ALL SPOUSE APPEAL CASES COME HERE AND JOIN US PLZ

[SenoritaBella]

Miss Dominica, so sorry to hear you went through this. It's good that you want to appeal, but more important to focus on what you really want. Do you want to satisfy the ADR people and get your husband approved or fight this battle against the visa officer? You will find that if you focus on the latter, it will make you angry and your demeanor may turn off the ADR people.

If I were you, I would appeal and focus on overcoming whatever the issues were even the ones you think are lies. Don't call her a liar, etc - that is a battle for another day. Once you get your husband approved and settled, turn your attention to the visa officer. This may be hard to hear, but once they write something, it can not be 'erased' per se. What you can do however, is provide more information to overcome them such that another officer then becomes satisfied with your proof.

The concern I would have regarding your case is this - did you guys plan to get married at some point anyway or are you guys going to do it now because this officer said so? I'm asking because you could win ADR but then another officer sees the marriage itself as done purposely for this process. So you don't want to get into a catch 22 is what I'm saying. Also get more proof of your common-law relationship.

Once your husband is approved, you can write a very detailed complaint about this officer and point out all the inconsistencies. Be constructive in your criticism, but state how it affected you guys emotionally, financially, etc. I would mentioned that applicants are asked to be truthful but it doesn't seem to apply to the officers who are to uphold the law, etc.
Also mention what you would like to see happen such as all interviews should be recorded by video and audio. This would ensure both the officer and applicant(s) are on their best behavior and minimizes the chances of such inconsistencies. Also, an officer could refer to the answers later and submit this video/audio evidence during the appeals process.

Do you have her name or know her unique identifying number from your GCMS notes? Don't slander her or call her names - just explain your experience with her. Send a copy to the Minister of Immigration, your MP's office and the Prime Minister's office by mail with a tracking number. Wait a few weeks, if you don't hear back, send them again. It will get someone's attention and the fact that you would have taken time to do this and be persistent, would let them know you are not going away until it's addressed. You may never know what happens to that officer(whether she is disciplined or not) but be rest assured you would have done your part.

I have had bad experiences(not with CIC) but I have found in Canada, you have to master the art of complaining to get desired results. I hope it all works out for you. Sending hugs your way.

 

[MissDominica]

Hi Senorita Bella,

Thank you for responding! To answer your question, I want BOTH lol. I would love for hubby to win ADR AND to get this officer punished. However, I doubt either will happen.

The problem is.. we can't GET any more proof of common-law. We l.i.t.e.r.a.l.l.y. submitted everything with the original application (leases, receipts, joint accounts with same address, letters to our joint address, pictures of us at the same apartment doing every day things like cooking, etc). We do not have a single piece of extra proof. When we were called for the interview for extra proof.. we were like... uhm.. you have a billion items.. and we didn't have anything else. So we brought the originals of everything we sent AND we got our landlords (husband and wife) AND our only neighbour to write notarized letters attesting to our common-law status (this was the only thing we could add to everything we sent it). They dismissed them by saying that the landlord COULD be aiding us. And "question" as to whether all letters were aiding. So I don't see how we could really "win" on ADR without having ANY other proof and her unproven accusations all over our interview notes. If we had some extra proof of CL laying around somewhere to help convince someone, we would have found it by now.

So my guess is we will have to re-apply as married. Yes, we mentioned in our original application that we were considering marrying but NOT UNTIL we got to Canada because my mom can't fly and I have 2 terminally ill family members that I wanted to be at the wedding. We said we applied common-law because we were currently as committed as any married couple and we are not religious, so living together before marriage was not a big deal to us. We said that we were in no rush to get married and wanted to do it in Canada for our families so they could be there. However, now that we've been denied, and hubby has 2 TRV denials to visit me in Canada already, there is no way of doing this. So we will have to marry in his country (not that marrying in the Caribbean is BAD lol.. but it's not what we wanted).

I do not know the officers name and hubby can't remember. I have a description of her.. but it's .. ahem.. not one I would say out loud (if you don't have anything nice to say...).



