to move to Canada. There may be ways to strengthen.
Good luck regardless.
Sorry to hear that.
As noted, you can appeal, but you can't appeal and re-apply at the same time, it has to be one or the other.
My general comment in addition is that a new application will not just be quicker, but you can easily 'correct' the issue (that they did not believe you would return to Canada) by ... returning to Canada before you apply. (You could also apply before returning and then update when you do, but returning before would make things quicker).
This may be inconvenient and involve some more time apart from your family or part of it than you'd planned. It is what it is.
You can hope that the TRV for your spouse will be approved, but even if it isn't, a subsequent trv application (once you are in Canada and have submitted the app) would probalby have a higher chance of approval.
As noted, we can also give some input on your app before this and what needs to be strengthened, but by far the best way to address it is by sponsor applying within Canada.
While I am thinking on my options, Here is what I provided as proof. I left Canada in 1992 and started to travel to Canada frequently in 2018 and May 2019 moved permanently. I was taking care my father it was not exactly a planned move. I continued to operate my online business in USA while taking care my father. I opened bank account, had to revisit Canada service center to unfreeze my SIN number, applied OHIP with letter from landlord and got OHIp, visited family physician and transferred my medical file from USA and also got referred to the specialists. ( All documented to immigration) I left my car in USA and also I did not change my drivers license. As 2019 progressed my father died, and then I found out my wife is pregnant in Vietnam. I was trying to clear my fathers estate and Covid hit. I left Canada in a hurry before the lock down. Immigration is saying I did not establish sufficient ties to Canada. I also submitted proof of my online business in USA, I provided how much money I make. I am not interested in starting over in Canada as my online income is substantial. It is easy for me to operate this business anywhere in Canada. I also provided proof of housing search, emails from mortgage broker in Canada to see how I can use US based income to get a mortgage in Canada, emails from doctors about missed appointments and so on. While I will talk to 1 lawyer today, re-applying is kind of not what I am thinking. If I can re-establish that I am going back to Canada and get Ohip, that shows I am serious about moving back to Canada. I would rather be with my family. Let the appeal process move forward. IN the mean time, I will see if I should sponsor my wife into USA. They have no such requirement for US citizens proof of returning. I may decide to visit a Canadian financial advisor and get a letter showing how much more in Taxes I will pay to the Canadian government. I pay zero to Canadian government now. There were also other points. I am Certified Acceptance Agent in USA. This allows me to issue US Tax ID numbers to Canadian businesses easily. I told them we would be moving to the Niagara Falls area close to the USA border. The only way as a Canadian business to get an US tax ID number is to drive back to Toronto. Either my business being too tied to USA or the person at Singapore visa office not understanding how important it is to have a Certified Acceptance Agent near the USA Canada border, one of these pissed off Immigration. I really cant imagine reapplying while I live overseas and I will not move to Canada on my own. lets see from lawyers if there is a way they can approve TRV even though spousal was declined.
It is all up to you, of course. Sure, talk to a lawyer. Think whatever you like.
But I repeat: for the most part, from what we have seen here, appeals seem to consistently take longer than re-applying. Perhaps there are exceptions, I have heard some claim to have written and requested 'review', never heard of one being accepted that way (i.e. IRCC reversing course once a decision has been taken).
TRV: obviously one question is to wait and see if current app gets accepted. I would hope it would given that you have two citizen-children and understandable they would want to visit Canada with mother. Has your spouse ever visited Canada / held a visa to USA/EU etc?
As for being apart: my suggestion of returning first is function of the fastest way of moving forward including being together again (with shortest period apart) - referring only to spouse as kids can travel at will.
In order of rough minimal-time apart from scenarios I referred to:
[well obviously if you refuse to leave and just re-apply and wait or decide to go to USA, you won't be apart]
1 - if TRV is approved right away, you all go to Canada and apply inland ASAP. This is likely also fastest way of getting PR approved.
2 - if not approved and you go to Canada, apply outland on arrival and then re-apply for TRV once AOR is received (about 30-60 days). That might mean spouse can't join you for 60-120 days if TRV approved.
3 - if TRV declined, perhaps 6-12 months wait (although can re-apply for TRV). Some chance it might be faster as likely they did some/much of the checking of your spouse.
Again, up to you. General comment: don't try to make decisions while angry about this (it happens). Regardless, if / when you reapply, you may want to get others to review your submission: to me your long paragraph above was confusing with a lot of irrelevant details.
Keep it short, succinct, simple story - focus on verifiable dates and details, use bullet points. To me the essential elements of your story and proof of plan to return to Canada are:
-After residing abroad for some years, you were in process of re-establishing yourself in Canada in 2018-19. Covid caused you to leave Canada because of children and spouse and obviously travel was limited.
