Question about citizenship by descent

[Blorgus]

Hi!

I've been looking into pathways into Canada lately. My grandpa was Canadian, my grandma is a citizen and I've always been very proud of the connection. As a child I learned english so I could talk to grandpa over the phone. I've visited a few times and loved it! I currently live in Poland.
Someone elsewhere suggested I look into eligibility for citizenship so I would like to ask about some additional insight about this topic.
Some info:
My Grandfather was Polish-Canadian. He was born and raised in Canada and served in the Navy. He was not my mother's father - he married my grandmother before I was born.
My Grandmother is a Canadian citizen. We moved her back to Poland with us to take care of her after Grandpa passed a few years ago.
I took the IRCC "Am I Canadian?" test out of curiosity, and noticed this segment:
"When my parent was born or adopted, my grandparent was a Canadian citizen (or a British subject, born or naturalized in Canada before 1947) who was employed outside Canada as a Crown servant."
If I select this as applicable, it takes me to a result that says "You are probably a Canadian citizen". Does serving in the Royal Navy make my grandpa a Crown Servant? Would an appropriate step to take be, for example, looking into my Grandpa's service history?
Realistically, do these family ties help my case for Citizenship by descent or PR at all? I realize I'm probably making a huge reach here but honestly this has honestly been very difficult to research between the overwhelming amount of tabs, pages and forms.

Thanks for your time and sorry for the trouble.

 

[hawk39]

My Grandfather was Polish-Canadian. He was born and raised in Canada and served in the Navy. He was not my mother's father - he married my grandmother before I was born.

So you're saying that this person you're calling your grandfather is not your mother's biological father? Did he officially adopt your mother? If he did not, then you can't claim citizenship by descent through him even if he was a Crown servant.

If this is the case, then, with the upcoming legislative changes, your grandmother may be your pathway for citizenship by descent. However, as the current text of the legislation suggests, second generation applicants such as yourself must have a parent that has resided in Canada for at least 1095 days before the applicant's birth, known as the substantial connection test. Does your mother satisfy this test?

 

[abff08f4813c]

I'm guessing of course that OP's mom was born in Poland rather than Canada? Because a Canadian birth would make most of this discussion moot.

So you're saying that this person you're calling your grandfather is not your mother's biological father? Did he officially adopt your mother? If he did not, then you can't claim citizenship by descent through him even if he was a Crown servant.

But OP says this,

he married my grandmother before I was born.

I might be missing something here but from https://www.therileyfirm.ca/toronto-paternity-lawyer/#:~:text=Presumed Paternity&text=According to the Ontario Children's,to death, divorce, or annulment

a man is presumed to be a child’s father if:

He was married to the mother when the child was born

If I'm following correctly and not missing anything, this seems to suggest that the grandfather would be legally presumed to be the father of OP's mother (a process known as Legitimation), which in turn would make him the grandfather of OP.

 

[Blorgus]

I'm guessing of course that OP's mom was born in Poland rather than Canada? Because a Canadian birth would make most of this discussion moot.



But OP says this,




I might be missing something here but from https://www.therileyfirm.ca/toronto-paternity-lawyer/#:~:text=Presumed Paternity&text=According to the Ontario Children's,to death, divorce, or annulment



If I'm following correctly and not missing anything, this seems to suggest that the grandfather would be legally presumed to be the father of OP's mother (a process known as Legitimation), which in turn would make him the grandfather of OP.

Thank you for your valuable insight! Unfortunately, I am doubtful this applies to me. The timeline is as follows:

1. My mother is born to a Polish family in Poland
2. Her biological father passes away
3. When my mom is somewhere between ages 19-22, my grandmother leaves Poland for Canada
4. While in Canada, my grandmother meets and marries a Canadian (my grandfather)
5. My grandmother becomes a citizen
6. Around a decade later I am born

With my mom being an adult when my grandmother remarried, I doubt she can be subject to legitimization?
In all honesty, I wasn't even aware my Canadian grandpa wasn't my "real" grandpa until I was already in my teenage years - we had an amazing relationship, loved each other dearly, and I visited multiple times by my grandparents' invitation before I even found out. They even flew out to Poland to attend my first communion, a big deal in Poland, haha. There were plans to bring me over so I can go to college in Canada - unfortunately, grandpa passed right as I finished high school. Grandma flew me and my mom out to assist with taking care of various affairs after his death, such as helping her execute his will etc, but I doubt that makes me present in any record or legitimizes me as his grandson.
Apologies if this is too much stuff that doesn't really bring anything into the legal aspect of the conversation, but I wanted to provide additional context and highlight the complex nature of the situation (and also I got a bit nostalgic haha)

Thank you so much for your time.

