Am I Really Not a Citizen?

[weofikl]

I am an American born in 1983 in the US to a mother who was born in the US to Canadian parents. My mother born in 1957 did not realize until recently she was a citizen. Now she is applying for her certificate. It says on the cic.gc.ca site that since she didn't register her citizenship until after 2009 I am "probably" not a citizen.

I can't find in the citizenship law defining exactly what registration is. In the US, if you are a citizen, then you are a citizen whether you want to be or not, and whether you register at the consulate or not. This is very strange wording, and highly confusing. Is there any way forward from this situation?

---------------

Secondly, there is a strange absurdity I found in the recent nationality law changes. It seem that adult adoption confers citizenship. Would it not be possible for my own mother to adopt me to become a citizen?

I can't find anywhere in Canadian law where someone can officially disown a parent, but it definitely is possible to be adopted by someone else, and to have this adoption confer all rights to that person. If my own mother can't adopt me, and I can't disown her, then I could in theory divorce my wife, be adopted by her, and then have my biological mother adopt me. I wish I were taking the mickey, but this appears to be possible.

Failing that to avoid a 6 year wait, would it not be possible for my wife who has no connection to Canada whatsoever be adopted by my mother, become Canadian, and then invite me as a spouse?

Any help here is appreciated. My wife, who is Russian and American scores 95/100 on the immigration test. We can live in Canada via that, but I have a Canadian accent, play hockey, and have deep connections to Canada, yet do not qualify via points.

 

[scylla]

- You are not a citizen since you are the second generation born abroad. If your mother had been born in Canada, you would be a citizen. Since she was born outside of Canada, you are not.
- Your mother cannot adopt your wife to grant her citizenship since the following requirement hasn't been met: "provided the adoptive parent acted as the individual’s parent before he or she was 18"
- While adoption by your mother may be legally possible, I'm quite certain CIC will state this is an adoption of convenience entered into solely for the purpose of gaining an immigration benefit and citizenship will be refused.
- Yes, you need to qualify to immigrate through one of Canada's immigration programs. Once you are a PR and have sufficient residency days in Canada, you will qualify to apply for citizenship.

 

[figaro2]

IF you apply throught entry express you are not going to wait a long periode to gain your residency because you have canadian origins and because your wife has good scoring. Try to apply and see.

 

[weofikl]

"provided the adoptive parent acted as the individual’s parent before he or she was 18"
- While adoption by your mother may be legally possible, I'm quite certain CIC will state this is an adoption of convenience entered into solely for the purpose of gaining an immigration benefit and

Do you have a link to statute stating this? I don't see this specific line. I see this here:

B. Citizenship to Adopted Children at Least 18 Years of Age
As discussed earlier, Bill C-14 grants a right of citizenship to a person at least 18 years of age who is adopted abroad by a Canadian citizen, subject to certain conditions. In such cases, there must have been a genuine parent and child relationship before the person attained 18 years of age as well as at the time of the adoption. The bill also requires that the last two requirements of a minor adoption be fulfilled (see section A, above). "

lop.parl.gc.ca/About/Parliament/LegislativeSummaries/bills_ls.asp?lang=E&ls=c14&Parl=39&Ses=1&source=library_prb#bcitizenship


Having a denial on discretionary grounds is seomwhat good, it means I could appeal. Spending $300 to be instantly told no without any grounds or caselaw seems like a bad gamble. It's not really a matter of convenience, it's a matter of the law. The law already screwed me over it seems in 2009 for no reason at all. I live near the border. There were zero ethnic and cultural differences defined by the border growing up.

We probably wouldn't move to Canada without me being a citizen. I have some medium term employment opportunities via my friends. No sense in going through lots of hoops only to lose the visa investment because I move in 2 years. Citizenship I definitely feel I should be entitled to, especially given the intent of the law.

