4 Months Short of PR Obligation - Need to go for full settlement - Will I be reported ?

[kn2172]

Hi All,

We are a family of 3 and here is our PR Timeline :

1) Became landed PR on 10th Oct 2016
2) Stayed in Canada for 9 days and returned to India
3) The last date to be within the PR obligation (2 years stay) was 18th Oct 2019
4) Did not go to Canada

Reasons: My father's brother & his wife (i.e. my elder uncle & elder aunt) both were bedridden for past few months. Uncle was suffering from Cancer & Aunt was having digestive & legs related issues. They did not have any son or kids who could take care of them. We and my family had to be here to take care of them and be with them till they peacefully sleep forever.

Both of them died in January 2020. (i.e. a few days back)

Now, my wife and the 4-year-old kid wants to go to Canada permanently.

Will we be reported?

1) If yes, what are our chances of winning the appeal? Will the days we stay in Canada till the result of the appeal is out counted to the 3 years for citizenship? Are such family-related cases considered?

2) If no, what should we do next?

3) We do have PR cards valid till 2021. Should we get PRTD or travel on current PR cards ?

Please help.

 

[canuck78]

Hi All,

We are a family of 3 and here is our PR Timeline :

1) Became landed PR on 10th Oct 2016
2) Stayed in Canada for 9 days and returned to India
3) The last date to be within the PR obligation (2 years stay) was 18th Oct 2019
4) Did not go to Canada

Reasons: My father's brother & his wife (i.e. my elder uncle & elder aunt) both were bedridden for past few months. Uncle was suffering from Cancer & Aunt was having digestive & legs related issues. They did not have any son or kids who could take care of them. We and my family had to be here to take care of them and be with them till they peacefully sleep forever.

Both of them died in January 2020. (i.e. a few days back)

Now, my wife and the 4-year-old kid wants to go to Canada permanently.

Will we be reported?

1) If yes, what are our chances of winning the appeal? Will the days we stay in Canada till the result of the appeal is out counted to the 3 years for citizenship? Are such family-related cases considered?

2) If no, what should we do next?

3) We do have PR cards valid till 2021. Should we get PRTD or travel on current PR cards ?

Please help.

Illness of an extended family member would not be considered H&C unless you could prove that they had no other extended family. Nobody can say whether you will be reported once you land.

1. Your reasons are not good for H&C but if reported you should try to appeal. If your appeal is refused then that time in Canada does not count. In the case of extended family where there are other family members around it doesn’t usually constitute an H&C reason.

3. PRTD will lead to likely losing your PRTD since you will highlight that you have not met your RO. You should travel on your PR card as soon as possible and remain in Canada for at least 2 years without leaving

 

[kn2172]

Is there anyway how can i prove that i was supposed to be in India for them. They didn't have any male children , they only have a daughter who used to live seperately with her husband's family..

 

[Bs65]

Fact they had a daughter and they were not your parents would likely make it less likely any H&C case might succeed especially as you only spent 9 days in Canada since 2016 so trying to justify an absence of 3 years would be hard even with the circumstances.

As above fact you have valid PR cards you should move back to Canada as soon as possible and take your chances but for sure do not apply for PRTDs given the application will highlight that you failed the RO.

 

[kn2172]

Thanks all for the replies,

Now my conclusions :

1) As I have a PR card, I should not apply for PRTD - Done
(The only reason I was considering PRTD, that I will come to know whether I will be reported or not from India itself. Based on that, I can start my appeal from here itself. Also, I have read somewhere if your appeal is in progress, you won't be reported again at PoE. Also the appeal after not getting a PRTD has a time limit of 60 days. (as compared to 30 days at PoE)

2) I should fly as soon as possible and enter through Toronto as its a busy airport and chances of being reported are comparatively low.

3) Take all medical papers & death certificates of both (uncle & aunt) to show at PoE.

4) If I am not reported, I will stay in Canada until my PR is renewed. so after 3 years from now, I will be able to apply for citizenship.

Questions :

1) If I am reported and if my appeal is in progress - Can I travel in and out of Canada (as i am already reported once , they can't report me again).