So I guess I'm really at the crossroads of:

1) Appeal to have it on record that we don't agree with the decision. Although, the officers notes (untrue, but un-eraseable as you said) and the fact that we have no un-submitted proof of common-law will probably mean we lose.. but at least we show that we are not accepting the negative decision and untrue stuff..

OR..

2) Do not appeal. Marry (the earliest I can see me being able to do that in the Caribbean would be spring at the earliest) and re-apply. Then have a 2nd wedding in Canada for my family/mom that cant come to the Caribbean. Re-apply and include a letter stating that we didn't appeal because we felt that the way the case was handled set us up for denial even on appeal and had submitted all of our proof. Also state that we married (differently than planned) because hubby cannot get a TRV to come to Canada and will have a second wedding in Canada later on. And since the officer had the decency to at least say she thought the relationship was genuine in her notes, I don't think they would say we married for immigration because it's obvious that she sees we are a real couple (not one just trying to get a visa).

Thoughts?

 

[waitingonforever]

Hello All,

I just received an AOR from the IAD...whew how confusing...has anyone gone to an ADR and won without a Lawyer? TOTALLY CONFUSED

 

[Hina 123]

Check my threads the usual non genuine :'( We have 10 years together :'(

Hey Double Rainbow.i hope u r good .. i wana ask u some quries plz dear help me n guide me .. ur case is from vancouvre right ! Can u plz tel me total appeal time of vanvoure. Im totaly dead dear :'( :'( :'(.. time is realy killing me silently......my appeal started from April 2013 n received bluebook in september end .i dont know how much more time i have to wait....canadian embasy already spoiled our precious 4 years :'(

 

[harryiswaiting]

Really sorry to hear of your misfortune, MissDominica. They really can be aholes at these embassies, and it seems a common theme on this thread of rejected cases that these VO lie in their notes to prove their case. In our notes, it was as if the VO and my husband weren't even in the same interview!! I think it must be part of their training or something to lie like this. Not to mention, the VO was incredibly rude to my husband. He kept interrupting and even tapping his watch! We surely will complain about this to embassy and my MP once he is here. He also denied us as a common-law couple, saying we didn't meet the requirements, but on top of that he threw in that we weren't a genuine couple either!!

Anyhow, my lawyer told me they don't like it when they're processing a common-law relationship app and you're not living together. In our case, she said that we should file an appeal mainly because he said we weren't genuine and say if we re-applied as a married couple, it still would be on our file as 'not-genuine', even though we met the 'legal requirement', so basically this was something we had to disprove.

I strongly suggest you go and talk to a good immigration lawyer. Even if it's just for a consultation, which they usually charge a little less for than their hourly rate. They can answer a lot of your questions. Be quick though, because you only have 30 days after the rejection to file the appeal, if you choose to. I also think you and your partner need to sit down right away and write out an EXACT transcript of how the interview went, according to him. This could be really important to have in the future for your appeal.

Anyhow, my answers to your questions are below (at least what I could!).

Hello everyone,

Some questions I have about the appeal process:

1) If we appeal and go do ADR hearing (I would go, as I am the sponsor), what decides where it is held (I am from Nova Scotia) and what is the wait time? Sorry, I don't know. I think MicMac is from NB, ask them.

2) If we decided to appeal, the office sends our copy of our application to us - are you ever "locked into" an appeal? For example, we decide to appeal because of how poorly our case was handled, go to ADR, lose and don't want to wait for a full hearing.. can we pull out and just re-apply if it will be faster? Or are we locked into the full appeal process as soon as we decide to appeal? You are never 'locked-in' to an appeal. you can always withdraw your case and get a refund at any time. It's likely an appeal and even an ADR, especially in NB could take longer than re-applying.

3) If I represent myself for ADR, is there any cost (other than travelling and preparing my own documents) for appeal? No.

4) Even if we lose our appeal or withdraw, are the notes of our appeal added to our original file? This depends. If you have an ADR, they cannot use the new notes in your case. If you have a full-hearing, then yes.

