PRTD on humanitarian and compassionate grounds

[Copingwithlife]

And apparently the health care services are slow and inefficient - you will be better off keeping her in home country. People travel back to their home country or US to get treated.

And these words of wisdom coming from someone who couldn’t meet their residency obligations. If it’s that bad , and you want to put down the system , just renounce your PR . Google “ How to renounce one’s PR “
But betting you won’t, yup, you won’t



https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/in-trouble-calling-out-all-out-of-ro-people-for-advice.754180/

 

[canadiangirl2312]

And these words of wisdom coming from someone who couldn’t meet their residency obligations. If it’s that bad , and you want to disparage the system , just renounce your PR .
But betting you won’t

Every country has advantages and dis-advantages sir - there is no need to get offended. I wont renounce my PR and you wont tell me what i should do

 

[Copingwithlife]

Every country has advantages and dis-advantages sir - there is no need to get offended. I wont renounce my PR and you wont tell me what i should do

Not offended . And you asked how to renounce . I gave you information
Your welcome

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/rennouncing-pr-and-applying-for-a-work-permit-to-re-apply-for-the-pr.754186/

 

[canadiangirl2312]

Not offended . And you asked how to renounce . I gave you information
Your welcome

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/rennouncing-pr-and-applying-for-a-work-permit-to-re-apply-for-the-pr.754186/

Thank you.

 

[canuck78]

Correct me if I am wrong, but my lame understanding (I am not in medical field) is that dialysis is what you do when someone's kidneys are failing. It's a procedure whereby the blood is filtered of toxic elements and fresh blood is infused. Not doing dialysis to someone who truly needs it is an equivalent of killing them, since no one can survive for long if their kidneys are failing. Wouldn't it, by definition, be an emergency? Would the PR be turned away from ER upon third visit, when they had to get dialysis?

Suppose I am a PR and destitute/homeless, don't have any money to pay for medical services. Now, we have a team of lawyers working for each hospital here and they are happy to sue anyone with an outstanding balance over $500.00. But what do you think happens when they sue homeless man (supposing they can serve him through some relative)? They surely win the case in court, but then they collect nada, zilch, zero. There is nothing to collect from someone who doesn't have assets/any means to pay. And the homeless man can go back to ER 365 times a year: if he has an emergency the hospital will have no choice but to serve him. It's a law.
Is it any different in Canada? If it is , please share that information here, it's important one (which would also show how third-world mentality rules and it is just a "dog eat dog world" there for destitute people in dire need of ER care, or PRs who don't yet qualify for state sponsored coverage).

As to qualification, I know it doesn't take ages to qualify for coverage in Alberta. In Ontario there is longer wait period and there are obnoxious bureaucrats who deny coverage to PRs with COPR, if they don't have a valid PR card. Therefore I suggested that OP's spouse could travel to and stay with her daughters in Alberta.

But let's leave the OP's case aside for a second and inquire about hypothetical: what if perfectly healthy and self-sufficient Canadian lives in Alberta, has a full medical coverage and then one day develops medical condition that is life threatening, unless regularly treated. What happens if such person decides to move to Ontario? Is that person denied medical coverage in Ontario (until he resides there long enough) , and denied any medical coverage in the interim, unless he pre-pays for those services? How chronically ill people move around Canada and maintain coverage? Are they confined to province where they already have it?

P.S. I don't make assumptions about what OP and wife intend to do. I just noted that daughter lives in Alberta and she could stay there until her medical coverage issues are settled.

Most dialysis patients are not bed bound or hospitalized. They are able to return to their home country if a payment plan is not possible. Hospitals will want to see a plan for payment or a plan for someone to return home. Most are on dialysis for years. Some are still able to work and if you can travel to Canada you are like
to return home the next week.

To qualify for health coverage in Alberta you must remain in Alberta for the first 12 months and make Alberta you permanent home. I a, unsure whether not having a valid PR card will be a barrier from receiving an AHS card in Alberta.

The provinces have health coverage agreements for people who move. Alberta would cover the cost of care for 3 months if the person had lived in Alberta over a year until a person qualifies for OHIP.

 

[jakklondon]

Most dialysis patients are not bed bound or hospitalized. They are able to return to their home country if a payment plan is not possible. Hospitals will want to see a plan for payment or a plan for someone to return home. Most are on dialysis for years. Some are still able to work and if you can travel to Canada you are like
to return home the next week.

