Applied in 2011 and still waiting

[Lily2011]

to start, here is my timeline:

1. Application submitted 22 Feb 2011
2. RQ received Nov 2011
3. RQ returned Dec 2011 (some requested documents were submitted in Jan 2012 due to delay from Canada Border)
4. Requested specific case inquiry March 2014 and the reply was that the Calgary office recieved my RQ in Oct 2012 (a year after returning it) and that "your file is currently in queue to be reviewed by an officer. The current processing time in Calgary for non – routine applications is approximately 44 months from the date of application. As your application was received in February 2011 it is still within their current processing time" which is depressing.
5. I contacted my MP who inquired about my file. He told me that my application is in queue for an officer to review the RQ submitted in 2011.
6. I applied to renew my PR card in Oct 2013 and it is still processing.

My lawyer gave me two options, either wait it out or apply for mandamus. The thing is, the CIC website states that 36 months is the processing time for non-routine applicants, while the email I received says that it is 44 months which means 7 more months.

My only worry is that I might lose my PR status due to work obligations outside Canada. I am doing the best I can to maintain it but it is really hard to do so. I am moving back permanently after I'm done and I am even looking in to houses at the moment (rent them out to help pay the mortgage until I move back). Not to mention that one of my kids is Canadians and the other is not which makes it very confusing for Canada borders whenever we enter the country (I show them my PR, my kid's Canadian passport and my other kid's visa) I considered sponsoring my child to grant her a PR status but the processing time is ridiculous and I thought my citizenship application would be done by then (hopefully).

What happens if I had to leave Canada while my PR is processing for reasons beyond my control? They still did not decide if they will grant me another PR card so how do I apply for travel documents if they are not decided yet?

Is buying property in Canada will help my application in ANY way?

Any advice on how to proceed?

Thanks

P.S. I'm new to the board and not familiar with all the acronyms yet.

 

[Msafiri]

1. You may find it useful to refer to this Calgary Timeline thread. There isn't a large sample size but its obvious Calgary is slow with routine applicants seemingly getting to oath at around 20 months.

2. CIC don't buy the leaving Canada for reasons beyond my control unless within a narrow range. Until the day you oath you must maintain PR status. If you breach the Residence Obligation (RO) and get reported by CBSA/CIC then this stops Citizenship processing until you have a successful appeal. If you lose appeal then you are not a PR and citizenship application is closed out. It appears the reason for your absence is employment. Only if this was an overseas assignment by a bonafide Canadian business would you get a pass and even then the threshold by CIC is very high. (If your company is not TSX listed I wouldn't bother).

3. You may be very well playing a dangerous game of roulette with your PR status. The RO requires you to have 730 days of physical presence in Canada in the 5 year period prior to any examination. You are examined at each entry into Canada, any time you apply for an immigration benefit e.g. Travel Document, Sponsorship, PR Card renewal.

4. Depending on your child's age and your RO situation you should ideally sponsor her for PR. However this requires you to reside in Canada. CIC will expect consent of this sponsorship from the other parent or court documentation giving you sole custody.

5. Buying a property makes you resident for tax purposes as does home ownership. You are expected to declare the rental income to CRA. It does little to help with immigration but would be considered as a 'passive residential tie' to Canada. This consideration would be relative to the other passive ties you had but more importantly any active ties. An active tie is something that requires you to be physically present in Canada e.g. working a regular 40 hour week for a Canadian employer in a job requiring your physical presence.

6. Do you know why you were RQd? How many days of physical presence did you have at application date in the 4 years prior? Did you have at least 1095 days?

7. What documentation have you submitted in support of your RQ?

8. Calgary is Conservative heartland - its unlikely an MP from the area would sweat CIC to speed up your processing as this would be challenging its own policy. If it was say an opposition MP or a Conservative MP in a marginal seat who knows you may one day vote for him or her then it may be different. The odds of any other party other than the Conservatives holding sway in Calgary is slim to none i.e. the MP doesn't really need your vote so what incentive is there for him/her to chase this beyond a generic 'what is the status' and feed back a 'its being looked into'.

9. You should apply for GCMS notes via the ATIP process. Google ATIP or input this in the search option on the forum. The notes will reveal more about your application such as the commencement and expiry dates of any background checks.

 

[jyles]

same as I, I applied May2011, Got RQ'd @ Nov 2012 until now waiting... so depressing
:'( :'(

 

[Lily2011]

Msafiri, Thank you for the detailed answer.

