2023 Citizenship Applications

[Seym]

Both the question of how things work VS how people perceive things work in their own personal situation are valuable, albeit maybe "contradictory".

Yep, there is relative transparency and knowledge about how the whole process works, but that knowledge feels more academic and theoretical at this point and doesn't change the fact that I would be completely unable to assess with any certainty whether the application of a family member of mine, sent mid 2023, is close to completion or still needs a few more years. ATIP answers we got were redacted (we asked for example for correspondance between IRCC and CSIS regarding the follow up on the application, it was completely ignored and we just got the GCMS notes), and MPs emails oscillated between "there's nothing we can do because it's stuck in security" and "LP is complete, security checks are ongoing, will ask again in 3 months and you'll receive another copy-paste of the tracker with no additional information".

At this point, it pretty much boils down to opening the tracker from time to time with fingers crossed, and closing it on the spot after checking the date of last update, which hasn't changed in more than a year, and with no need to scroll down. We're trying to focus on the fact that the application is neither shelved nor lost, that some people who applied roughly at the same time just got to the finish line, including in this thread, that IRCC is going to make a decision at some point, and that the odds of the tracker showing something different are going up every day, although that's not really quantifiable.

But yeah, it's infuriating not knowing when to expect things. Had IRCC sent a letter saying that "due to the complexity of your case, IRCC expects to reach a decision within 4 years", it would be sad but we would adjust to it, and everything coming before these 4 years would be a bonus, but "it will happen when it happens, and dunno when that happens" just leaves us in the dark and is much more frustrating.

And on the topic of how things should work, I am absolutely a proponent of some kind of R v Jordan for IRCC. If Canada can let actual gangsters walk if the justice system makes them wait for too long, IRCC absolutely can be obliged to make a decision, and with justification if the decision is "denied", within x times the standard service of a given application type. Put some urgency on the system and it will have to adjust.

@dpenabill my sincere condolences for the death of your granddaughter. May she rest in peace.

 

[joaliriano]

Hi is there any update for your and the family application?

Not yet, thanks for asking! At least we're seeing lots of movements for August. Hopefully, the wait will be over soon!!

 

[ZiadPal]

Read my signature, I am not going to post all my personal info and all the ATIP stuff on here, but all of that in my sig is true. None of that is "falsehood". I am not playing victim, I AM a victim of the incompetency of the system and the people managing the system. And why would anyone create "clickbaits" on the canadavisa forum? What does one have to gain by doing so? This is not youtube or other social media where one can monetize it. It literally doesn't help anyone even if 10 million people (or AI or whatever) click on a topic.

And about the lawyer stuff...I am tired of talking about it so I am not going to.

That's all I am going to say on this. We can agree to disagree on the lack of transparency in MY PERSPECTIVE and it may be crystal clear transparency to you, and I congratulate you because what a lot of us are experiencing clearly doesn't affect you and you are the lucky one.

On the accusation of “playing victim,” I’ve seen this come up several times in groups and forums whenever someone raises concerns about the unfair and inefficient, unjustifiably long processing of their application. That’s one reason many people held back from sharing their own frustrations—just to avoid judgment from others who know very little about the inefficiency of IRCC and other government agencies.

On the note of inefficiency, let me share one case I know of personally (not just from a forum). There’s an applicant who has been stuck in security screening since 2023, yet this person actually works for the federal government in a sensitive position. They’ve already gone through a comprehensive secret security clearance (which is far more rigorous than the one done for citizenship) plus ongoing reliability checks. In fact, anyone working in sensitive government positions is under continuous security monitoring; clearance isn’t just a one-time thing.

So how can anyone seriously claim that IRCC is efficient or that this process is transparent? To me, it’s simply a waste of public resources. Just some food for thought for those who still believe IRCC’s process is justified and efficient.

 

[LuckyAngelSweety]

Right, let's get back to people sharing their actual application status here in this 2023 citizenship application thread. There are some really strange activities in my recent ATIPs and I'd rather not share and trigger another essay because it seems like I am in the extreme rare end of the spectrum. I will share any updates on any actual movements in my case when that happens.

For the rest of the extremely rare 2023 applicants who are still stuck in purgatory, please feel free to speak up. There shouldn't be anyone judging you.

