2 questions - Why proof return - Visa expectation release

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Hello,

(1) This is the most important question I need to know.

I have invited a Filipino Girl to care for me in Canada as I have fought Cancer 3 times already and now desperately seeking a dependable person to watch and care for me. I've chosen Filipino because of their loyal ethics and family ties.

She applied for a Temporary Visa and I did mention that she will return within 6 months time. She called the Embassy two days ago and they told her that she doesn't need to submit any more information. They also told her that the Visa is expected to be released on the first week of February 2009.

Now here's my question....

Does expectation of release of Visa mean that she will receive the Visa or does it mean the Visa Officer is still researching to finalize their decision?


(2) Least important question - however nice to know

Why is it soooooo... important for proof of returning back to original country?

If immigration already know that these relationships do end up into marriage, then why is it of sooo... much importance to show return? It's going to happen. It doesn't make sense.

Thank you

 

[frolic]

It's a TEMPORARY visa. You come, you visit, you go home. If they think this will result in a permanent stay they will just say no.

 

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Thank you for your reply,

Well... Ya... I know this already - everybody knows what temporary means.
Your answer is not helpful at all.

However - answer... why its so damn important to return?

What's the benefit behind returning? It doesn't make sense - The country will make more
money through taxes by allowing more people to visit each country. I
think someone needs to have reality check. it simply doesn't make sense.

 

[frolic]

If someone does not intend to return then they should be applying for a permanent visa...which includes all the work to prove you are good for Canada, not a criminal, in good health and not likely to be an excessive demand on our institutions etc etc etc.

Since many people like to try to avoid all the work and cost and time of the permanent visa by sneaking in the backdoor via a temporary visa it is up to you to prove you will return.

And it seems this is what you are trying to do even. Which AGAIN will reinforce to CIC the fact that this is what happens in many cases, making it harder for the next person who just wants to visit temporarily to get a visa.

 

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Again!

There's clear evidence sent with the TR application of my current health
issues. The officer is given complete approval to investigate &
explore my Health through OHIP or Health Canada. They will
definitely see that I require some support.

Sorry, perhaps I'm not clear enough with my questions.
I already understand the risk involved about not returning
to the Philippines. This is a Federal offense to remain in foreign
country. Is it not? soooo...........

Let me re-phrase. As your answers are not helpful whatsoever.

The TR application is already in process. There's no indication
on my Invitation letter or any of my documents (proof of citizenship,
recent bank statement, birth certificate, reason for visit... etc)
stating that we intend to skip or defraud the application. Nada!

And they are all signed, stamped and sworn by a Notary Public in Canada.

Now... I need to know how they go about approving a Visa request.
They've told her that the Visa EXPECTATION will be RELEASED on the
first week of February 2 - 5, 2009.

What do they mean by this? Is it approved already?


And secondly... SO WHAT!... Why do they care whether or not
you are planning to get married or attached? WHO CARES?

If the application states that she will return within 6 months time,
what's the BIG issue behind this? I'm not trying to defraud the
government nor she. So what's the big Deal?

Okay - I hope this makes more sense.

Regards

 

[frolic]

Released...as in they set it from from it's cage in the embassy and send it back to her. They wont say if she is approved or not until she gets the visa back with either a nice pretty sticker or a big red stamp.

You asked on why the proof was needed...you even GAVE one reason, that people come with a temp visa and then get married and STAY. Other people try to come as a tourist and then stay. Some come as students and then stay. Because of all the people who bypass, cheat, or otherwise stay, the burden of proof is on the person applying to prove they wont stay. And Canada got out of the fiancee visa business years ago. And the temp visa is NOT a replacement for that type of visa. THAT is why they care about proof of return and ties back home and all that.

My fiancee was denied a visitor visa, and we were not getting married here, she was just going to visit. Now we are married and we are in the middle of the sponsorship process. She has since gotten a temporary visa and visited and I damn well did my best to try to show "intent to return" and she is now back home waiting again.

You say you're not trying to defraud the government and that she will return in 6 months but you question the rules you are supposedly following which is a slightly strange way to go about things.

 

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Thank you!

Now we've got some substance to work with. And if anybody wants to join this
conversation, they are more than welcome to add their opinions.

Re: Your comment...
Released...as in they set it from from it's cage in the embassy and send it back to her. They wont say if she is
approved or not until she gets the visa back with either a nice pretty sticker or a big red stamp.


This set of protocols should not be tolerated by the people. If the officials want to discourage false pretences
then they should begin by setting an example. If they want to play games and not state all the reasons a Visa
application will be refused, is criminal itself. We do have lives to follow other than sitting around rolling our
thumbs in hopes we achieve success.


It's not fair that they are allowed to play God on our lives.