The reason I left is beyond my control. My husband was sponsored to come to Canada to finish his training, and was required to sign a legal contract that obligates him to work off these years once he is done. The sponsor wont let us go until he finishes his obligation. I wont take my girls away from their father only to fulfill my PR obligation. Not worth breaking up my family.

I, however, am free to work wherever I like. Now I'm thinking I could find a job at a Canadian company here to count the days towards my PR. I've been searching for Canadian companies in Saudi Arabia (they say there are more than 500 of them) but I couldn't find one yet. I'll keep at it. If anyone know of one please share.

As for sponsoring my child, there is a link on the CIC website to do that from outside Canada but it takes almost 2 years. My child has a visa to enter Canada until 2018 so I think it is not worth it to apply.

As for why we were RQd, our lawyer says they usually do that for people from the Middle East. All our friends got one so I tend to believe him.

I found a tool to help me apply for GCMS notes via the ATIP process online. How will that help me? What if the background checks are expired, what then?

 

[moti]

Hi Lily and jyles,

I am in the same boat as you guys. Applied in 2011, still waiting . which is your local office ? did you got ATIP or called cic ??

 

[jyles]

Calgary.. my status we've been working both of us since we arrived but as contract worker Aug 2006 and my wife arrive Oct 2007 we got our residency july 2008 we apply may 2011. I think our reason for our RQ is this can be found I think:

citizenshipact.ca

based on that link we supposed to wait July 2011 or else RQ will be sent but we have more than 1,300 days we never go out in Canada, I don't know the reason...Lily did the CIC response to you through letter or email that it will be 44 months?

Any same situation like me...thanks for sharing, lets just cross our fingers!!!

 

[daktrader]

Request your ATIP report to get a better understanding of your application...

Calgary.. my status we've been working both of us since we arrived but as contract worker Aug 2006 and my wife arrive Oct 2007 we got our residency july 2008 we apply may 2011. I think our reason for our RQ is this can be found I think:

citizenshipact.ca

based on that link we supposed to wait July 2011 or else RQ will be sent but we have more than 1,300 days we never go out in Canada, I don't know the reason...Lily did the CIC response to you through letter or email that it will be 44 months?

Any same situation like me...thanks for sharing, lets just cross our fingers!!!

 

[Lily2011]

Lily did the CIC response to you through letter or email that it will be 44 months?

It was through email. I sent a Case-Specific Inquiry (there is a specific form on the CIC site) and they replied within two weeks I think.

 

[daktrader]

This is the Link if Interersted:

https://dmp-portal.cic.gc.ca/enquiries-renseignements/canada-case-cas-eng.aspx

It was through email. I sent a Case-Specific Inquiry (there is a specific form on the CIC site) and they replied within two weeks I think.

 

[Msafiri]

Msafiri, Thank you for the detailed answer.

The reason I left is beyond my control. My husband was sponsored to come to Canada to finish his training, and was required to sign a legal contract that obligates him to work off these years once he is done. The sponsor wont let us go until he finishes his obligation. I wont take my girls away from their father only to fulfill my PR obligation. Not worth breaking up my family.....

You are free to leave Canada as you please but only Canadian Citizens and Registered Indians have the unrestricted right of entry into Canada. PRs are required to meet the RO at all times. When reviewed against comparable developed countries Canada's PR requirements are softer than soft - you get to keep your PR with only 40% time in Canada (2/5 years). Add to this exemptions for accompanying a Citizen abroad and employment with a Canadian Company and a pass on the RO if you have Humanitarian & Compassionate reasons. A system such as this is rife with abuse and what happens is that when your luck runs out its a hard sell to keep the PR. So while your situation with respect as personal as it is to you is that eventually you must fit in with CIC's rules and the Immigration System (IRPA) and not the other way round where Canada fits into your life plans and situations. The courts would just argue as to why you want to be a citizen if you can't follow the rules.

......I, however, am free to work wherever I like. Now I'm thinking I could find a job at a Canadian company here to count the days towards my PR. I've been searching for Canadian companies in Saudi Arabia (they say there are more than 500 of them) but I couldn't find one yet. I'll keep at it. If anyone know of one please share.....

Sorry no dice you first have to employed here in Canada then assigned overseas. CIC knew this exemption route would have PRs by the dozen setting up mom and pops incorporations. CIC scrutinize the employer and employee in great detail. In my time across multiple immigration forums over a period of over 5 years I have only ever seen a couple of successful appeals at the Federal Court for PRs that got reported and used the Canadian Business exemption. In one of them CIC had made a mess of the RO review anyway.