What in ATIP refers to "extreme rare end of spectrum" ? Can you please share?

 

[stuckinsec]

September applicants! You are next

 

[ZiadPal]

September applicants! You are next

Any updates from Sep. 2023 applicants?

 

[dpenabill]

For those oriented to binary categorizing, and especially those oriented to a one side or the other perspective (such as IRCC is incompetent or inefficient versus asserting it is efficient and not incompetent), and particularly those who are not interested in figuring out whether in addition to being frustrated because how long things are taking, whether there is reason to be concerned and it's time to get proactive, I recognize my long read observations are of no interest. But these posts are easily skipped.

Meanwhile, notwithstanding how long it has taken, most 2023 applicants with applications still in process have no reason to worry about the status of their application, about the outcome. I understand and am sensitive to the frustrations. That said, reason to be frustrated is one thing. Reason to be concerned is another.

Whether to be worried about how it will go, in particular, is a different story. For those who applied early in 2023 and have an indication they are the subject of a security referral, it may be time to deal with the prospect of a real problem in their case . . . unless, of course, obviously, they are certain there is no real problem (certain there is no problem: nothing to worry about).

I generally do not offer advice, but I will advise those who have had an application in process for nearly three years and who believe they are the subject of a security investigation referral, do not be distracted or dissuaded by claims it is all due to incompetence and inefficiency at IRCC. For some, that might be it. For many if not most, however, among those three years into it and subject to a security investigation, it could prudent, possibly important, to get up to speed on what's happening. (Clue: requests for copies of your GCMS file will not do the trick, and the tracker is virtually useless.)

For example, just one example, for those who came to Canada and obtained PR status as a refugee, if you obtained or renewed a home country passport, and especially if you used one for travel, best to ignore the it's-just-IRCC-mismanagement holding things up sideshow.

What the issue is, whether it needs attention now or waiting is still OK, will vary from individual to individual.

@Seym has expressed the view that it would be less frustrating if IRCC said it expects to reach a decision within 4 years. But IRCC has said that, does say that. In fact it currently says it currently expects a citizenship application to be completed in 10 months. That is no guarantee. IRCC also says: "We can’t tell you exactly how long it will take us to process your application. Each application is different and takes a different amount of time to process."

The latter is the rub. What is different? Why? What does it mean? What is going to happen and when?

Contrary to broad aspersions about totally unfounded and unfair investigations, and allegations of "absolutely no transparency" and "incompetence," for applications approaching three years in process and subject to a referral for a security investigation, there is something different (with a few exceptions; and yes there are exceptions, some forum participants insisting they are among the exceptions).

Whether continuing to wait is OK (for many, perhaps most still, it is) or whether it is time to get proactive in figuring out more about what is happening, why, what is at stake, is a very personal decision. There is a lot of information, transparency, that can help in making that personal decision; but that can and often will demand a lot of homework, and for some a costly investment in obtaining legal counsel.

I apologize if I have been too heavy-handed in opposing those voices here that discourage getting engaged in figuring out what can be done in their own cases beyond casting hyperbolic distortions and condemning IRCC. As flawed as IRCC is, which in many respects it is, there is a difference between what amounts to a frustratingly long processing time (which many suffer) and those situations in which more than just the citizenship application could be at stake. For some that's a distinction ignored at one's peril.

 

[GFLiam]

Is it possible for you to tell us without disclosing too many details? Who cares what others think. Let them write long essays.

I mean, it's quite apparent even just one mention would trigger a full page of essay. I already need to read and review hundreds of pages of reports for work, I just don't have the mental capacity to read too much more when I am on my off time.

For the same token, everyone got their own life struggles and I am not going to bring my family's health issue problems into this because frankly it has nothing to do with what IRCC does or doesn't do. And if I mention it even for a tiny bit, I may be playing victim again. Either way there's no win, so I am not going there.

What in ATIP refers to "extreme rare end of spectrum" ? Can you please share?

Sorry, I may have not written my message too clearly. The ATIP didn't say "extreme rare end of spectrum". It'd be quite funny if they actually wrote that in the ATIP. I am just saying extremely rare as some people seem to think my case is extremely rare and the struggles others experience on this thread have nothing to do with IRCC's quality of work.