5) Is there any way to have a statement added to our original file without going to appeal? We have a cheaper/faster shot at being together by marrying and re-applying but we also don't want the lies written in our original application to go un-responded to by us - as we are afraid it will look like an admission of guilt if we don't appeal or respond to them in some way. Not that I know of. I really think you should talk to a lawyer about this one, especially because she kept saying the documents are fake. In your case, all you need to really prove that you are common-law, and this is what they would ask you about in an ADR. Being married in a ADR still doesn't change the fact that your application is for a common-law status. Also, for a full-hearing, it's as if they start your WHOLE file from scratch, so can change the legal status of your relationship then.

I know it's so frustrating and makes you feel so angry what's happened to you, victimized even! Best of luck!

 

[Lenchik]

sorry to hear that you been waiting so long... the toronto office is dealing with our appeal also. so right now im going to be waiting a very long time to hear from the toronto office.....Question for you lenchik...... did you have to pay for the blue book and how long you got it once you send in the appeal application.

Hey License2cry,

I filed my appeal in march and got my blue file on july 2. there is no fee for blue file, they send it to everyone with the summary of all documents and all their notes.

 

[Double Rainbow]

hello, license2cry I filed my appeal in 30th, April and I get blue book in july,31 2013.since then I get no news. i just keep calling IAD office in Toronto every month.
thanks simple9999 I already have all documents ready just waiting if they ask me,but you know if I get no ADR then Toronto waiting time for full court hearing around 18 teen months mini.so IF I get full hearing then 18 months and if court decide to reapply then process and waiting period in Pakistan 31months then 18 +31 =49 months and its means 4 years total time will be. I already spent 3 yeas since I applied first time. thats why I'm thinking if I get no ADR I will withdraw and reapply my case AGAIN.

ANY ONE HAVE AND POSITION AND USEFULL ADVISE PLZ SHARE WITH ME MY CASE IS ALMOST IN LAST STAGE. Hi Nake I am so sorry of what you are going through and waiting so long for this nightmare to be over with. Is there not a charter of rights for you here and for anybody that is waiting so long. :'( Worth a try to ask, or maybe get transfered to Vancouver as turn around times are less and Vancouver does all of Western Canada so I don't understand why in Toronto it is as long as it is :'( ((((((Sending you huge hugs and positive vibes your way)))))))) :-*
THANKS

 

[Double Rainbow]

Hi All,

Hope some people from New Delhi 2012/13 threads know me n my case.. To brief you our case was rejected coz acc to them they did not receive the additional docs requested after the interview In Time (60 days were given to submit add docs).. Though the docs reached well IN TIME but thanks to our VOs!! However after appealing (ADR) with God's grace they decided to re-open the case as the V.O accepted to have received the required docs after rejecting our case & So decided to resume our application.. N now we had received re-medical & re-PCC as the old ones had expired.

So now we have submitted the re-medical & re-PCC 2 months ago along with few Forms (updated addresses, background declaration, family history, so n so forth) they have asked to resubmit!!

P.S the e-cas status is returned to Application Received from DM as they resumed the process!!

Need your suggestions when can We expect our PP back with Visa??

Thanks!!

Congratulations and I hope all will be resolved very soon for you. Yes. I remember you :-*

 

[Double Rainbow]

Hello everyone,

I am from the POS thread and never thought I'd be here - but here we go!

First off. Let me say that the only reason we are here is because our VO handling our file is completely incompetent. Not all VOs at this office are as stupid, from what we can gather.

We applied common-law with tons of proof and have been discriminated against for not being married from the get-go. We are not 100% sure we want to appeal, because our VO has all but used our application as toilet paper as she made up tons of lies and assumptions. BUT we want to know our options. We know we can re-apply as married with a new application because the officer even wrote in our interview notes that our relationship is genuine and on-going. So if we married, we would meet the criteria for visa. However, this isn't ALL about the visa. Our case was handled EXTREMELY poorly (and is still being handled poorly) and we don't want the damage this VO did to carry into our new application if we have to make one.

Some questions I have about the appeal process:

1) If we appeal and go do ADR hearing (I would go, as I am the sponsor), what decides where it is held (I am from Nova Scotia) and what is the wait time?

