Another sad story - TRV denied - devastated. Asking for advice.

[starseed35]

Hello all,

Recently, my boyfriend applied for a TRV to visit Canada this December, in time for the Christmas holidays. I am a Canadian citizen living in Malaysia, and he is Malaysian. As you all know, the visa application is onerous, at best. It took us weeks to gather all of the paperwork needed for his application and trust me, we couldn't have tried any harder.

The reasons his visa application was rejected are as follows:

- you have not satisfied me that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay (despite both my boyfriend and I submitting my work visa from Malaysia, employments letters stating that we both needed to return to Malaysia by January 5th at the latest, my housing rental contract, bonuses promised to us from our employers in early 2015, etc. We would definitely return to Malaysia.)

- your travel history (he lost his old passport (which was expired) but we listed the countries he has visited in the past and has obviously returned to Malaysia afterwards) His current passport is new this year, and only has one stamp in it - visiting Indonesia, of which of course he returned to Malaysia afterwards.

- purpose of visit (???? - we clearly stated we were going to Canada to visit my family and friends and for the Christmas holidays, of which, my entire family is rarely together - this would have been the first year we would have been all together in a long time.) We also submitted a detailed itinerary of what we planned on doing each day while in Canada for the month of December. My parents provided invitation letters, as did I, explaining that while I was a Canadian citizen, I resided in Malaysia and was inviting him to fly to and fro with me. The purpose of visit is clear - tourism and to visit my family! What more do they want?

- your current employment situation (my boyfriend provided salary slips, bank statements and an employment letter explaining that he has been employed at a law firm for the last 2 years.) What more do they need?

- your personal assets and financial status (he provided his bank records, salary slips and has enough money to support himself while in Canada. Our housing and food would have been taken care of by my family, as we would stay with them.)

We are absolutely devastated. As I mentioned earlier, this would have been the first Christmas in ages that my entire family would be able to spend together in many years. My parents were looking forward to meeting my boyfriend, as we are eventually planning on marrying in Malaysia. He is educated, employed, and has no criminal history or ties - he is actually an upstanding member of his community.

I feel ashamed that my country has denied him a tourist visa to visit Canada, and on such vague grounds.

The CIC website says not to re-apply, unless your situation has changed substantially. I'm asking for your advice - do you have any ideas on how to improve his chances of having his visa approved? I don't know how to make his purpose of travel more clear! Their denial will absolutely ruin my holidays, my family's (as we will not be going obviously if he doesn't have a visa), and his, as he's already been granted time off work. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Jalex23]

Recently, my boyfriend applied for a TRV to visit Canada this December, in time for the Christmas holidays. I am a Canadian citizen living in Malaysia, and he is Malaysian. As you all know, the visa application is onerous, at best. It took us weeks to gather all of the paperwork needed for his application and trust me, we couldn't have tried any harder.

Even though I can see many assumptions that are not exactly correct I can't find a specific reason for refusal. My guess would be that none of the arguments were strong enough, so fixing many might help. I am going to point some that will hopefully help you approach all this differently.

I see that you submitted lots of documents that were not needed (like your work permit). It is ok if you want to send them as support documentation but you must remember it is him who has to show proof by himself that he will indeed visit and return. Make sure you are not "making up" for lack of his documentation. Many times people send a lot of unrequested/uneeded documents and think that would make up for not so strong documents for the applicant. For example, it is much better to send a good employment letter stating dates, salary, etc. from the applicant than two vague and "generic" employment letter of both.

- you have not satisfied me that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay (despite both my boyfriend and I submitting my work visa from Malaysia, employments letters stating that we both needed to return to Malaysia by January 5th at the latest, my housing rental contract, bonuses promised to us from our employers in early 2015, etc. We would definitely return to Malaysia.)

For how long was the requested visit? Most of the times more than 2 weeks can be trouble.

- your travel history (he lost his old passport (which was expired) but we listed the countries he has visited in the past and has obviously returned to Malaysia afterwards) His current passport is new this year, and only has one stamp in it - visiting Indonesia, of which of course he returned to Malaysia afterwards.

It is not about how often he travels, it is about the countries he has travelled to and the length of those visits.

For example, visits to USA, to Europe, etc. those count a lot more than travels to Indonesia. Also if he requested 4 weeks then he needs to show trips to places that requiere visas for a similar length.

