Additional documents

[armoured]

Thank you for the suggestions, I belong to Pakistan. And I have checked the country specific requirements too.

MFA are asking for all the original documents to attest. (They dont attest the photocopy).
Furthermore, IRCC are asking for photocopies for most of the documents.

I don’t know if I should go for original documents attestation then I can photocopy them and send it to IRCC.

If the originals are in English, photocopies should be okay. But it would be best if you hear from other applicants from Pakistan to confirm.

One point that is seen frequently here (for Pakistan specifically) is to pay careful attention to the documentary and all other requirements for the wedding/marriage. I do recall seeing that IRCC will sometimes (always?) ask for the Urdu (I presume) copy (with certified translation of course) of some of the marriage docs (Nikkah Nama I believe). The IRCC instructions do say some docs are not sufficient on their own.

 

[Huntingwhale]

Was this at the time of the marriage or for the sponsorship?

This was specifically for sponsorship. The email I am looking at now, from both Canadian Embassy's in Ukraine (Lviv & Kyiv) stat the same thing; there is no need to do anything with the certificate once you are married in terms of registering the marriage. The marriage will automatically be recognized in Canada. However, to sponsor a spouse and include the marriage certificate in the application, it must be legalized by both the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and Canadian Embassy.

- Getting married and going home after - no need to do anything.
- Getting married and sponsoring wife - must get wedding certificate legalized in both the country it took place AND at Canadian Embassy

My marriage certificate has 4 damn stamps on it. One from the state minister where the marriage was registered. Then by a notary. Then by the MFA. Then Embassy of Canada.

As mentioned in other posts, Canada is NOT part of the Hague/Apostille convention. If we were, it would just be a matter of going to a notary and getting it apostilled at any notary, then it's ready for use. For whatever extremely stupid reason, we are one of the very few civilized western countries who do not take part in this. That's why all these extra steps are necessary.

This is my experience with a Ukrainian language wedding certificate from 3 months ago. I am assuming it is similar process for all other countries where the certificate is not English (correct me if I am wrong). Not sure how it works if the wedding certificate is already in English.

 

[armoured]

This was specifically for sponsorship. The email I am looking at now, from both Canadian Embassy's in Ukraine (Lviv & Kyiv) stat the same thing; there is no need to do anything with the certificate once you are married in terms of registering the marriage. The marriage will automatically be recognized in Canada. However, to sponsor a spouse and include the marriage certificate in the application, it must be legalized by both the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and Canadian Embassy.

- Getting married and going home after - no need to do anything.
- Getting married and sponsoring wife - must get wedding certificate legalized in both the country it took place AND at Canadian Embassy

My marriage certificate has 4 damn stamps on it. One from the state minister where the marriage was registered. Then by a notary. Then by the MFA. Then Embassy of Canada.

As mentioned in other posts, Canada is NOT part of the Hague/Apostille convention. If we were, it would just be a matter of going to a notary and getting it apostilled at any notary, then it's ready for use. For whatever extremely stupid reason, we are one of the very few civilized western countries who do not take part in this. That's why all these extra steps are necessary.

This is my experience with a Ukrainian language wedding certificate from 3 months ago. I am assuming it is similar process for all other countries where the certificate is not English (correct me if I am wrong). Not sure how it works if the wedding certificate is already in English.

I'm surprised by this, seems specific for Ukraine and not listed in the requirements.

For Russia, most of the former Soviet Union and much of the former Warsaw pact, it's just certified translation plus notarization (local). In fact I think most European civil law jurisdictions but don't know every one.

Hague convention is actually more complex than what Canada requires (eg in Russia) - it is a government stamp on top of the notary's.

See here example for usa:
https://ru.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/notaries-public/apostilles/#:~:text=An apostille is the equivalent,the United States and Russia.

So I'm quite surprised the Canadian embassy in Ukraine required more - but there are quirks all over. And sometimes they make mistakes.

(The reason I asked if required for the marriage is that eg in Russia the non impediment to marriage declaration from the embassy does have to be legalized by the foreign ministry but legalization not required for sponsorship)

 

[Phalos]

This was specifically for sponsorship. The email I am looking at now, from both Canadian Embassy's in Ukraine (Lviv & Kyiv) stat the same thing; there is no need to do anything with the certificate once you are married in terms of registering the marriage. The marriage will automatically be recognized in Canada. However, to sponsor a spouse and include the marriage certificate in the application, it must be legalized by both the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and Canadian Embassy.

