Applicant From Somalia -- Need Your Advise

[Camelboy]

Hi everyone

i am new to this forum, i am fiancee of a canadian girl and we are planning to apply for a PR Visa.
I am living in Somalia and Nairobi is going to be our Office to apply for the PR VISA.
Our initial plan was get engaged in Somalia, then wedding Marriage UAE and a honeymoon in Asia All this was planned for the forth coming summer 2013.
But now due to some family circumstances , her family is not able to attend the wedding at Dubai 2013.
and suggested to push it back to 2014 for a wedding and a honeymoon, and do only an enagment that summer 2013 in Somalia.

To apply for a PR VISA, after the initial plan , it is perfect as we will have a strong proof of engagement, wedding, photo (photos, hotel invoices, receipts, boarding passes, entry and exit stamps on passport, tickets from Somalia to Dubai, Dubai to malaysia and more..etc) plus the other ongoing relationship proof.

But now things changed, after the summer 2013 we will have only an engagement in Somalia, we will have a marriage certificate, some photos of the engagement celebration and entry and exit stamps to Somalia and a ticket. Plus a 1 year log files of Skype chat, phone bills, Western union receipts, postcards, emails and facebook message.

I know that we can apply after our engagment but I am feeling that our case willnot be strong as someone who had a engagement, wedding, and honeymoon .

Nairobi office is slowest office with 31 month, I am really afraid if i wait till the wedding and honeymoon is done it will be addition of 4 years, and to be stranded for 4 years into two different continents for a couple is really going to be difficult.

Do you guys suggest i should apply right after my engagement without a honeymoon, and a weding, I read from this forum many who had a simple enagement wedding and planned for the wedding in Canada, but I am having a feel that this is not a good case for Nairobi office as there is a high risk of rejection due to the high Marriage suspicion, another addition is that many documents can be easily forged in Somalia since there is no strong goverment) or should we wait until we have a wedding and a honeymoon in 2014 which is really something i can't wait.

Please adivse.

Best Regards

 

[Sweden]

Hello,

it seems to be a tricky situation you are in indeed, and I don't know much about Nairobi VO, so I can only give you my opinion, and maybe other people will add things..

I am not sure if you should go ahead with the application, and it's only my personal opinion.

I think it depends on what type of celebration you will have in 2013. You need to be legally married to be able to apply ( as I assume you are not living together already). So if the celebration that you will have in 2013 is a wedding ceremony and you will get a marriage certificate, you could consider applying. However, in your explanation to the VO, I would include already the plans for 2014 already, and any proofs you have of that plan ( even if it is happening in 2 years). Whatever reason made you consider to postpone the wedding - explain. Explain maybe that you will have a smaller celebration in 2013, and your plan for 2014...

As Nairobi has quite a long wiating time, in that sense you would be "saving time" for your application. You could prepare and send your application, after you got married in 2013, and keep on collectin all proofs of your relationship the time that your file sits in Nairobi.... so once your VO opens your file, then you might be called for an interview, and in that case - you could go well prepared, with your plans for 2014 ( or with the bigger ceremony already happened if that is the case) and it would make your case much stronger.

again - that's only my opinion, and I don't know how Nairobi VO works, so maybe some other people could also give their opinion.
Good luck on your application,
Sweden

 

[Camelboy]

Thanks Sweden I really appreciate your fast response.

The type of engagment wedding we will have will be an Islamic , there will be two separate celebration ceremonies, one for the ladies and another the men and at the end the couple will have some photos together with both side family members, that is the type of celebration we are planning to do.

 

[Sweden]

Thanks Sweden I really appreciate your fast response.

The type of engagment wedding we will have will be an Islamic , there will be two separate celebration ceremonies, one for the ladies and another the men and at the end the couple will have some photos together with both side family members, that is the type of celebration we are planning to do.

I am not sure that it will be enough to convince the VO and I am not an expert in Islamic wedding, probably some more experienced members, either from Nairobi VO or who have gone through the same type of wedding will be able to add more elements on what you need to get "as a minimum" to make sure that you will not be denied.

