Any hopes left for 400+ aspirants?

[boske83]

Absolutely agreed. This system, the first step itself, is ripe for fraud. People can create profiles with 1000+ scores. I know CIC does IP-checking and all; but there should be some kind of validation in first step itself. People can upload fake documents too. There should be some kind of small fee to prevent misuse of this step.

trust me - it is enough if they link EE system with ECA and/or IELTS test results... by pulling in those two sets of information based on ECA ref number and/or IELTS test ID , and making them unique profile identifiers(or max 3 appearances, like they said is possible), minimizes the fraud possibility... that means that person already invested in immigration process with 200$ + 200$, and it is sufficient...

On the other hand, I find valid LMIA unclear... this explanation (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/hire/offers.asp) makes me believe that all LMOs and some LMIAs are not valid for 600pts CRS bonus - i may be wrong, therefore I am asking for clarification from someone with more experience with canadian jobs - I am FSW and don't have a clue about this process

 

[namaste]

Absolutely agreed. This system, the first step itself, is ripe for fraud. People can create profiles with 1000+ scores. I know CIC does IP-checking and all; but there should be some kind of validation in first step itself. People can upload fake documents too. There should be some kind of small fee to prevent misuse of this step.

I don't think anyone should be worried about frauds. If people were bent on committing fraud, they would do it no matter what the system is. Every information that is given during EE has to be supported by documents after getting invitation. So we just have to trust that CIC officials will be able to tease out fraud documents from real ones (as always).

The logic behind Express entry is that it is a much more efficient process, therefore reducing the processing timeline by a LOT (from many many years to a few months). This change alone should be a positive that trumps all the negatives about the process.

 

[boske83]

I don't think anyone should be worried about frauds. If people were bent on committing fraud, they would do it no matter what the system is. Every information that is given during EE has to be supported by documents after getting invitation. So we just have to trust that CIC officials will be able to tease out fraud documents from real ones (as always).

The logic behind Express entry is that it is a much more efficient process, therefore reducing the processing timeline by a LOT (from many many years to a few months). This change alone should be a positive that trumps all the negatives about the process.

Well, I can agree and disagree with you at the same time... I am a software architect, and one of the most important things when creating SW applications is to prevent frauds - fake identity, fake information, or more serious - to prevent money transaction frauds... leaving the system opened for frauds is not good enough even for college projects - one may do the attack just for fun - it is what people do all the time...
honestly, I believe that CIC hired good contractors to do the job, and that system is secure - i just have doubts in case the very EE profile asks for your individual IELTS marks instead of pulling them from your test ID, or asks for the education level instead of pulling it from WES or other institution based on reference number provided... This is why I ask you - are there any validations, or not?

 

[curious_123]

Dont worry about fraud..yes they can create a fake profile but all CIC have to check is IELTS or ECA and discard the profile immediately....YES we lost a ITA but saved processing time..I am sure CIC will take +50 ITA extra to overcome fraud issue...

 

[namaste]

Well, I can agree and disagree with you at the same time... I am a software architect, and one of the most important things when creating SW applications is to prevent frauds - fake identity, fake information, or more serious - to prevent money transaction frauds... leaving the system opened for frauds is not good enough even for college projects - one may do the attack just for fun - it is what people do all the time...
honestly, I believe that CIC hired good contractors to do the job, and that system is secure - i just have doubts in case the very EE profile asks for your individual IELTS marks instead of pulling them from your test ID, or asks for the education level instead of pulling it from WES or other institution based on reference number provided... This is why I ask you - are there any validations, or not?

I don't understand what you are asking. You are required to put in individual IELTS score along with the IELTS test report information and your degree assessment results along with the WES report details, both of which must be verified at the time of formal application.

 

[boske83]

I don't understand what you are asking. You are required to put in individual IELTS score along with the IELTS test report information and your degree assessment results along with the WES report details, both of which must be verified at the time of formal application.

ok - use case... i am a bad guy...
I create profile, add ielts score per will (all CLB10), and mark my ECA as PhD... also, i add that I have valid LMIA and 28 years, etc, which is not subject now (i am referring only to PAID services such as IELTS and ECA, although LMIA should also be validated - it is issued by same government)...

This means I will have 1000+ score and will take someone's place in next draw... it will last for 60 days until CIC sees the fraud, and discard me from the draw... those 60 days are lost for both Canada and real immigrants...

Curious - i agree that CIC will take some percent as buffer when issuing ITA... however, I fear number of fraud profile may be larger...
My country has 7 milion people... there are almost 50 consultants for Canada immigration here... if I am a consultant, i would have created around 10 profiles - for all classes i am consulting in, and would keep creating in order to stay informed... imagine all the consultants around the world doing the same - this is thousands of fake profiles for every draw, in case ECA and IELTS are not checked at the profile creation time, not after receiving ITA and submitting profile...

 

[curious_123]

ok - use case... i am a bad guy...
I create profile, add ielts score per will (all CLB10), and mark my ECA as PhD... also, i add that I have valid LMIA and 28 years, etc, which is not subject now (i am referring only to PAID services such as IELTS and ECA, although LMIA should also be validated - it is issued by same government)...

This means I will have 1000+ score and will take someone's place in next draw... it will last for 60 days until CIC sees the fraud, and discard me from the draw... those 60 days are lost for both Canada and real immigrants...

Curious - i agree that CIC will take some percent as buffer when issuing ITA... however, I fear number of fraud profile may be larger...
My country has 7 milion people... there are almost 50 consultants for Canada immigration here... if I am a consultant, i would have created around 10 profiles - for all classes i am consulting in, and would keep creating in order to stay informed... imagine all the consultants around the world doing the same - this is thousands of fake profiles for every draw, in case ECA and IELTS are not checked at the profile creation time, not after receiving ITA and submitting profile...