2) If we decided to appeal, the office sends our copy of our application to us - are you ever "locked into" an appeal? For example, we decide to appeal because of how poorly our case was handled, go to ADR, lose and don't want to wait for a full hearing.. can we pull out and just re-apply if it will be faster? Or are we locked into the full appeal process as soon as we decide to appeal?

3) If I represent myself for ADR, is there any cost (other than travelling and preparing my own documents) for appeal?

4) Even if we lose our appeal or withdraw, are the notes of our appeal added to our original file?

5) Is there any way to have a statement added to our original file without going to appeal? We have a cheaper/faster shot at being together by marrying and re-applying but we also don't want the lies written in our original application to go un-responded to by us - as we are afraid it will look like an admission of guilt if we don't appeal or respond to them in some way.


Quick summary of issues/mistakes from our application (not trying to whine, but just want to put it all out there in one message to make sure I have everything covered). THESE are what we want to address (we don't necessarily have to win an appeal, we just want these facts to be known when we re-apply so that the VO processing our next application will not just have the lies from the previous VO to go on - we want them to hear from us too). They don't take note of our CSE's so sending one of them with these issues isn't promising.

1) Our file has been crapped on by our VO since she got it. It was reviewed (very well) by someone junior who took detailed notes of our TONS of proof we sent for CL and then, in January 2013, sent for final review by officer. We ordered regular notes. No one touched our file for 8 months. When we sent a CSE, they responded saying the officer had the file on her desk (for 8 months!?) but nothing. Only by contacting our MP did something happen - days after our MP asked them why no one had touched our application for 8 months (while other applications were being processed in record time), we found out we were scheduled for interview. <WE REALIZE THIS IS NOT A HUGE WAIT TIME AS COMPARED TO OTHER OFFICES AND ARE NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT THAT - JUST GOT SICK OF SEEING PEOPLE GET THROUGH IN A FEW MONTHS WHILE WE HAD WAITED 15)

2) We filed Common-law. Had lived together in the Caribbean for 15 months (more, but not provable). Never married before, no previous relationships, no kids, applicant had never tried to enter USA/Canada before, no criminal record, pretty simple. We had leases to prove our common-law status for the entire 15 months, rent receipts for each month, notarized letters from our landlords/neighbours/friends/parents, etc. Pictures of our relationship and being together at the apartment. Food delivery receipts to us at the apartment, bank letter in both our names coming to apartment, bank account together, life insurance policy, etc. Dating since Feb 2011. I attended interview with applicant.

3) We were discriminated against for applying CL vs married. The VO said (almost immediately) to my partner when he entered the interview that CL is way harder than marriage to apply and "if we had just gotten married we could just walk in with a marriage certificate and that is it. I believe your relationship is genuine."

4) During interview, my partner answered all relationship questions perfectly. We had brought about 500+ pages of additional proof of our relationship, which the VO refused to take because she already believed our relationship is genuine. The reason we were called for interview was to provide extra proof of common-law (original proof requested). We brought our original leases, rent receipts, etc (photocopies were sent with application) AND for new proof, included 2 notarized letters (one from each of our landlords) stating we did live together and the leases were genuine and issued by them (they own the apartment building). We also got a notarized letter from the neighbour that lived there beside us the entire time. The VO did take all this proof. The VO took the leases and said they looked made up for immigration purposes because the same color pen was used a year apart. My partner responded that the leases were original and we used the pen the landlord gave us to use - her section was filled out already by her. He also said to call the landlord (or any other people who verified our CL status) and verify if anything looked strange. She then said the receipts for rent could be fake because the receipt numbers at the top were only a couple numbers apart each time (which makes sense because there are only 2-3 apartments in the building so only 2-3 receipts for rent each month). She said she would have someone else look into the leases and receipts and said our relationship was genuine. She stated she would get back to us very soon (within 7 days).