Keep in mind that the first stage (done in Canada) is mostly to assess if your fiancee is eligible to sponsor you, and not so much about the nature of your relationship. Since your VO has a long waiting time, it might be worth it to send your application ( with as much proofs as possible, including a full presentation of your plans, and as much proofs as possible for the plans in 2014), and if/when called for an interview, then you could present the extra proofs. like this you would already be in the system, and it would save you some time maybe. Also - if you get denied then you can appeal, as you are applying outland - and that would also be an occasion to bring more proofs ( although the process is quite long, so it would be best to avoid an appeal of course).

Good luck,
Sweden

 

[canadianwoman]

You cannot get a PR visa as a member of the spousal class with just an 'engagement'. It sounds like what you are now planning to do in the summer of 2013 is actually a wedding, not an engagement. If you try to apply with just that, do not ever mention that it is an engagement in the application or at an interview!
If you actually have a marriage certificate, and are just planning to have a bigger celebration in 2014, that may work.
Do you mean the 'nikah' when you talk about the celebration in 2014? If you do, applicants from Pakistan are often told to reapply once they have the nikah as well - they are not really considered married until they have that. To complicate things, some people have been accepted without the nikah.

 

[amikety]

You cannot get a PR visa as a member of the spousal class with just an 'engagement'. It sounds like what you are now planning to do in the summer of 2013 is actually a wedding, not an engagement. If you try to apply with just that, do not ever mention that it is an engagement in the application or at an interview!
If you actually have a marriage certificate, and are just planning to have a bigger celebration in 2014, that may work.
Do you mean the 'nikah' when you talk about the celebration in 2014? If you do, applicants from Pakistan are often told to reapply once they have the nikah as well - they are not really considered married until they have that. To complicate things, some people have been accepted without the nikah.

I'm under the same impression as canadianwoman that you are planning to apply as "engaged." There is no engaged class. If you're engaged, Immigration will tell you to get married first. Your marriage will need to statisfy the VO that it's real so skipping normal cultural/religious traditions may raise red flags. You should definitely include a letter explaining why you delayed or didn't do some official parts of the wedding. (Such as, I didn't invite my parents to my wedding, which is abnormal in... every culture... so I must write a letter explaining why.) If you're going to skip a major traditional part of an Islamic wedding, I would expect an interview.

To apply as a non-married couple, you would need to live together for a year first. Given what you've already said, that doesn't sound like it would be an option in your culture.

 

[Camelboy]

Dear Amikety & Canadiawoman

I really thank you so much for your comment on my post, i really appreciate it.

Usually here in Somalia we have two ceremonies, one is the Nikah , is the one we are planning to do summer 2013 and the bigger ceremony(summer 2014) . The Nikah is the official legal Marriage for Islam and many other Islamic countries, and Canada recognizes this. couples will receive their marriage certificate and a letter from the Sheikh who did the Mehr.

I think as long as you have a marriage certificate and Nikah happened there is no problem i think.

In Somalia when we say they get engaged we mean the Nikah but technically i am not sure if this is a different,
I checked the word engagement and i am confused with its meaning, i though it was like Mehr or Nikah but now it seems something with a different meaning. Wikipedia says:

An engagement or betrothal is a promise to marry, and also the period of time between proposal and marriage – which may be lengthy or trivial.

So in our case there is will be no engagement ceremony it will be one wedding in 2013 the Nikah and a bigger wedding in 2014? is that correct?

here are two questions i feel incomfortabl ewith them


14) Was there a formal ceremony to recognize/celebrate the engagement?

15) Was there a a reception?


To tie the knot in Islamic way, The Nikah happens with the presence of her Father or Uncle who ever is the male guardian and the Sheikh and then Shiekh will offer the letter with the Nikah amount, the couples name and all the info, and this letter can then be forwarded to the government to issue a marriage certificate, men will have some snacks and photos that is all,
and in the evening the bride and the ladies of both sides will attend a ceremony do some traditional songs and dances and that is it.

So the above will be the wedding.

How about the reception? Should we say the wedding was for the men, and the reception was done by the ladies.
or we say the reception and wedding were combined together.

I wish the main cultures/religions had their own customized forms.