- purpose of visit (???? - we clearly stated we were going to Canada to visit my family and friends and for the Christmas holidays, of which, my entire family is rarely together - this would have been the first year we would have been all together in a long time.) We also submitted a detailed itinerary of what we planned on doing each day while in Canada for the month of December. My parents provided invitation letters, as did I, explaining that while I was a Canadian citizen, I resided in Malaysia and was inviting him to fly to and fro with me. The purpose of visit is clear - tourism and to visit my family! What more do they want?

Your parents letters were not that important. They don't know him, there is no relationship. Your invitation is also not so strong, the invitation letter has to come from someone from within Canada to be a strong argument.

I think you can't do much here so better focus on the other points.

- your current employment situation (my boyfriend provided salary slips, bank statements and an employment letter explaining that he has been employed at a law firm for the last 2 years.) What more do they need?

What's his situation? Is it a contract? partial? full time? All these are important. Also if it is a good job it would be hard to justify a three week (or more) vacation. If so it is better that the company writes that in his employment letter, that this is out of the ordinary leave. Usually a work that is GOOD and CAN BE CONSIDERED A TIE won't give more than 2 weeks in a row for vacation.

- your personal assets and financial status (he provided his bank records, salary slips and has enough money to support himself while in Canada. Our housing and food would have been taken care of by my family, as we would stay with them.)

1K per week of stay. If this was shown then little can be done here. It is not enough that "your parents will take care" he has to show he can survive and return to his country on his own.

 

[steaky]

I see that you submitted lots of documents that were not needed (like your work permit). It is ok if you want to send them as support documentation but you must remember it is him who has to show proof by himself that he will indeed visit and return. Make sure you are not "making up" for lack of his documentation. Many times people send a lot of unrequested/uneeded documents and think that would make up for not so strong documents for the applicant. For example, it is much better to send a good employment letter stating dates, salary, etc. from the applicant than two vague and "generic" employment letter of both.

OP said she is a Canadian citizen living in Malaysia. By submitting her Canadian passport copy would actually help the case. Also, ask the Canadian parents to send the invitation letter mentioning they will meet him, taking him around, etc.

 

[Jalex23]

OP said she is a Canadian citizen living in Malaysia. By submitting her Canadian passport copy would actually help the case. Also, ask the Canadian parents to send the invitation letter mentioning they will meet him, taking him around, etc.

I would think the same, but from stories here it seems this doesn't help too much. Many Canadians go abroad, get a partner (or at least that is what they claim) and then try to "import" them to Canada using their papers. CIC doesn't like that as many cases have risen about frauds. I agree it is more in male Canadians and that we shouldn't make so extreme analogies.

That is why I said that. Maybe you are right though, so to leave it open I said this is OK as long as it is not trying to compensate for a lack of papers on his side.

 

[mikeymyke]

I can understand the travel history as being a reason for refusal, as he lost his passport. A passport is the only official document that can show how long a person stayed in a country and if he/she overstayed. Listing countries where he's been does not prove if he overstayed or not, and does not prove if he was given a visa to enter, etc.

Purpose of visit: You seemed to have done your homework on this one, providing detailed descriptions of what you will do each day, invitation letters, etc. Don't know what to say, maybe CIC got it wrong on this one.

Employment situation: You did everything right, except maybe should've provided income tax return or something to show his yearly salary. He could be a lawyer in a law firm, or a receptionist at a law firm.

Financial and personal assets: Should show proof of ownership of a house, business, etc back in Malaysia, which you don't seem to have. Should show at least $1000/week of stay in Canada in bank account. The money should belong only to him, and no one should be depositing money into his account or lending him any money. Also have to remember to account for cost of plane ticket.

CIC only needs one or two failed criteria to reject an applicant, and unfortunately, I think your husband fails on at least 2 out of 4 things. I don't think you can do anything about the travel history thing if he lost his passport and cannot prove he got valid visas to enter countries and left without overstaying.

