A Must Read : Experts raise concerns about citizenship rules

[ramsfe]

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/national/Experts+raise+concerns+about+citizenship+rules/9436722/story.html

 

[ramsfe]

This government deserves that every unhappy applicant goes to court with his case to show them what it means to respect the LAW! ....

 

[farrous13]

“The Citizenship Act does not define residence as physical presence and the Federal Court has made various decisions on this issue over the years,” she wrote, citing a Citizenship and Immigration operational manual, even though the government's website still lists physical presence among the criteria for citizenship eligibility.

"He said the government has been “lying to everybody” about the rules as obtaining citizenship is about proving a strong connection to Canada and a certain level of establishment, not counting the days on a calculator. A person who returned to his or her homeland to care for a relative, or left the country on business shouldn't have difficulty obtaining citizenship because of the trip, he said."

How does the Citizenship Act define residency to apply for the Citizenship? Where can we find this act?

 

[ramsfe]

Here is the act!

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-29/

Actually, the strict physical presence is a very hard thing to count on ! It's even an insult to what it means to become canadian : You are not more canadian after 1095 than after 1094 days... right ?

 

[us2yow]

If they cant have bread...let them have cakes ? So petty. They are becoming more narrow-minded and less progressive by the day (something this place was proudly much less of earlier).

Did someone say that the boiling point will shoot up to a point of no return one of these days and people will be sooooooooo fed up ...CHANGE will come by itself ! (good). ......

After Dark comes light ....

 

[ramsfe]

If they cant have bread...let them have cakes ? So petty. They are becoming more narrow-minded and less progressive by the day (something this place was proudly much less of earlier).

Did someone say that the boiling point will shoot up to a point of no return one of these days and people will be sooooooooo fed up ...CHANGE will come by itself ! (good). ......

After Dark comes light ....

Progressive, they have never been ! Harper, Kenney and now Chris Alexander are re-enacting history, pushing everyone to live in the 19th century Britain! Northern Gateway is their own version of London's railway in 1896 ---with the only difference that back then, building a railway was a very constructive thing to do, while today, building a pipeline is nothing but a pure destruction of the environment - so this leads me to review my first conclusion : No, they are leading Canada back to the Middle ages!!!

 

[newtone]

Well they are Conservatives after all, therefore they'll have conservative foreign policy, conservative way of thinking, conservative budget, conservative view on race and religion

 

[EasyRider]

Actually, the strict physical presence is a very hard thing to count on ! It's even an insult to what it means to become canadian : You are not more canadian after 1095 than after 1094 days... right ?

3 years is just a qualification period, like in the most other countries, though I don't remember any country now that requires just 3 years of residence to apply for naturalization. That period is going to increase soon.

How would you define "becoming a Canadian" in any measurable terms that could be used in application and what it has to do with qualifying period?

Maybe Canada needs a Swiss-like system? I feel that it measures best becoming one of the tribe and focuses on actual physical integration the most.

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/en/home/themen/buergerrecht/einbuergerung/ordentliche_einbuergerung.html

After 12 years of residence, you have to satisfy requirement not only on federal, but also cantonal and local community levels, which set their own rules for naturalization.

I've heard on communal level, locals will actually gather and vote whether they want you to become a citizen or not.

So, living like a recluse or in an "ethnic community", having poor or no social standing likely won't get you Swiss citizenship, even after 12 years.

Isn't it a great and thorough system that guarantees that nobody becomes "Swiss of convenience" and not integrated try harder to integrate?

 

[ramsfe]

3 years is just a qualification period, like in the most other countries, though I don't remember any country now that requires just 3 years of residence to apply for naturalization. That period is going to increase soon.

How would you define "becoming a Canadian" in any measurable terms that could be used in application and what it has to do with qualifying period?

Maybe Canada needs a Swiss-like system? I feel that it measures best becoming one of the tribe and focuses on actual physical integration the most.

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/en/home/themen/buergerrecht/einbuergerung/ordentliche_einbuergerung.html

After 12 years of residence, you have to satisfy requirement not only on federal, but also cantonal and local community levels, which set their own rules for naturalization.

I've heard on communal level, locals will actually gather and vote whether they want you to become a citizen or not.

So, living like a recluse or in an "ethnic community", having poor or no social standing likely won't get you Swiss citizenship, even after 12 years.

Isn't it a great and thorough system that guarantees that nobody becomes "Swiss of convenience" and not integrated try harder to integrate?

Yes, ok, however, Canada is not Switzerland, and we have to stop comparing apples and oranges! Canada has an immigration system designed to attract the brightest and the talented to Canada and acquiring citizenship is part of this system - Canada is Canada, it is not the UK, it is not France, it is not Australia and it is not Switzerland, for the present and for the future, there are many things to take into consideration : Canada has roughly 33 million inhabitants, it's population is AGING slowly but surely...Immigrants are a great ASSET, and attracting them shouldn't be taken lightly. One of the great things about Canada is its multiculturalism. In every system in the world you will have citizens of convinience, and I would extend the definition of this "neo-con" term, to include even those who are born in a country to parents from this very same country and who never contribute to it!