At the very least here, I would like to nail down some better arguments to help fight the commies in the NDP. All of the American's who said they'd leave cause of Trump are becoming quite cantankerous since they refuse to leave. I want away from them. ;-)

 

[alphazip]

I can't find in the citizenship law defining exactly what registration is."

Registration was the process by which the child, born abroad, of a Canadian citizen was registered with Canadian officials, thereby also becoming a Canadian citizen. This requirement is spelled out in the original Citizenship Act, which took effect on January 1, 1947. This requirement was abolished as of February 15, 1977, but applied to anyone born between 1947 and 1977.

Your mother could have registered her birth on her own, between 1977 and 2004, if she had known of that possibility. As things stand, though, she did not gain Canadian citizenship until April 17, 2009.

 

[alphazip]

At the very least here, I would like to nail down some better arguments to help fight the commies in the NDP. All of the American's who said they'd leave cause of Trump are becoming quite cantankerous since they refuse to leave. I want away from them. ;-)

I was somewhat interested in your case before reading the above. We don't need another Trump supporter here.

 

[scylla]

Do you have a link to statute stating this? I don't see this specific line. I see this here:

It's here:

http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/About/Parliament/LegislativeSummaries/bills_ls.asp?ls=c18&Parl=37&Ses=2

Bill C-18 also includes a provision that was not in its predecessors regarding persons adopted as adults (clause 9(2)). The bill grants a right of citizenship to someone over 18 years of age who is adopted by a Canadian citizen provided the adoptive parent acted as the individual’s parent before he or she was 18. The adoption must also meet the other criteria listed above.


It also says the same thing in the very words you quoted:

B. Citizenship to Adopted Children at Least 18 Years of Age
As discussed earlier, Bill C-14 grants a right of citizenship to a person at least 18 years of age who is adopted abroad by a Canadian citizen, subject to certain conditions. In such cases, there must have been a genuine parent and child relationship before the person attained 18 years of age as well as at the time of the adoption. The bill also requires that the last two requirements of a minor adoption be fulfilled (see section A, above). "

lop.parl.gc.ca/About/Parliament/LegislativeSummaries/bills_ls.asp?lang=E&ls=c14&Parl=39&Ses=1&source=library_prb#bcitizenship

 

[screech339]

I was somewhat interested in your case before reading the above. We don't need another Trump supporter here.

Neither do we need another anti-trump supporter here too who wants to move to Canada because they didn't like the election results. Whatever happened to all the anti-Bush movement to Canada.

 

[alphazip]

Neither do we need another anti-trump supporter here too who wants to move to Canada because they didn't like the election results. Whatever happened to all the anti-Bush movement to Canada.

I moved here during the Bush era, and definitely glad I did! Maybe there should be some movement in the other direction...Canadians who hate Trudeau and love Trump moving to the USA. The only thing stopping them seems to be that they probably don't qualify for entry.

 

[scylla]

We probably wouldn't move to Canada without me being a citizen. I have some medium term employment opportunities via my friends. No sense in going through lots of hoops only to lose the visa investment because I move in 2 years. Citizenship I definitely feel I should be entitled to, especially given the intent of the law.

Sounds like you'll be staying in the US then. Guess Russia is also an option (through your wife) if you can't stand the US.

 

[links18]

Sounds like you'll be staying in the US then. Guess Russia is also an option (through your wife) if you can't stand the US.

Or just hack a US government computer and he might qualify for asylum in Russia. ;D

 

[links18]

I moved here during the Bush era, and definitely glad I did! Maybe there should be some movement in the other direction...Canadians who hate Trudeau and love Trump moving to the USA. The only thing stopping them seems to be that they probably don't qualify for entry.

I am all for the Alberexit..... 8)

 

[weofikl]

I was somewhat interested in your case before reading the above. We don't need another Trump supporter here.

Your answer is appreciated, but I never said I supported Trump. I took a shot at the American celebrity circlejerk and the quite regressive NDP.