 

[starseed35]

Thank you all so much for your comments and suggestions. I really appreciate it and am humbled by the kindness and generosity of strangers who take the time to help and advise others they've never met. :-*

In the past, I've applied for and successfully been granted tourist visas in advance to some fairly difficult nations such as Vietnam, India, Russia, China, Myanmar, and even North Korea - and NONE of the applications required to enter these countries were even 1/4 as difficult as what the CIC asks for, even though I grumbled about it at the time! The Malaysian-Canadian relationship is not even close to being a reciprocal one ... Canadians are granted 90 days on arrival, while Malaysians have to jump through all sorts of hoops to visit Canada, not to mention how intrusive the entire process is. I was also surprised at his denial with Malaysia being part of the Commonwealth and a fairly major oil partner to Canada. I feel ashamed by this process and it's really hard on a relationship when your partner's nation flat out denies holiday entry based on what I feel is totally vague and arbitrary criteria. We just want to go for a bloody visit! :'(

I've been told above that perhaps non of the arguments were strong enough ... we don't really have a stronger argument - we simply want to go back to my country to visit my family, friends, do a little sightseeing and enjoy Christmas with my family! Why else other than these reasons listed above would one want to visit Canada? Would the CIC rather let in a solo traveler who has no invitation to the country, friends, family, no plans to sightsee or business to conduct???

His employment letter was perfect and included a detailed description about his position as a paralegal, including salary, working hours (he is a F/T salaried employee of the law firm), start date, time off granted, etc, etc. My parents still live in Canada and own a spacious home there. They mentioned in their invitation letter that they would have plenty of time to show my boyfriend around Alberta, the Rocky Mountains, etc. My boyfriend included his salary slips, bank slips, a copy of pension accumulated over the years, etc. Again, we were as thorough as possible in his application. He doesn't have a lot of ties to Malaysia, such as property, but his family is here who he is close to, he is a working and educated professional, he has a vehicle, etc. Surely the CIC doesn't only allow home-owners with $100 000/year salaries to enter Canada for a holiday!? I know of a male Malaysian who works on one of the islands in Malaysia as a musician who started dating a girl from Canada. He was granted TRV's to Canada twice in the past and how he did this, is beyond me - he had no fixed address, no salary slips and likely not even a bank account. He simply worked on the beach, playing music! But the CIC doesn't deem my boyfriend as a credible visitor who will leave at the end of his stay? I just don't understand and it's really hard not to take this personally. :'(

A few more questions for you all. Normally, I would just leave it as I'm so devastated and angry at the denial, but as I mentioned before, this will be the first Christmas my entire family will be together and it's really important that we can join. Do you think it would help to include the following if we do decide to re-apply:

- do you know if the CIC/visa office in Singapore were supposed to have returned my boyfriend's documents to us along with his denial letter? It would have really helped if they did, should we want to reapply. Collecting all of those documents from the bank, work etc took ages.

- a letter from my boyfriend's boss stating that my boyfriend will be receiving a sizable bonus this coming January? (ie., - incentive to return to Malaysia) Also, I will be receiving a very large bonus next September that I would not forgo by staying in Canada. Surely the CIC might consider that it's highly unlikely that my boyfriend would overstay his visa without me in the country?

- I know a few of you said that my supporting documents don't hold as much weight as his do, but would it be worth mentioning that I have lived in Asia continuously for 10 years now, and only return to Canada every few years to visit? While I love my country, the climate just doesn't agree with me and I have no plans to resettle in Canada in the near future.

- The length of time he applied for to visit Canada was approximately 4 weeks. My job in Malaysia follows the school holidays, so I am granted time off from late November until January. My boyfriend normally is granted about 3 weeks a year off work paid, but his boss suggested that since we were traveling so far, maybe he should stay for a month and make the most of it. The extra time off granted would have been unpaid, but like I said, it was his boss' suggestion and of course we'd love to visit longer than a few weeks.

A few of you mentioned that anything over two weeks might seem a little fishy to the CIC. While it would kill me to stay in Canada for less than the time we have been granted off, do you think it would really help our case if we cut the trip down to 2 weeks? It's just that there are no direct flights from Malaysia and the trek home is absolutely exhausting - the last time I went back to Canada, I was in transit for 39 hours with all of the connections and stop-overs. Jet lag generally takes me about a week to get over. I feel that by the time we got over jet lag and be able to enjoy ourselves, it'd be time to return to Malaysia again. Anyhow, do you think trimming the trip down to two weeks would massively help his case?