4). We waited over a month and contacted our MP who found out we were refused. The VO claimed to have sent us our appeal rights only days after the interview (which still haven't been received over a month later) and she said she sent an email to inform the applicant of his denial days after the interview (which was received over a month later - only yesterday after 7 CSEs, 2 MP emails/phone calls, etc.). The refusal notice only stated she did not feel we met the CL criteria and therefore my partner was not a member of the family class. However, the notes that we ordered (GCMS) had MUCH more detail. Unfortunately, much of it was lies and mistakes.

- The VO gave her summary of the interview. For half of the summary she refers to the applicant as "She" and "Her" and "she said" and "I told her". My partner is a man (I'm female). So clearly, she's not very careful with her details. She suddenly switches half way through and begins referring to him as a man (copy and paste error, I assume).

- She wrote down SOME OF the questions she asked my partner and his responses BUT NOT ALL OF THEM.

- She completely fabricated some of his answers. For example. She asked him twice in a row if the leases were original. He said yes. She asked a 3rd time and SHE wrote that his answer was that they might have been done for immigration (100% NOT TRUE. HE DID NOT SAY THAT AND WOULD NOT SAY THAT - AS THE LEASES ARE REAL.) She made it up, I assume, so her refusal had grounds.

- She made several other mistakes. Like my partner said we would be going to the UK together for 4 months from Oct-January and she wrote that down. However, later she said 6 months.

- She said she did not believe our leases, receipts were real. She did admit to receiving a detailed letter from our landlord which would prove our CL status. But she said she thought it was not genuine because in the letter the landlord said that she "knew <applicant> from the community and knew him to be a responsible person when she allowed him to move in." She claimed that this meant she was friends with the applicant and the landlord was likely making fake leases and letters to aid us in our application.

- SHE MADE THE CLAIMS THAT OUR LEASES/RECEIPTS/LANDLORD LETTERS, LETTERS FROM OTHERS ABOUT OUR CL STATUS COULD BE FAKE - but did NOTHING TO VERYIFY THIS. She did not call one single person of the 10+ letters that were sent, did not send the leases/receipts to be examined, did not try to contact the landlord, etc. Her decision is based on her decision alone that the pen color on the leases was the same and therefore everything in support of our CL is false (there are only 2 pen colors used to sign a lease...)

- She wrote that she sent us mail and email when that was false.

Now I am 100% in favour of VOs doing their research to verify documents and relationships are real. But I am not in favor of making assumptions and claims that are absurd and unproveable and NOT INVESTIGATED AT ALL but yet able to keep a genuine couple apart for years.

So - if we DON'T appeal - we want to make sure we address these lies somehow so that our NEW application is not tarnished by this id*ots decision. Is there a way to do this?

If we DO appeal, I'm not sure we can win with all the lies she wrote (our word against hers) but will there at least be a record of our concerns on file so that our new application stands a chance?

Thanks for any advice. Sorry for the very long post but I know the details help when giving advice and this is the only area of this process I am NOT familiar with.

Much love. Miss D

**edited: we have still not received our appeal rights although she stated in the notes she sent them to us by email and mail (neither of which have been received in any of our mail addresses or email addresses - including junk mail - and its been over a month).