If we check Visa Embassy websites - there is no such set of rules stating that an individual cannot visit a country
for the purpose of marriage. But in fact... there are protocols that follow should marriage become evident.


They do emphasize that they want a full itinerary of the visit, however I don't think that they are interested on
knowing whether or not you're going or coming strictly for the dating scene. It's none of their business anyway.
So why tell them? I didn't mention anything about what our social life will be like, why should I?


I think if people apply and tell the Visa Officers that they are merely going to Canada to get married and don't
answer the application correctly as to what asset they will bring, is useless to our Country. Then yes, I agree
they should disapprove the application.


Canada wants people that will provide skill and pay their taxes. lol That's why the application suggest Career
Institutions. People with no goals or standards are worthless to us. We have enough people like this already
and we don't need more.

You also said:
Re:

You say you're not trying to defraud the government and that she will return in 6 months but
you question the rules you are supposedly following which is a slightly strange way to go about things.


Well... my answer is simple. Everyone has a certain understanding of policies and procedures. And my
circumstances compel me to emphasize my current situation. I've beaten cancer 3 times already, but my
health is deteriorating practically every month. So I don't have time for Bulls....t . If you understand what I mean.


Out of curiosity, how long did it take before you finally received your Temp Visa? Like what was the time frame -
from beginning (sign up) to finally receiving the Visa? How long did it take to get refused the first time? What do
think persuaded the Gov't to allow the Visa the second time around?


Thanks for your input.

PS: Oh yeah - on one last note. I called the Canadian Embassy itself and they told me to have my girlfriend to
apply for a Temporary Visa to start with. So it was not I... that decided to take this route, they suggested this to
me. And now that I recall better, they are the people that told me the marriage procedure. So I think the best
policy is stick with what the application wants.

And I do have an Itinerary to drop by Algonquin College for her and enroll for Medical care.

 

[frolic]

You will get the reason for the refusal when you get the passport back. But they wont tell you anything beforehand is all. It's the same for everyone everywhere in the world trying to come to Canada. Canada doesn't owe any other countries citizens anything.

And I think that is why you are complaining...it is not YOUR application for her to visit...it is hers. And Canada has the right to decide if they should let her come or not. And they will consider her motivations, travel plans, reasons for visiting, and likelyhood of returning home as well. They will even consider if "it is reasonable for the foreign national to be staying with the host for the period indicated". They will even consider if you are able to support her as the host for the timeframe as well.

They are not playing god, they are enforcing our laws and following our rules.

As far as Canada wanting people to come and be productive and pay taxes etc, yes that is true, but those people should come under a permanent application, NOT a temp one. I obviously have my own personal reasons for wishing the process was quicker and easier etc...but I also am a proud Canadian and I definitely do not want people sneaking in under temporary visas. Who knows anything about a visitor on a temp visa? At least with a permanent visa they will have provided much more info and have been checked out much more completely.

Temp visa timeframes are all posted on the websites of the embassies. Refusal or acceptance is all the same.
What caused them to allow the temp visa the second time was probably the fact that we were already following thier preferred procedure of a permanent visa application. Because we were already following the rules we are less likely to screw up our chances by breaking them now.

Let me ask a question then...So she manages to get a temp visa...and you bring her here. You marry, don't marry, whatever. Your health takes a turn for the worse and she is left here alone in Canada. What happens then?

 

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I have already submitted my financial documents and have more than enough to cover her expenses.
All my documents have been sworn under The Notary Public.

I have already paid for her ticket to and from Canada. If we get married I have already secured her
future. She will not be stranded.

I would have gone the permanent route, however our intentions were Canada first and Marry in
the Philippines and come back to Canada. All this within a 6 month span.

I'm not complaining, I'm just annoyed with the 'Not Knowing' side of things. I just don't like surprises.
Their... just doing their thing... is still playing with people heads. I can see how one Visa official can easily
decide Yes or No on 'their own free will' no matter what the qualifications. And this to me is not following
protocol, it's above the law.

I see no harm whatsoever in applying for temp visa to meet just get to know someone better. Permanent
visas come with more commitments and longer stay periods. It also contains riskier application approvals.
If you get rejected for a Permanent Visa it also denies me to open a new Sponsorship application.

So again... Do I want to risk it all now? Absolutely Not! I would much rather
try the temp way first and the proceed from here, thank you very much.

 

[frolic]

There is no surprises involved.

They tell you the time frames for getting your answer on the embassy website. They will never tell you beforehand by phone or email because if they did then EVERYONE would be bugging them for an early answer. So nope...they will never answer.