- Getting married and going home after - no need to do anything.
- Getting married and sponsoring wife - must get wedding certificate legalized in both the country it took place AND at Canadian Embassy

My marriage certificate has 4 damn stamps on it. One from the state minister where the marriage was registered. Then by a notary. Then by the MFA. Then Embassy of Canada.

As mentioned in other posts, Canada is NOT part of the Hague/Apostille convention. If we were, it would just be a matter of going to a notary and getting it apostilled at any notary, then it's ready for use. For whatever extremely stupid reason, we are one of the very few civilized western countries who do not take part in this. That's why all these extra steps are necessary.

This is my experience with a Ukrainian language wedding certificate from 3 months ago. I am assuming it is similar process for all other countries where the certificate is not English (correct me if I am wrong). Not sure how it works if the wedding certificate is already in English.

I got my Ukrainian marriage certificate translated and Notarize. You dont need to take it to Canadian Embassy.

 

[Huntingwhale]

I'm surprised by this, seems specific for Ukraine and not listed in the requirements.

For Russia, most of the former Soviet Union and much of the former Warsaw pact, it's just certified translation plus notarization (local). In fact I think most European civil law jurisdictions but don't know every one.

Hague convention is actually more complex than what Canada requires (eg in Russia) - it is a government stamp on top of the notary's.

See here example for usa:
https://ru.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/notaries-public/apostilles/#:~:text=An apostille is the equivalent,the United States and Russia.

So I'm quite surprised the Canadian embassy in Ukraine required more - but there are quirks all over.

Yup, it was the ultimate pain in the ass process. Of all the things to prep for our application, this was the #1 hardest. Believe me, at first we had our doubts that it was even necessary to do all this and thought about simply translating it and including it. But when both Canada Embassy's in Ukraine told us this was the path, it was best to do what they said instead of just risking it. It resulted in us having to stay a total of 2 week in Kyiv to get this done. Covid made it longer, since all parties had to deliver everything by mail, no drop off/pick up.

After we got our wedding certificate stamped, we then had to get it certified copied and certified translated as per usual. Honestly this wedding certificate has been through hell and back. I'll have to read up what the experiences of couples in other countries are, just to compare the process.

 

[Huntingwhale]

I got my Ukrainian marriage certificate translated and Notarize. You dont need to take it to Canadian Embassy.

Lucky haha! How long ago was this, and all good in your application I am assuming?

 

[armoured]

Yup, it was the ultimate pain in the ass process. Of all the things to prep for our application, this was the #1 hardest. Believe me, at first we had our doubts that it was even necessary to do all this and thought about simply translating it and including it. But when both Canada Embassy's in Ukraine told us this was the path, it was best to do what they said instead of just risking it. It resulted in us having to stay a total of 2 week in Kyiv to get this done. Covid made it longer, since all parties had to deliver everything by mail, no drop off/pick up.

After we got our wedding certificate stamped, we then had to get it certified copied and certified translated as per usual. Honestly this wedding certificate has been through hell and back. I'll have to read up what the experiences of couples in other countries are, just to compare the process.

I'm sorry to hear that and yeah, it's a pain in the nether regions process if you have to get legalization.

And again, I'm really surprised, because the process is quite standardized in ex-ussr (and pretty straightforward mostly) - translation plus notary. I'm also quite sure I've heard several other Ukrainian cases where there was no mention of this, wedding certificate just translated and notarized.

I'm leaning to saying they were just wrong (it happens). But I can't blame you for not taking any chances and getting the extra stamps.

There is a funny issue for most of these countries if you need the no-objection declaration from the other parent (if stepchildren included) - notaries will absolutely not witness signatures for a foreign-language document, and Canada's form is specific. (We had to get it translated into Russian, signed and witnessed, and then translated and notarized again - subsequently found out a dual-language declaration is acceptable but you have to do it yourself)

 

[Phalos]

Lucky haha! How long ago was this, and all good in your application I am assuming?

Last year my friend. No issues with certificate itself.

 

[Huntingwhale]

Last year my friend. No issues with certificate itself.

I'm sorry to hear that and yeah, it's a pain in the nether regions process if you have to get legalization.

And again, I'm really surprised, because the process is quite standardized in ex-ussr (and pretty straightforward mostly) - translation plus notary. I'm also quite sure I've heard several other Ukrainian cases where there was no mention of this, wedding certificate just translated and notarized.

I'm leaning to saying they were just wrong (it happens). But I can't blame you for not taking any chances and getting the extra stamps.