I get what are you trying to say...but what will be the outcome of creating profile.... nothing....say next draw cic got 750 fake profile , either they will set the buffer accordingly OR take some other action...in some cases consultant can be banned ...if we can think this way i am sure CIC have done QA properly...

 

[boske83]

curious - outcome is obstructing Canada's immigration plans, and side-effect is that we - people that wish to immigrate to Canada - are screwed...
I can name dozens of countries that does not like US, and Canada's political positions, and since Canada's economy is dependent on immigration flow - by spoiling it one is doing damage to the state itself...

I know I am a bit paranoid, but I am trying to understand entire system, since I need to plan a future for myself and my family based on that system

to return to the subject - I still believe 440+ will be invited in next few draws

 

[curious_123]

curious - outcome is obstructing Canada's immigration plans, and side-effect is that we - people that wish to immigrate to Canada - are screwed...
I can name dozens of countries that does not like US, and Canada's political positions, and since Canada's economy is dependent on immigration flow - by spoiling it one is doing damage to the state itself...

I know I am a bit paranoid, but I am trying to understand entire system, since I need to plan a future for myself and my family based on that system

to return to the subject - I still believe 440+ will be invited in next few draws

I hope so... PNP is not yet integrated properly...LMIA is yet difficult to get.... hope it will come down to <500

 

[clever]

i have little hope with 436 points because i have neither lmia nor job offer.we will wait and see.maybe end of the year in october or november we could have a chance to get ita.

 

[boske83]

I hope so... PNP is not yet integrated properly...LMIA is yet difficult to get.... hope it will come down to <500

it has to - i mean, only 779 ITAs has been issued, and that is without FSW - FSW cannot get ITA, yet our scores are between 350-480...

I can see PGWP class in bigger danger than FSW now - but we still need to see, maybe Canada closes FSW for this year fully since it solve older applications and CEC... nobody knows

 

[april2014_AINP]

Well, I can agree and disagree with you at the same time... I am a software architect, and one of the most important things when creating SW applications is to prevent frauds - fake identity, fake information, or more serious - to prevent money transaction frauds... leaving the system opened for frauds is not good enough even for college projects - one may do the attack just for fun - it is what people do all the time...
honestly, I believe that CIC hired good contractors to do the job, and that system is secure - i just have doubts in case the very EE profile asks for your individual IELTS marks instead of pulling them from your test ID, or asks for the education level instead of pulling it from WES or other institution based on reference number provided... This is why I ask you - are there any validations, or not?

You have to include your IELTS/CELPIP ID# along with the score. Similarly, you have to include your WES ID# along with the evaluation. So CIC just has to link to the IELTS and WES organizers to validate these scores and identities (identities i.e. passport number is asked in EE profile as well as in WES, IELTS, CELPIP etc). This linking can be easily done by the government of any country.

Another issue is the 600 points for nomination. The system asks you if you have a nomination. Whoever wants to misrepresent can say 'yes' to this question. But after that this person's nomination has to be confirmed by the province directly to CIC. Which means the province has to directly talk to / email CIC. Only when this confirmation is done, people get 600 points. So again, misrepresentation is not possible here.

I don't know how LMIA works. But I think something similar like the language thing.

So I think there's a very slim chance of misrepresenting your nomination, language or education.

 

[boske83]

You have to include your IELTS/CELPIP ID# along with the score. Similarly, you have to include your WES ID# along with the evaluation. So CIC just has to link to the IELTS and WES organizers to validate these scores and identities (identities i.e. passport number is asked in EE profile as well as in WES, IELTS, CELPIP etc). This linking can be easily done by the government of any country.

Another issue is the 600 points for nomination. The system asks you if you have a nomination. Whoever wants to misrepresent can say 'yes' to this question. But after that this person's nomination has to be confirmed by the province directly to CIC. Which means the province has to directly talk to / email CIC. Only when this confirmation is done, people get 600 points. So again, misrepresentation is not possible here.

I don't know how LMIA works. But I think something similar like the language thing.

So I think there's a very slim chance of misrepresenting your nomination, language or education.

Well - is it linked, or not? I know it CAN be done, but is it done already? Do you receive language and education points based on your input, or on feedback from the relevant institutions based on your ielts id and wes id?

 

[Natali14]

I have been qualify to apply under CEC and FSW with 443 points, NOC type A and I didn't get the ITA. Just to let you know that the first round wasn't mostly for CEC. It was clearly all about LMIA as probably there wasn't many PNP for the first round as well. But I think they will probably have the same approach for the first few rounds, because they know people who don't have LMIA have better chances in first few rounds as it might take a few months for people who are in the process of getting LMIA. Once they made sure they give ITA to whoever has the LMIA they will lower the cut off score!or at least that is what I am hoping to happen!! :'( ???

Anyways, does anyone know if I should have a valid work permit to be able to convince an employer for LMIA? I have a post-graduation work permit which is valid until Nov, but I have started school on Jan and therefore I also have a study permit. But under my study permit I won't be able to work full time. I am thinking if that is possible to start looking for a job using my work permit and quit the school if I found one, but I am afraid if I loose my study permit and not find a job then I will have to leave the country on Nov. Any idea?

 

[naticom]

You guys worried too much, 400+ are rather high scores.

Of course, we all want to get our visas ASAP, but there is huge amount of FSW014 applicants. If I am CIC VO and want to reduce the complexity of case processing, I would definitely select only few applicants in the first several months, maybe until May(just my guess). Remember, every year FSW starts from May, and I believe they would not want too many FSW2014 backlogs. Once they have cleared most 2014 applicant, say 80%, they will issue more ITAs. Be patient.