They are not playing with peoples heads at all. You just don't want to accept the fact that the path you have chosen to take is not an easy one or a simple one. As for above the law, they are asked to make a very difficult judgment call. Try to read the intent of people coming to Canada, to make sure they are following the rules. They know the score, they have statistics and previous applicants histories to guide them, and their regulations. If they decide that her visiting you for 6 months looks like one big long date leading to marriage and that she has nothing at home that would make her likely to return home, they will just say No. Unlike you they have no emotional involvement in the decision and will decide based on what is best for Canada.

And like they say on the website, "Please remember that although you may provide documentation in support of an application of a friend, relative, or business contact, the decision of the visa officer is ultimately based on the applicant’s circumstances, and not on any personal or financial guarantees that you or others may be prepared to offer on that person’s behalf."

 

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I totally disagree with you.

There is a surprise element!

And I do think they already know whether or not the applicant will be accepted within the
first 3 days of review. It doesn't take a mad scientist to investigate true facts.

Yes, I agree that its not I that's applying, however I do have the right to speak out as if were.
To me it appears that you are protecting the one sacred thing you have so much as fought
and finally achieved success for your relationship.

Well... here's hats off to you! Congratulation!

As I explored this discussion forum I was appalled at all the grievances loved ones were experiencing.
I understand there's a certain risk involved allowing people to visit. However if the facts are true
and there's no reason to believe there's a risk of endangering our country, then a foreign wife/
husband shouldn't have to go through the agony of separation.

And another thing... we live in a much more sophisticated time. It's a good thing we don't live
in the future where people could eventually transport themselves from point-to-point anywhere
in the world they want. Now.... wouldn't that be a scary thought?

Okay, so the above example is perhaps a little off for our time and space, however we don't live
behind the Berlin Wall anymore. Google... for Pete's sake can pinpoint exactly on a map where
you are this very second.

I read on the site that over 30 million visited Canada in 2008! Now that's amazing! And I don't
think you're going find any 1st time applicants that successfully received their Temporary Visa
on this forum. Why would they, right? After all they received what they wanted. And I also believe
that out of these 30 million visitors a relationship was a clear indication. My bet is as high as 40%
or more.

Re: You said...
They know the score, they have statistics and previous applicants histories to guide them, and their regulations.

Fantastic! Where are these statistics? Where are these histories?

It would help to understand. But you know what? This information forum is not about helping
those that want the real truth. There isn't any. Unless a true Visa Officer or a Retired Visa Officer
can enlighten us with clear cut and sound advice, all individuals will be (and SHOULDN'T be) left
guessing. Period!

Experience tells us that we need to explore, test, investigate, share and become involved
socially and professionally, before we make a final decision with our choices. So a Temp
Resident Visa is exactly that opportunity. No matter what reason we have chosen (except crime)
an application shouldn't be refused because two people are in love and want to meet.

Why must we lie? This is where the real problem is. And to be honest with you I don't
think an Authority should refuse something as harmless as LOVE and Prosperity. This is
exactly the opposite of Hate and Destruction.

I'm not hiding from the truth of how things operate.

Re: You said....
You just don't want to accept the fact that the path you have chosen to take is not an easy one or a simple one.

No.... you are wrong! I REFUSE to accept the fact. It's simply not good enough.

 

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I'm not one to entertain that thought. I'd rather not pass judgment.
However, after reading much of grievances that goes on in much
these people lives, I decided to investigate certain criteria CIC want
to see before approving an application.

And I must say... it's totally SICK! I mean the information they want
is totally vague and questionable.

So what is my opinion on... 'Why is CIC so mysterious'?

To be truthful... I don't know.

And it's completely unfair. Why must we play a guessing game on what they are looking for?
I mean... why does CIC need to be so secretive. Are they scamming the public? What gives here?

For example:

If CIC wants clear and concise evidence that the applicant will return to their
original country, then why tell us a Return Ticket is optional? Shouldn't it be compulsory?
It doesn't state on the application that this is necessary. Its clearly mark as optional.

Here's another look on what they want.
If you are going to visit family or friends, you need to provide your own proof of income
and funds to demonstrate your financial situation in the Philippines. You may also provide
the following:

• A letter of invitation from your relative or friend that includes their full name, address,
telephone and fax numbers, your name and relationship to the inviter,
the intended duration of the visit, and a statement concerning who will pay for the trip expenses.

Right here they want to know the relationship.
Ok now... do I tell them the truth or do I lie?

If the applicant is applying for a Temp Visa, should they say a friend?
What if the applicant says Fiance(e) - ?
Does this mean immediate refusal? This is soooo... sick.

• A copy of citizenship or immigration status document (to demonstrate that they are
legally in Canada) of the person inviting you.

Okay no harm here.

• For the person who will pay for your trip, please supply financial supporting documents
to prove that they can afford to support this visit, including reliable and verifiable
information from a third party source of your host's income, employment letter and
proof of funds.