...... As for sponsoring my child, there is a link on the CIC website to do that from outside Canada but it takes almost 2 years. My child has a visa to enter Canada until 2018 so I think it is not worth it to apply....

Dependent children are processed fast for PR as they don't have to get background checks. You may have seen an average timeline. The issue though is you are not resident in Canada and when you sponsor your RO will be reviewed.

..As for why we were RQd, our lawyer says they usually do that for people from the Middle East. All our friends got one so I tend to believe him.

The ME presents a special problem for CIC. The area uniquely has a significant number of expatriates from non G8 (developing) countries caught in the conundrum that they have mega wages and perks (relative to Canada) but will never get residency rights. Many apply for PR/use Canada as a back up plan when their ME time is up but they don't necessarily want to give up those big bucks in the ME (and tax free to boot) especially if they have to make a sacrifice and get a 'survival' job in Canada that sets back their lifestyle.

Case law shows CIC's concern at the level of residence fraud from both PR Card renewal and Citizenship applicants 'residing' in the region. Add in that many of these places have automated border gates and it can be a challenge to track travel (since CIC/CBSA never used to track exits they effectively relied on entries to other countries as equating to exits from Canada). Its got to the point where CIC are now almost always asking RQd applicants with ME residence stamps to submit official entry/exit records from the relevant Interior/Immigration Ministry. CIC/CBSA through diplomatic channels can and have got the same data to include for prosecuting the first of Citizenship revocations due to residency fraud to come.

.......I found a tool to help me apply for GCMS notes via the ATIP process online. How will that help me? What if the background checks are expired, what then?

The GCMS notes will indicate if your RQ has been reviewed (doesn't seem so) and the expiry dates of your background checks. You can't be scheduled for a test if these checks are expired. The note may also indicate the RQ reasons and enable you to focus on dealing with CIC's concerns. It may also indicate if you have been referred to a hearing with the Citizenship Judge. In your shoes and hopefully the lawyer you are using has told you the same I would be concentrating my efforts on obtaining as much documentary evidence of 'physical presence' in Canada as I could. Such includes a record of billing from Alberta Health Services to show the dates you attended for any medical related treatment e.g. family doctor, lab tests, MRI scans etc. Bank statements and leases are 'passive indicators' of presence - you don't have to be in Canada to have them and any one e.g. family member or friend can be using your bank cards etc and pretending its you (many PRs have done this to hide absences). You don't say what you provided for the RQ or your physical days but CIC don't believe your declarations. You may find it beneficial to get official entry/exit records from the Saudi Interior Ministry and comparable organization in your home country if you also travelled there in the 4 year Citizenship qualifying period.

If the RQ response does not satisfy the Citizenship Officer you will be referred to an oral hearing with the Citizenship Judge. This adds at least one year to the times you have been provided by CIC. Calgary has two CJs and its badly backlogged. With your continued absences your RO will eventually be breached if it hasn't already. You may be getting away with an RO breach now but one day your PR Card will expire and you will be busted at PRTD application or PR Card renewal (did you have 730 days?). Or you could be called for a test and can't make it. Once reported your citizenship application will be stopped. Your RO breach reasons are not considered as they are a lifestyle choice so you will lose your PR. No PR no Citizenship.

To summarize the longer this takes the greater the risk to you of falling through. But you never know you may oath ok but the odds based on what we see on the forum are not in your favor.

Good luck!

 

[jyles]

thank you so much for the responses Ill try to grt ATIP next week past my processing time..

 

[Lily2011]

Msafiri

What about if we moved back before October 2014 (the 44 months Calgary office processing time deadline), then filed for Writ of Mandamus?

We will have to appear in front of a judge for sure and by then we would have settled in Canada for months and have jobs (and job contracts), a residential lease, our daughters enrolled in schools, and we would establish that we are back for good.

Do you think that the odds will be in our favor then and our case will more forward or will the judge examine only the past and the lack of the 730 days will hurt our case?

If anyone have any info that could help please share!

Thanks

 

[kiranswaroop04]

Msafiri...I've been following a few threads and noticed you are active and have good input. So want to get your thoughts:

PR since: Oct 2008
PR expiry: Jan 2016
Citizenship Application received: Aug 2011 (@ Vancouver)
Acknowledgement letter + booklet received: Sep 2011
Started processing appl.: July 2012 (per eCase)
Letter requesting information: July 2012 (per eCase)
Another letter requesting information: Nov 2012 (per eCase)
Letter with missing residence information sent: Dec 2012 (not updated in eCase)
Letter stating 'Delayed Application': Feb 2013 (not updated in eCase) [This letter was received from CPC in Sydney, N.S.]