 

[canuck78]

Thank you for your valuable insight! Unfortunately, I am doubtful this applies to me. The timeline is as follows:

1. My mother is born to a Polish family in Poland
2. Her biological father passes away
3. When my mom is somewhere between ages 19-22, my grandmother leaves Poland for Canada
4. While in Canada, my grandmother meets and marries a Canadian (my grandfather)
5. My grandmother becomes a citizen
6. Around a decade later I am born

With my mom being an adult when my grandmother remarried, I doubt she can be subject to legitimization?
In all honesty, I wasn't even aware my Canadian grandpa wasn't my "real" grandpa until I was already in my teenage years - we had an amazing relationship, loved each other dearly, and I visited multiple times by my grandparents' invitation before I even found out. They even flew out to Poland to attend my first communion, a big deal in Poland, haha. There were plans to bring me over so I can go to college in Canada - unfortunately, grandpa passed right as I finished high school. Grandma flew me and my mom out to assist with taking care of various affairs after his death, such as helping her execute his will etc, but I doubt that makes me present in any record or legitimizes me as his grandson.
Apologies if this is too much stuff that doesn't really bring anything into the legal aspect of the conversation, but I wanted to provide additional context and highlight the complex nature of the situation (and also I got a bit nostalgic haha)

Thank you so much for your time.

Sounds like you do not qualify for citizenship unless your mother has spent a substantial amount of time in Canada that wasn’t mentioned.

 

[armoured]

Thank you for your valuable insight! Unfortunately, I am doubtful this applies to me. The timeline is as follows:

1. My mother is born to a Polish family in Poland
2. Her biological father passes away
3. When my mom is somewhere between ages 19-22, my grandmother leaves Poland for Canada
4. While in Canada, my grandmother meets and marries a Canadian (my grandfather)
5. My grandmother becomes a citizen
6. Around a decade later I am born

With my mom being an adult when my grandmother remarried, I doubt she can be subject to legitimization?

Yes, since your mom was an adult when your grandmother became a citizen, she has no claim to citizenship, and neither do you.

 

[abff08f4813c]

With my mom being an adult when my grandmother remarried, I doubt she can be subject to legitimization?

Correct. I'm now not sure if your mother was even a Canadian citizen herself, considering..

Sounds like you do not qualify for citizenship unless your mother has spent a substantial amount of time in Canada that wasn’t mentioned.

Even this wouldn't help unless there's evidence that the mother became a citizen. And adoption wouldn't have been possible considering that the mother was an adult when the grandparents married, so we can rule that out too.

but I doubt that makes me present in any record or legitimizes me as his grandson.

Also correct, he's actually your step-grandfather. And for immigration purposes I think step- relations only count if established while still a child - but since your mom was an adult...

Apologies if this is too much stuff that doesn't really bring anything into the legal aspect of the conversation, but I wanted to provide additional context and highlight the complex nature of the situation

No this is good, having the full picture makes it much easier to understand and figure out which set of requirements (if any) you could fit into - or if there are none.

 

[Seym]

@Blorgus you've got your answer above. The one thing I would add is the following :
Have a look at family sponsorship if you're still interested. Your grandmother cannot sponsor your mum outright as she's adult and your grandma probably didn't support her since she was 22, and she can't sponsor you either since you have a living parent, your mum.
That being said, Canadian citizen (or PR) who doesn't have a living relative who's also a citizen/PR, and doesn't have any family member they can sponsor through the usual pathways (minor/dependant children, parents, orphaned siblings and others) can sponsor one, and only one blood relative irrespective of their age. If that's the case of your grandma, maybe she can do that for you. Have a look at https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/family-sponsorship/other-relatives/who-you-can-sponsor.html or Google the sponsorship programs.
In your situation, this is potentially the only difference your grandma's status makes VS someone else considering immigration to Canada.

 

[scylla]

@Blorgus you've got your answer above. The one thing I would add is the following :
Have a look at family sponsorship if you're still interested. Your grandmother cannot sponsor your mum outright as she's adult and your grandma probably didn't support her since she was 22, and she can't sponsor you either since you have a living parent, your mum.
That being said, Canadian citizen (or PR) who doesn't have a living relative who's also a citizen/PR, and doesn't have any family member they can sponsor through the usual pathways (minor/dependant children, parents, orphaned siblings and others) can sponsor one, and only one blood relative irrespective of their age. If that's the case of your grandma, maybe she can do that for you. Have a look at https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/family-sponsorship/other-relatives/who-you-can-sponsor.html or Google the sponsorship programs.
In your situation, this is potentially the only difference your grandma's status makes VS someone else considering immigration to Canada.

For the above to be possible, grandmother would need to be physically living in Canada and also meet the income requirements to sponsor a relative.

 

[Seym]

@scylla true. I missed the part in OP's first message where he says his grandma is back to Poland. Well, if she ever crosses the ocean again...

 

[Blorgus]

Also correct, he's actually your step-grandfather. And for immigration purposes I think step- relations only count if established while still a child - but since your mom was an adult...

I see, I assume step-relations also only count for 1st generations, so grandpa entering the family before I was born does not make him my "step-grandpa" in any degree that matters in terms of immigration?

Thanks everyone for your valuable input! I can tell that you guys really know your stuff and you put in a great deal of attention and good faith to answer my questions. I appreciate it greatly!

 

[scylla]

I see, I assume step-relations also only count for 1st generations, so grandpa entering the family before I was born does not make him my "step-grandpa" in any degree that matters in terms of immigration?

Thanks everyone for your valuable input! I can tell that you guys really know your stuff and you put in a great deal of attention and good faith to answer my questions. I appreciate it greatly!

He's not related to your by blood. The only way this relationship helps you is if he formally adopted your mother (most likely this would have needed to happen while she was a minor).

When you were born vs when he became part of the family has no relevance.