There is a funny issue for most of these countries if you need the no-objection declaration from the other parent (if stepchildren included) - notaries will absolutely not witness signatures for a foreign-language document, and Canada's form is specific. (We had to get it translated into Russian, signed and witnessed, and then translated and notarized again - subsequently found out a dual-language declaration is acceptable but you have to do it yourself)

This is all interesting to hear. Thanks for your information and sources. Personally I thought it was all over-kill to do all this, but at the time my mentality was who am I to question both Embassies LOL. I guess it's can't hurt (but probably doesn't help either...) to do all that extra stuff. I'll have to tell my wife about this, and than I get to listen to her go off on a tangent about Ukrainian bureaucracy.

Perhaps both Embassy's misunderstood or were mistaken. Either way, they we're all too happy to take my $50, so no surprise nobody piped up to say this wasn't necessary.

 

[armoured]

This is all interesting to hear. Thanks for your information and sources. Personally I thought it was all over-kill to do all this, but at the time my mentality was who am I to question both Embassies LOL. I guess it's can't hurt (but probably doesn't help either...) to do all that extra stuff. I'll have to tell my wife about this, and than I get to listen to her go off on a tangent about Ukrainian bureaucracy.

Perhaps both Embassy's misunderstood or were mistaken. Either way, they we're all too happy to take my $50, so no surprise nobody piped up to say this wasn't necessary.

This is why I (mostly) say it's better to look at what IRCC says in their public, published guides and documents - otherwise known as 'follow the instructions.'

I can only speculate what was going on there - but I'd emphasize, the consular service sections of the Canadian embassies and consulates - the people that you likely dealt with - are not IRCC. (The distinction is different for other countries - not possible to explain in brief why it's different, just the way it is). And often staffed almost entirely by local staff who sometimes literally just do not know. (There's almost no chance the consular service staff in Lviv would actually know anything about sponsorship, or if they did, not because part of their job responsibilities)

 

[haddad287]

Actually it pretty much does mean that.



I don't know if I'm talking from capital-letter Experience, but this is not my only time around the block.

Does it 'hurt' to do pointless extra steps? Well, for some, getting this done at MFA is not painless - it can be lengthy, costly, and involve extra travel.

More importantly, if doing pointless extra steps means spending time on things that are not needed, a risk - possibly significant - that applicants will concentrate on the wrong things and miss what is important.

For background for those that actually pay attention: in many countries, the process of getting documents authenticated (sometimes called apostille'd) by foreign ministry/similar designated agency is common because they are signatories to the Hague Convention - notably for example USA is a signatory. Canada is NOT a signatory and uses its own approach country-by-country (why Canada does not participate is a separate issue but short form, federalism and the constitution - these docs are often provincial responsibility).

(The annoying thing for Canadians is some other countries will require this, and so Global Affairs kind-of sort-of provides the service where absolutely necessary, but it's costly and slow and hard to do from abroad.)

So b/c Canada is not in the Hague Convention, there's no presumption that Hague-type authentications are necessary or sufficient. IRCC may require it from some countries but it's far from 'standard.'

But sure, if it makes anyone feel better to do it when not necessary, go ahead.

that is your recommendation, but if I were to recommended, I would get it MFA certified.

 

[armoured]

that is your recommendation, but if I were to recommended, I would get it MFA certified.

Sure. If people want to do extra steps, even where unnecessary, probably won't cause any problems.

 

[rt865]

@Huntingwhale - I saw on the spreadsheets tracker we have very similar applications (Canadians in Poland sponsoring Ukrainian spouses), however we did not certify our wedding certificate through MFA, just notarized copy + translation. Wish us luck!

 

[Huntingwhale]

@Huntingwhale - I saw on the spreadsheets tracker we have very similar applications (Canadians in Poland sponsoring Ukrainian spouses), however we did not certify our wedding certificate through MFA, just notarized copy + translation. Wish us luck!

You read my mind! I literally just saw your line on the spreadsheet and thought it was a duplicate of mine LOL. Came to this thread to see if you were around and here you are. I thought we were the only ones, but you're in Poland too! Crazy. Which city if you don't mind my asking?? PM me if you don't want to write it here. Would be good to keep in touch and compare notes

Some other here have said they didn't go to the MFA in Ukraine to do what we did, and honestly I'm not even upset that we did it. If anything it sounds like it's extra steps we did, but at the time we felt it was better safe than sorry since that is what the Canadian Consulate implied. I'm sure they were all too happy to take my $50...