I went to the US in Sep 2011 to do my Masters. I updated CIC with my US address and stating my situation in my letter sent Dec 2012. Received the 'Delay Application' letter in US address on Feb 2013. Towards the end of my study (Sep 2013) we had a baby and could not move to Canada due to medical insurance reasons.

Not hearing anything from CIC on the Citizenship application I moved to ON, Canada Mar 2014 in order to maintain RO for my PR. Change of address notified to CIC. File is still in
Vancouver office.

There has been no request for test or RQ or anything. Upon calling CIC I was told this is 'non-routine' so the wait time is 36 months. I'm currently at 33 months, but still no request for test?!?

I'm planning to send a letter requesting case update and why I have yet to receive anything after Feb 2013. Here are my questions:
1. Now that I'm in ON should I transfer the file? I'm nervous that this will result in fresh review from stage 1
2. I should apply for GCMS notes via the ATIP process, right?
3. What info should I send to Vanc CIC to get this application moving?

I understand CIC's position in not moving an application for someone who is not in the country. The purpose of my visit was not employment based (except for a 4 month internship for MBA). Reviewing all the threads I realize everyone is having delays, but no RQ or test request for after almost 3yrs of application is worrying me.

Anyone with any input on this please help!!

 

[Msafiri]

Msafiri

What about if we moved back before October 2014 (the 44 months Calgary office processing time deadline), then filed for Writ of Mandamus?

We will have to appear in front of a judge for sure and by then we would have settled in Canada for months and have jobs (and job contracts), a residential lease, our daughters enrolled in schools, and we would establish that we are back for good.

Do you think that the odds will be in our favor then and our case will more forward or will the judge examine only the past and the lack of the 730 days will hurt our case?

If anyone have any info that could help please share!

Thanks

1. CJ will review the 4 year qualifying period in your citizenship application. CIC can and will appeal any CJ approval if you don't have or can't prove 1095 days of physical presence which it seems is the real issue for you.

2. Your WOM will be influenced by your RQ response. The WOM pushes CIC to review the RQ (not to approve your application as many mistakenly presume) and forward your file to the CJ. If your RQ is weak then either the CJ bounces your application or issues you another request for additional documentation adding yet more delay to your timeline.

3. You need to try and avoid CJ hearing - improve your RQ submission. Use the window you have now to provide additional documents as per my prior suggestion.

4. The RO issue won't go away and with your PR Card expiring its getting dicey - you maybe be ok if not reported but CIC are now more on the ball with 'out of country' citizenship applicants (aka applying on your way to the airport) when they show up for their test/oath and you can expect a 'where do you work' and 'how long have you been gone' approach!

 

[Msafiri]

Msafiri...I've been following a few threads and noticed you are active and have good input. So want to get your thoughts:
.....I'm planning to send a letter requesting case update and why I have yet to receive anything after Feb 2013. Here are my questions:
1. Now that I'm in ON should I transfer the file? I'm nervous that this will result in fresh review from stage 1
2. I should apply for GCMS notes via the ATIP process, right?
3. What info should I send to Vanc CIC to get this application moving?

I understand CIC's position in not moving an application for someone who is not in the country. The purpose of my visit was not employment based (except for a 4 month internship for MBA). Reviewing all the threads I realize everyone is having delays, but no RQ or test request for after almost 3yrs of application is worrying me.

Anyone with any input on this please help!!

Always better to start off a fresh threads but all good. Thanks too for the props but lots of knowledgeable folk on here assisting many...I just add my 2 cents!

1. You must transfer the file or you will have complications. As an incentive Ontario is significantly faster for routine applications and for pre-test RQd applicants. Your mistake was the change of address to the US. The norm is to leave things as they are with a reliable Canadian address and return for test and oath when called upon. Whilst this doesn't entirely remove RQ risk its not aiding to CIC taking the view we'll put your file on the back burner. I expect CIC to scrutinize your RO given you notified them of your absence.

2. Yes. Only then should you send a status update letter. Do CIC know you are back in Canada?

3. Look for posts by 'eileenf' - she has consolidated a RQ resource in her signature line based on detailed reviews, responses and experiences of RQd applicants across multiple immigration boards. Check the 'what should I submit' and if there is something in there proving your physical presence then add to the RQ package.

Do you have 1095 days of physical presence at application stage. If not then you should think about withdrawing the application. Such would have to be weighed up against being caught out by the new rules requiring an extra year of physical presence.