Please help.

Best Regards,

 

[scylla]

Thanks all for the replies,

Now my conclusions :

1) As I have a PR card, I should not apply for PRTD - Done
(The only reason I was considering PRTD, that I will come to know whether I will be reported or not from India itself. Based on that, I can start my appeal from here itself. Also, I have read somewhere if your appeal is in progress, you won't be reported again at PoE. Also the appeal after not getting a PRTD has a time limit of 60 days. (as compared to 30 days at PoE)

2) I should fly as soon as possible and enter through Toronto as its a busy airport and chances of being reported are comparatively low.

3) Take all medical papers & death certificates of both (uncle & aunt) to show at PoE.

4) If I am not reported, I will stay in Canada until my PR is renewed. so after 3 years from now, I will be able to apply for citizenship.

Questions :

1) If I am reported and if my appeal is in progress - Can I travel in and out of Canada (as i am already reported once , they can't report me again).

Please help.

Best Regards,

Yes for most of this.

Not sure I would bother with the medical papers for your uncle and aunt. I don't think you have a strong case here.

If you are reported, you can travel in and out of Canada however should keep this to an absolute minimum if you want to try to succeed in the hearing / appeal process. Frequent travel will demonstrate you're not really committed to settling in Canada.

 

[dpenabill]

Thanks all for the replies,

Now my conclusions :

1) As I have a PR card, I should not apply for PRTD - Done
(The only reason I was considering PRTD, that I will come to know whether I will be reported or not from India itself. Based on that, I can start my appeal from here itself. Also, I have read somewhere if your appeal is in progress, you won't be reported again at PoE. Also the appeal after not getting a PRTD has a time limit of 60 days. (as compared to 30 days at PoE)

2) I should fly as soon as possible and enter through Toronto as its a busy airport and chances of being reported are comparatively low.

3) Take all medical papers & death certificates of both (uncle & aunt) to show at PoE.

4) If I am not reported, I will stay in Canada until my PR is renewed. so after 3 years from now, I will be able to apply for citizenship.

Questions :

1) If I am reported and if my appeal is in progress - Can I travel in and out of Canada (as i am already reported once , they can't report me again).

Please help.

Best Regards,

I disagree with comments dismissing the value of any explanation for why it has taken longer to come to Canada to stay. IRCC policy actually MANDATES that officers evaluating RO compliance consider H&C reasons, and in doing this consider ALL reasons the PR submits. There is NO doubt, your explanation about family member illness will be considered.

How much weight it will have is far more difficult, if not impossible to forecast. The bigger factor is simply how soon you actually come to Canada. The sooner the better.

Remember, H&C reasons do NOT excuse failing to comply with the Residency Obligation. For PR RO compliance and H&C relief, it is far more about balancing the extent of the breach and the reasonableness of the PR's explanations, and about agency discretion to allow those who have breached the RO the opportunity to keep their status because they DESERVE the chance to keep it.

So it may indeed be helpful to present some medical information to support your story. But ONLY IF ASKED about RO compliance The sooner you come, the better chance you have they will not even ask about RO compliance at the PoE. The window in time for this is shrinking and may be shrinking fast. But if you come soon there is a fair chance you are asked just a few questions and allowed to enter without your RO compliance being challenged much.

If questioned and pressed about RO compliance, a PR should be as honest and cooperative as practically possible. If this happens, then it might be helpful to have some medical records, or a brief statement in a letter from a physician, to back-up the explanation about why the PR was delayed making the move to Canada, not to excuse the PR from coming sooner, but more to show the PR's plans are focused on coming to Canada to live but he or she was just delayed a bit.

If allowed into Canada without being reported, then the only safe way to handle things is to STAY for two straight years, no traveling abroad, no application for a new PR card (there is no need to renew PR status . . . the PR just needs to be sure to have a SIN, and get enrolled for health care, and such, while the PR still has a valid PR card to show he or she is a PR), for at least two years.