Adding a year, adding ten years or removing 2 years of the citizenship requierements is nothing compared to what it MEANS to be a citizen of a place, it is not about days and hours, it can't be measured objectively and any trial to do this will fail greatly and will have the adverse effect! Those who fraud today will find ways to fraud tomorrow!

So, as Clinton would say, Mend it don't end it!! If you think that Citizenship Act needs reform to make it BETTER and to make it serve the purpose of why it was created in the first place, then SPEAK UP.... if you think that " People fraud with the days of residence" then add exit controls at all canadian borders and stop messing with what is working VERY WELL !!!

 

[us2yow]

Oh gosh...Apples and Oranges indeed...and Switzerland is very xenophobic...remember the open debate sometime back about not building minarets or authorizing them...something on those lines.....

Thankfully, Canada is WAY more progressive when compared to Switzerland but when you self-evaluate, compared to what Canada was in the nicer times (Libs, economic boom, 90s etc etc) - we are not that cool anymore until some change is ushered in after the last few years under the Cons...

 

[RussCan]

Oh gosh...Apples and Oranges indeed...and Switzerland is very xenophobic...remember the open debate sometime back about not building minarets or authorizing them...something on those lines.....

Thankfully, Canada is WAY more progressive when compared to Switzerland but when you self-evaluate, compared to what Canada was in the nicer times (Libs, economic boom, 90s etc etc) - we are not that cool anymore until some change is ushered in after the last few years under the Cons...

Because the Swiss people did not want to see minarets and be disturbed by numerous through the day calls for prayer (both of which are completely alien to the traditional Swiss culture) – does NOT make them xenophobic. On the opposite, one may argue, they are unlike other countries don't engage in the quasi-political correctness to the detriment of the interests and wishes of their own citizens.

 

[keesio]

Canada's immigration policy gets constantly dumped on in these forums but we should also be grateful that despite recent changes, it is still among the most generous in the developed world.

Now, as for their policies in integrating skilled immigrants to their workforce... that is another story!

 

[ramsfe]

Because the Swiss people did not want to see minarets and be disturbed by numerous through the day calls for pray (both of which are completely alien to the traditional Swiss culture) – does NOT make them xenophobic. On the opposite, one may argue they, they are unlike other countries don't engage in the quasi-political correctness to the detriment of the interests and wishes of their own citizens. Go Switzeland!!!!!

Yeah well, minarets and prayer calls are not the issue we are discussing ... let's just not slip into a dumb discussion about the legitimacy of Islam in Canada... Either we are multicultural and we assume it or we are not and we modify the constitution and the charter to reflect that... meanwhile, agnostic me is very happy to be surrounded by people from all faiths and cultural backgrounds.

 

[vic48912]

Canada's immigration policy gets constantly dumped on in these forums but we should also be grateful that despite recent changes, it is still among the most generous in the developed world.

Now, as for their policies in integrating skilled immigrants to their workforce... that is another story!

We don't have mass scale immigration problem like most countries but we hear the Cons trying to behave like GOP south of our border

 

[CanuckForEver]

3 years is just a qualification period, like in the most other countries, though I don't remember any country now that requires just 3 years of residence to apply for naturalization. That period is going to increase soon.

How would you define "becoming a Canadian" in any measurable terms that could be used in application and what it has to do with qualifying period?

Maybe Canada needs a Swiss-like system? I feel that it measures best becoming one of the tribe and focuses on actual physical integration the most.

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/en/home/themen/buergerrecht/einbuergerung/ordentliche_einbuergerung.html

After 12 years of residence, you have to satisfy requirement not only on federal, but also cantonal and local community levels, which set their own rules for naturalization.

I've heard on communal level, locals will actually gather and vote whether they want you to become a citizen or not.

So, living like a recluse or in an "ethnic community", having poor or no social standing likely won't get you Swiss citizenship, even after 12 years.

Isn't it a great and thorough system that guarantees that nobody becomes "Swiss of convenience" and not integrated try harder to integrate?

Switzerland's population density is 477/sq. mile while Canada's population density is a mere 8/sq. mile. Huge Difference. A country, switzerland, that has of its own kind doesnt care much about including more people for workforce, economy or operations. But a country, Canada, that has been so protectionist all these years will end up not having enough people in the work force to contribute for various kinds of tasks like public service, health care, education, trades, corporations and so on, let alone paying into a system that the bulk of retiring baby boomers are consuming now. So definitely the comparison is apples to oranges.
Coming to living in a ethnic community like a recluse, who's to blame on it? is it the person recluse from outside world? dont the rest of the Canadian society not have any part on that? you need 2 hands to clap.
Regarding Canadian for convenience, it is so blatantly ignorant to quote only recently naturalized Canadians do that. Caucasians, being a major part of this category, do this all the time. why hasnt that come up at all? isnt it the whole point of Canadian rights that you can live wherever you want?