- As for the flight - we have a few options. We almost bought a return flight before applying for the visa (I really didn't expect any problems but really glad we didn't!) just to show the CIC we already had a non-refundable return flight purchased. Our other, and more money saavy routes depend on points. First off, we have enough points accumulated on our credit card to fly us both back to Canada and would only need to pay the flight tax. In addition, my father is an airline employee and we always have the option of flying standby on his passes. Should my boyfriend mention this in his cover letter in case the CIC is wondering how we will pay for flights? Or would this work against him for some reason?

Thank you again for your responses. I definitely plan on paying it forward.

 

[steaky]

Do you mean that you didn't make any copies of the supporting documents (such as work and bank documents)? If you didn't, you should do that next time! I don't think they are suppose to return the documents.

The bonus letter doesn't mean anything. Can't a person receive that bonus when making frequent multiple trips between Canada and Malaysia?

Your boyfriend shouldn't buy the plane ticket BEFORE the visa is issued. This would be wasted if the visa is refused again.

 

[tlbeis]

Correct, we didn't make copies of the supporting documents and I'm kicking myself now. I really didn't expect that the visa would be denied. Lesson learned.

As for the bonus letters ... we weren't planning on making frequent trips between Canada and Malaysia - just the one, home for the Christmas holidays. He was a applying for a single entry visa. I would think that if the CIC could see that he has a bonus coming his way in January/February of 2015, he would be very likely to return on the date we had listed we would (December 31, 2014.) His boss wouldn't pay out the bonus in February if he didn't return from his holidays in December.

Does anybody think it would be helpful to reapply with the bonus letter? And to cut the trip down to 2 weeks?

 

[mikeymyke]

Hey I noticed you changed your username?

I think cutting the trip to 2 weeks would help, despite CIC not refusing you because of the length of proposed stay because then he won't have to bring as much money, so then he'd be more likely to satisfy the financial part of the application.

 

[Leon]

It can be very difficult sometimes for fiancés and spouses of Canadians to get visit visas in some countries. I remember a Canadian woman on this forum who lived in Thailand and had been living there for years. Her husband was repeatedly refused a TRV to come visit her family in Canada even though their life and jobs were in Thailand and they had absolutely no plans to move. Eventually she was forced to sponsor him for PR even though that is not what they wanted.

Just to say, immigration doesn't have anything against you or your boyfriend personally, it is just not easy for spouses to get a visit visa because immigration tends to think that they are not just planning on visiting.

 

[mikeymyke]

Yes that's true as well, sometimes people get rejected simply for no good reason. I remember reading a post a few months ago how this guy on a student visa wanted to invite his dad over for his graduation. They refused the dad, saying that his son is graduating with an engineering degree, which will likely give him a high paying job that can support his father long term should the father decide to illegally stay in Canada. I even read the GCMS notes. Absolutely ludicrous.

Also they stated the father's job prospects are poor in India because his salary is low, but he's a manager of a company with 200 employees, earning the equivalent of $60K CDN a year, which is almost 30 times the average salary of an Indian citizen, and almost higher than the average salary of a Canadian, lol.

 

[torontob]

Yes that's true as well, sometimes people get rejected simply for no good reason. I remember reading a post a few months ago how this guy on a student visa wanted to invite his dad over for his graduation. They refused the dad, saying that his son is graduating with an engineering degree, which will likely give him a high paying job that can support his father long term should the father decide to illegally stay in Canada. I even read the GCMS notes. Absolutely ludicrous.

Also they stated the father's job prospects are poor in India because his salary is low, but he's a manager of a company with 200 employees, earning the equivalent of $60K CDN a year, which is almost 30 times the average salary of an Indian citizen, and almost higher than the average salary of a Canadian, lol.

How do you obtain GCMS notes? Are these the online ATIP requests or in paper format? Is there a difference between the two?

Thanks,

 

[mikeymyke]

How do you obtain GCMS notes? Are these the online ATIP requests or in paper format? Is there a difference between the two?

Thanks,

Yes you can get them in paper or online, but always get them online, they're way faster and they won't delay your application.

Here's how

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_E_dq_uLVo

 

[starseed35]

Thanks for this. I wasn't familiar with GCMS notes. Would it be beneficial for us to order a copy, or is it only for those applying for permanent residency in Canada?

 

[mikeymyke]

It can be used for anything. You can order it and they will tell you why they refused your trv