Please provide financial documents?
Ok fine. But how much do they constitute as affordable? There's no guideline or
suggested amounts.

Proof of funds...
Ok. No problem - Again what amounts qualify?


So what is my hypothesis why CIC is doing this?

Although I do agree there's a High Criteria on Security. But... come on! Give me
a break! It's the White Collar Communities where the dangers lie. Not the
simple everyday individual with no association or connection to dangerous
history backgrounds.

Perhaps the refused individuals on this forum are hiding something themselves.

So why CIC is doing this... hmm... My Hypothesis

1) They want to keep their jobs.
2) They want to appear as they make a difference to our Country.
3) They are broke and they need to pocket some more money for their swimming
pool they installed last summer.
4) They like to toy and laugh about certain applications.
5) They like to make people sweat.


Okay seriously though...

It's all too mysterious to me. If I really wanted to investigate deeper I'd probably have
a different opinion, but at the moment I'm not impressed with the standards. There is
simply no standard, no clear and straight forward guideline.

What is their perfect role model applicant look like on paper? Show us! And tell us
how they came to their conclusion to accept or decline the applicants. There are
no statistics or facts online - If there is, where are they and why?

 

[frolic]

What I have found is they give you the timeframe for how long it will take and stick to it although I hear sometimes if they want to check more they will just take longer. Whether they decide in the first day or in the 15th day when they send it back is just a guess on your part.

The behind the scenes workings are probably more than just "Read an application and decide". They will likely look at your paperwork, see if your notary exists, maybe see if he has ever been caught in any fishy business in previous applications, they could send a request to CRA to see if your income as stated is actually on your last tax return and have to wait for the result, they could look up the applicant and see if anything makes them suspect criminality and then ask CSIS to look them up too perhaps and wait. There are many combinations and permutations of what they may or may not do that you are not even considering.

I am not protecting anything, I am a Canadian and can respect the fact that these rules are there to try to protect Canada and it's people from being taken advantage of by foreign citizens.

If the facts are true and everything seems above board then you will get a temp visa. If they look fishy, like it seems to sound from your description of the situation and questions then they may just well refuse.

Out of the 30 million visitors many of them would not even NEED a visa...coming from visa exempt countries. A few were my cousins even. They just show up at the airport. visit and tour around, and leave. There might have been relationships or even family connections, but it is no where near 40% you quote. Most will be just tourists.

I hope you didn't lie on the application...that will just have the applicant banned from applying again for a time if they suspect that.

You know what is affordable yourself in Canada, you LIVE here after all.

Why would they give you a perfect role model applicant? People would just look that up and lie to meet the criteria.

Your conspiracy theories are just bitterness that you have to go through the same process as EVERYONE ELSE. Of just lack of understanding of the process and reasons for the process. Educate yourself more and you might not think this way.

I know someone who got a temp visa for his GF first try. I know someone who brought a fiancee to visit. First time when we were refused we had a return ticket, 2nd time we didn't until after we got the visa because I didn't want to pay for cashing in a flight.

In the end each applicant (That means HER, not YOU) will be looked at individually and they will decide given their rules and experience in the matter. We went under that same microscope and despite actually having no intention to get married in Canada and she was going to go home after the visit we were refused. It sucked for sure and we were sad mad pissed and disheartened. In your case it might look like you are inviting her just to get her into Canada even MORE...and they may say no. Wait for your answer and see.

 

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Okay I give up!

My intentions are not in the least bit to defraud anything. And I strongly disagree
that an applicant will get refused because they mentioned marriage or other. I
think the problem is either the host and/or applicant are providing inaccurate
information.

And yes I strongly agree that the officers should investigate anything that's fishy.
Although I think many people, myself included are getting the wrong impression from
this forum.

Relationships have nothing to do with refusing in an application. The problem lies in the
documentation process, nothing more.

One a last note, information is scattered everywhere throughout all related websites. Perhaps
some applicants are trying to get through illegally. But I'm not one of these people. And my fiancee
required my help to with an Invitation letter. That means my documents have 50% relevancy in
getting her to Canada.

My facts are 100% accurate.

 

[frolic]

The internet is 90% complaining and 10% praising. Any impression you get from this site should be taken with a grain of salt because of that.

The relationship isn't the issue...it is the permanent/temporary intent. The relationship just makes it more likely you are leaning toward permanent. Do you not agree that someone moving here should be checked out MORE before they are allowed to come? Especially if they come from a country where there is a history of immigration issues such as overstays and illegal stayers? A visitor...if they are a simple visitor, can come and visit and leave and I would have no issue. In the end if they intend to stay they should be vetted more. And since some are trying to get here illegally too we ALL have to be checked out the same way. Including you.