-You will support yoursefl and your family by running the same online business you have now.
-You have not yet moved back only because of spouse and two young children.
-Emphasize also TRV application for spouse, mention family reunification.
-You have the means and can show that you will/have rent(ed) a place when needed. Show other arrangements (bank accounts, schooling, moving stuff, etc). [Obviously I don't know details of what you did before]
-It will help if you set a date you plan to move (eg to 'prepare for spouse' and kids by arranging business), and then do it (advising IRCC after the fact) if not approved by then.
Good luck.
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I appreciate your time. First time I applied on January 3rd and received AOR on June 9. There was nothing missing in my application. So understand that I am reluctant to be away that much time from my wife and 2 kids. I got to learn Singapore Visa office has its own schedule. Its possible my application was delayed because they were in the process of pushing all applications online, but I am not 100% sure. If I re apply my understanding is that I either fix an error or add substantial new evidence. There was no major error in my application and I am out of things to make my application stronger. But lets see what the lawyer says. Its quite possible with the software upgrades they missed some of my supporting material. Thanks for your positive support on this forum.
Do inform what lawyer says. (personally I'd be a wee bit skeptical of suggestions for appeal where lawyer costs are high - but if you rule out other options, that is what they'll suggest).
As I noted, applying from within Canada would make your application much stronger - likely to go quickly. (Although I'm not clear if all apps for Vietnamese passport holders go through Singapore)
Understand your skepticism, though, since 6 months for aor is unusual.
At any rate: don't make any big decisions until trv response is received (including engaging lawyer beyond consultations). If TRV is approved, you could all get on the next flight Canada bound and apply inland. That would obviate pretty much the entire discussion.
[As background, I've advised here numerous times that anyone getting the PFL for intent to return to Canada should get on the flight immediately and update IRCC of change of address. That's pretty much incontrovertible response.]
So I spoke to 2 lawyers. They both said my TRV will get denied just because the sponsorship was already denied. We will likely go with the appeal. I may also just apply for US green card, it will likely come sooner than Canadian appeal. The best advice is to rent a space before the appeal hearing. Another option I am considering is to start a business in Canada and hire someone to work for my online business. If I have a business in Canada and full time employ a Canadian, it kind of kills Immigration argument that I have no ties to Canada. They also suggested may be I add servicing Canadians. That's a hard one. I manage money in the USA. To service Canadians it requires me to pass licensing tests. I am not interested in that at this stage. I manage some money for Canadians who invest in the USA but the lawyers think more in the direction of managing money for Canadians in Canada. Its actually a low margin business as the fund fees are much higher in Canada. Let me think about this for few weeks.
It is well known that Vietnamese citizens are treated much worse for sponsorship. All of them go through the Singapore office. Its been like that for years. I actually know an Immigration officer who worked at Singapore Visa Office like 30 years ago.
It is well known that Vietnamese citizens are treated much worse for sponsorship. All of them go through the Singapore office. Its been like that for years. I actually know an Immigration officer who worked at Singapore Visa Office like 30 years ago.
Did any of them specifically address whether appealing would be faster than re-applying?
I'm less certain about the TRV. Things have changed somewhat. And your case somewhat unusual in terms of the catch-22 that they say you won't return, and then [might] turn down your spouse for ability to visit with family. There is some automatic type responses in these things unfortunately though.
In terms of likelihood of success, actually returning to Canada is far stronger evidence.
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I think others are suggesting to reapply for sponsorship, not for TRV. If you can provide more proof to relocate, applying fresh usually is quicker than appeal.
TRV, likely won't be approved because of the refused sponsorship. But it will show additional intent to move back/visit to prepare to move back to Canada sooner than the PR being approved.
This is a good point. (I still wouldn't rule out the TRV but it may depend on some other factors too, eg if spouse has had USA visas and the like)
I'd also add: we don't see a lot of refusals on this basis (intent to return to Canada), and I don't recall any of them actually appealing. At least, not that any have reported.
I recall ALL of them being very angry and insulted, which I can understand, but not much of a basis for decision-making.
Plenty of supporting documents were submitted to prove that I am returning to Canada. If I can go back reeastablish OHIP during the Covid crisis that shows I am serious about returning back to Canada. The only thing I can do is buy a home or may be rent something for 12 months. I visited Canada 42 times by airplane in the last 5 years. I had the highest level on Porter Airlines. So I do not see the point in reapplying. Should I fly Air Canada 300 times next year to show intent?
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