 

[itsmyid]

I am an American born in 1983 in the US to a mother who was born in the US to Canadian parents. My mother born in 1957 did not realize until recently she was a citizen. Now she is applying for her certificate. It says on the cic.gc.ca site that since she didn't register her citizenship until after 2009 I am "probably" not a citizen.

I can't find in the citizenship law defining exactly what registration is. In the US, if you are a citizen, then you are a citizen whether you want to be or not, and whether you register at the consulate or not. This is very strange wording, and highly confusing. Is there any way forward from this situation?

---------------

Secondly, there is a strange absurdity I found in the recent nationality law changes. It seem that adult adoption confers citizenship. Would it not be possible for my own mother to adopt me to become a citizen?

I can't find anywhere in Canadian law where someone can officially disown a parent, but it definitely is possible to be adopted by someone else, and to have this adoption confer all rights to that person. If my own mother can't adopt me, and I can't disown her, then I could in theory divorce my wife, be adopted by her, and then have my biological mother adopt me. I wish I were taking the mickey, but this appears to be possible.

Failing that to avoid a 6 year wait, would it not be possible for my wife who has no connection to Canada whatsoever be adopted by my mother, become Canadian, and then invite me as a spouse?

Any help here is appreciated. My wife, who is Russian and American scores 95/100 on the immigration test. We can live in Canada via that, but I have a Canadian accent, play hockey, and have deep connections to Canada, yet do not qualify via points.

I don't think you will get much sympathy here in this forum, sounds like neither you nor your mother ever lived in Canada and paid any Canadian taxes ... and you are at a forum where people get condemned for being Canadian of convenience even though they have to live here and pay tax for at least 4 years before they earn their citizenship

 

[weofikl]

It's here:

lop.parl.gc.ca/About/Parliament/LegislativeSummaries/bills_ls.asp?ls=c18&Parl=37&Ses=2

Bill C-18 also includes a provision that was not in its predecessors regarding persons adopted as adults (clause 9(2)). The bill grants a right of citizenship to someone over 18 years of age who is adopted by a Canadian citizen provided the adoptive parent acted as the individual’s parent before he or she was 18. The adoption must also meet the other criteria listed above.


It also says the same thing in the very words you quoted:

B. Citizenship to Adopted Children at Least 18 Years of Age
As discussed earlier, Bill C-14 grants a right of citizenship to a person at least 18 years of age who is adopted abroad by a Canadian citizen, subject to certain conditions. In such cases, there must have been a genuine parent and child relationship before the person attained 18 years of age as well as at the time of the adoption. The bill also requires that the last two requirements of a minor adoption be fulfilled (see section A, above). "

lop.parl.gc.ca/About/Parliament/LegislativeSummaries/bills_ls.asp?lang=E&ls=c14&Parl=39&Ses=1&source=library_prb#bcitizenship

It might mean the same thing in practice, but it's not the same thing in logic. There are two things it states, one, my mother acted as a parent. She did. Secondly, there would be a genuine parent child relationship. There wouldn't be if I disown her, but there would be once she reowns me via adoption. This seems to blow a hole in my mother adopting my wife only.

If anyone knows an example of an adult adoption confering citizenship, I would love to see the details.

---------------------------

I'm sorry to derail with the political shots, just trying to make light of the absolutely stupid politics in this citizenship law. It's on both Labour and the Conservatives. It's not really a partisan thing. Canada's dysfunctional government is really apparent when it comes to not being part of the Apostille Convention. It makes life a nightmare for Canadians in Europe. There are so many things the government could be doing in the citizenship area, but it screwed it all up. I'm really surprised they went as far to screw actual Canadians, and did nothing to stop jus soli.

I still can't find any reference to the application of the word registration in the law. I think I'd wager my $300 on a consultation with a lawyer at this point for the adoption angle.

I do like the hypothetical angle of the adoption. My parents are lawyers, so I'm certain I can be disowned in the US before coming.