If the PR is reported, yes the PR can still travel internationally using a valid PR card and if that expires the PR can apply for a one-year card pending the appeal. And then travel abroad pending the appeal. HOWEVER, as others noted, traveling outside Canada pending the appeal can have a negative impact, potentially big negative impact on the chances for a successful appeal. Lengthy or frequent trips abroad will most likely hurt the chances of winning the appeal.

 

[Wolfpmd3]

Is there anyway how can i prove that i was supposed to be in India for them. They didn't have any male children , they only have a daughter who used to live seperately with her husband's family..

This would certainly not help your case. The fact that they did not have male children, only female, that's a ridiculous reason.

You should no longer consider yourself a PR.

You can still apply to have your case reviewed and hope a favorable decision but this can't take a while (even years I've heard) and it's very unlikely be favorable.

Alternatively, you'll need to voluntarily renounce you pr status and start from scratch by applying for PR all over again.

The conditions are very clear, if you don't meet your PR obligations (unless you have a really good reason or qualify for one of the exemptions) that's it for you and your family. Nothing you can really do other that reapply.

 

[Wolfpmd3]

Fact they had a daughter and they were not your parents would likely make it less likely any H&C case might succeed especially as you only spent 9 days in Canada since 2016 so trying to justify an absence of 3 years would be hard even with the circumstances.

As above fact you have valid PR cards you should move back to Canada as soon as possible and take your chances but for sure do not apply for PRTDs given the application will highlight that you failed the RO.

Exactly, I don't think he has a case. You've been away for over 3 years and have spent less than 2 weeks in Canada.

However you're are saying you were taking care of your uncles the last few months, but what about the other 2+ years?

 

[serenus]

Thanks all for the replies,

Now my conclusions :

1) As I have a PR card, I should not apply for PRTD - Done
(The only reason I was considering PRTD, that I will come to know whether I will be reported or not from India itself. Based on that, I can start my appeal from here itself. Also, I have read somewhere if your appeal is in progress, you won't be reported again at PoE. Also the appeal after not getting a PRTD has a time limit of 60 days. (as compared to 30 days at PoE)

2) I should fly as soon as possible and enter through Toronto as its a busy airport and chances of being reported are comparatively low.

3) Take all medical papers & death certificates of both (uncle & aunt) to show at PoE.

4) If I am not reported, I will stay in Canada until my PR is renewed. so after 3 years from now, I will be able to apply for citizenship.

Questions :

1) If I am reported and if my appeal is in progress - Can I travel in and out of Canada (as i am already reported once , they can't report me again).

Please help.

Best Regards,

Hi,
Have you entered and faced any issue?

 

[realmj]

Hi,
Have you entered and faced any issue?

i can tell that currently all airport CBSA officers are more care about where are you come from? Italy, Iran, China, Korean???
If the RO checking weight 80% of questionnaires in before, seems recent 1/2 months it reduced to 40% or less...

 

[serenus]

If the RO checking weight 80% of questionnaires in before, seems recent 1/2 months it reduced to 40% or less...

Hi realmj, Thanks for your reply. But I am not clear about the quoted line.

 

[realmj]

Hi realmj, Thanks for your reply. But I am not clear about the quoted line.

what i meant was currently I ASSUME border officers may tend to ask "less" RO questions, and more travel history questions than usual. If I am the officer face to face talking to hundreds or thousands people coming from world wide day by day, it's vital to protect myself, family and team mates. But all in all, it's my guess...just FYI.

 

[canuck78]

what i meant was currently I ASSUME border officers may tend to ask "less" RO questions, and more travel history questions than usual. If I am the officer face to face talking to hundreds or thousands people coming from world wide day by day, it's vital to protect myself, family and team mates. But all in all, it's my guess...just FYI.

Assume there will be screening before and at arrival gates. CBSA still has to do their jobs and look for various threats and immigration issues.

 

[realmj]

Assume there will be screening before and at arrival gates. CBSA still has to do their jobs and look for various threats and immigration issues.

I believe CBSA will do their job, but there are some virus carrier has no any symptoms when they arrive and they are possible to pass the screening. otherwise recently confirmed cases in Canada (flight back from Iran or Italy) would be identified at air ports