Hi Miss D So sorry you are going through all of this. I send you a((((( huge hug))))) I think you should seek good reputable legal counsel for sure to ask all of these questions as this person can guide you with the answers needed. Alot of the time immigration frowns upon conjugal relationships. It is definately better if you are married after all it is a family class sponsorship, though in the package it states you can sponsor someone that is in a conjugal live in relationship with you ??? As for reapplying I think you are better off to deal with the VO issues and get those addressed with an ADR or a full hearing. If you are not successful with an ADR the full hearing would be about another approximent 4 months after your ADR but this is here in Vancouver. Not sure about Toronto ??? Most ADR's are successful but you also have to be granted this to you. You can always request an ADR yourself in writing. It surely could not hurt to ask and give the reasons why you state here. This way you are accommodating them with information they need to grant you an ADR or full hearing. If they have this kind of information ahead of time it can be very helpful to you. I would not say too much about the Visa Officer at this point but rather you feel you were treated unfairly and point out a few factors only in your letter as this is your honesty and tell them how you are feeling upset and very sad to your very core, that you no longer are able to per sue your original plans of a wedding in Canada now because of this and you have terminally ill familiy members that wanted to attend your Canadian wedding as they cannot travel to the Caribbean because of terminal illness. Download the notice to appeal forms both of you have to sign to order it and pay I think $5.00 to the Receiver General of Canada with a money order. Send it as you only have I think 30 days to send the appeal notice. If you have not received the refusal letter yet doesn't matter just get the notice of appeal to the IAD as fast as you can. I think addressing the Visa Officer's issues is best because if you re apply those issues will still be there and they have not been addressed which sets you up for denial again and more time wasted. Talk with you MP and explain as well if you like.ADR's are mainly addressing the visa officer's issues. They are more informal versus a full hearing,most are successful and only about an hour and a half long at most and it is you speaking and addressing it all. You must seek a good lawyer it is best, they know what they are doing and remember this is your future with your spouse, so investing in a lawyer is best if you want to be successful. It would be very wise and well worth it over all.Your future together is at stake right now, so invest in legal counsel. :-*

 

[Double Rainbow]

Hello All,

I just received an AOR from the IAD...whew how confusing...has anyone gone to an ADR and won without a Lawyer? TOTALLY CONFUSED

Hi waiting You received an AOR from the IAD on November 29th? You were granted an ADR hun? a lawyer always is best as this is your future together. I observed 5 full hearings in court for experience, 4 did not have lawyers and all lost with no ADR first. The only one that had a lawyer won. Just an observance on my part.

 

[Double Rainbow]

Hey Double Rainbow.i hope u r good .. i wana ask u some quries plz dear help me n guide me .. ur case is from vancouvre right ! Can u plz tel me total appeal time of vanvoure. Im totaly dead dear :'( :'( :'(.. time is realy killing me silently......my appeal started from April 2013 n received bluebook in september end .i dont know how much more time i have to wait....canadian embasy already spoiled our precious 4 years :'(

Hi Hina You cannot count April for a timeline. You count from when you received the AOR of your notice to appeal... letter date from the IAD. Count after this time to about 4 months post you received the blue book. Now count another 4 or 5 months from September's date of the blue book approximately as they are behind a bit. If you are granted an ADR and not successful you go to full hearing which will be in about 4 months after the ADR approximently.Also if you are unsuccessful with an ADR you get another chance with a full hearing, you get two chances when you look at it this way. When you only get granted the full hearing it is only the one chance. Hopefully you will get granted an ADR. This is for Vancouver timelines of hearings and yes my case is here also. You will probably get your hearing January or February 2014. i hope this helps you.

 

[Ankit_Sonam]

Hi Double Rainbow,

We have full hearing on Dec 12 in Winnipeg. Could you share your experience as i have seen that you went for the public hearing in Vancouver.
We also have a lawyer helping us in our case.

Thanks,
Ankit_Sonam

 

[Hina 123]

Hi Hina You cannot count April for a timeline. You count from when you received the AOR of your notice to appeal... letter date from the IAD. Count after this time to about 4 months post you received the blue book. Now count another 4 or 5 months from September's date of the blue book approximately as they are behind a bit. If you are granted an ADR and not successful you go to full hearing which will be in about 4 months after the ADR approximently.Also if you are unsuccessful with an ADR you get another chance with a full hearing, you get two chances when you look at it this way. When you only get granted the full hearing it is only the one chance. Hopefully you will get granted an ADR. This is for Vancouver timelines of hearings and yes my case is here also. You will probably get your hearing January or February 2014. i hope this helps you.

Thank u so much Double Rainbow..

 

[Vijender_Rana]

Hi Double Rainbow,

We have full hearing on Dec 12 in Winnipeg. Could you share your experience as i have seen that you went for the public hearing in Vancouver.
We also have a lawyer helping us in our case.

Thanks,
Ankit_Sonam

can you pls tell, on what ground they refused you..?

 

[MissDominica]

Thanks for the advice Harryiswaiting, Double rainbow, and SenoritaBella