It doesn't matter if they are bedridden or not. One will die of toxic elements in blood, unless they are filtered out. That function is performed by kidney. If someone needs dialysis then they are as good as someone with malfunctioning or not functioning kidneys. They will die without dialysis. Not on the day of discharge (after dialysis), but after the next dialysis due date, which must occur to clean their blood of accumulating poison in it. Suppose she returns to ER after w while, on the verge of death (because she didn't have her next dialysis as she should have), will Canadian ER staff ask her about papers/arrangements to pay and insurance card? Or will they get busy saving her life? Can hospital ER team say "We saved your life too many times, you didn't pay us for a single care we provided, so now you can go and jump from the roof of One Canada Square"? Can they?

To qualify for health coverage in Alberta you must remain in Alberta for the first 12 months and make Alberta you permanent home. I a, unsure whether not having a valid PR card will be a barrier from receiving an AHS card in Alberta.

Where do you get your information from? It looks to me like in Alberta the waiting period is from zero to three months, see below.

Moving from outside Canada
If you are moving, immigrating, or returning to Alberta from outside Canada, you might be eligible for coverage from the date you established residency.

You must apply within 3 months of establishing residency and provide all the required documents.

If your AHCIP application is not received within 3 months of when you arrive and establish permanent residency in Alberta, the effective date of your coverage will be determined when your application is processed. Learn how to apply for AHCIP.
https://www.alberta.ca/ahcip-moving-to-alberta.aspx

It seems like it is not a "dog eat dog world" in Alberta, as it is in Ontario. I bet it's also less "progressive" and "liberal', and more conservative than Ontario.

The provinces have health coverage agreements for people who move. Alberta would cover the cost of care for 3 months if the person had lived in Alberta over a year until a person qualifies for OHIP.

I got that.

 

[jakklondon]

Every country has advantages and dis-advantages sir - there is no need to get offended. I wont renounce my PR and you wont tell me what i should do

He is not offended, he is actually aggressively trying to offend. Must be one of them, Orwellian bureaucrats, in service of Triple Hermetic Secret Worshippers.

 

[canuck78]

It doesn't matter if they are bedridden or not. One will die of toxic elements in blood, unless they are filtered out. That function is performed by kidney. If someone needs dialysis then they are as good as someone with malfunctioning or not functioning kidneys. They will die without dialysis. Not on the day of discharge (after dialysis), but after the next dialysis due date, which must occur to clean their blood of accumulating poison in it. Suppose she returns to ER after w while, on the verge of death (because she didn't have her next dialysis as she should have), will Canadian ER staff ask her about papers/arrangements to pay and insurance card? Or will they get busy saving her life? Can hospital ER team say "We saved your life too many times, you didn't pay us for a single care we provided, so now you can go and jump from the roof of One Canada Square"? Can they?



Where do you get your information from? It looks to me like in Alberta the waiting period is from zero to three months, see below.

Moving from outside Canada
If you are moving, immigrating, or returning to Alberta from outside Canada, you might be eligible for coverage from the date you established residency.

You must apply within 3 months of establishing residency and provide all the required documents.

If your AHCIP application is not received within 3 months of when you arrive and establish permanent residency in Alberta, the effective date of your coverage will be determined when your application is processed. Learn how to apply for AHCIP.
https://www.alberta.ca/ahcip-moving-to-alberta.aspx

It seems like it is not a "dog eat dog world" in Alberta, as it is in Ontario. I bet it's also less "progressive" and "liberal', and more conservative than Ontario.



I got that.

To qualify for healthcare in Alberta you must remain in Alberta for 12 months. That does not mean you won’t have access to date on day 1. If you don’t plan on staying in Alberta for 12 months you don’t meet the tesidency requirements to receive healthcare

Dialysis is a planned treatment. If someone arrives in Canada and goes into the emergency room they will be given dialysis if their blood values indicate they need it. A social worker and account manager will also arrive and ask about payment arrangements, future payments if treatments is needed and how long they were planning on remaining in Canada/whether they have a flight home. If they can’t afford treatment they will start talking about how to facilitate their travel home, financial support from family/friebds, contact with the home country embassy, etc.

 

[jakklondon]

To qualify for healthcare in Alberta you must remain in Alberta for 12 months. That does not mean you won’t have access to date on day 1. If you don’t plan on staying in Alberta for 12 months you don’t meet the tesidency requirements to receive healthcare

You must intend to stay for 12 months, but you can get coverage from day one (as long as you have a right to reside permanently and intend to stay there for at least a year). I guess, if OP's spouse's life depends on it, she can intend and stay in Alberta as long as she must (alternative being lack of medical care and sure death).

Dialysis is a planned treatment. If someone arrives in Canada and goes into the emergency room they will be given dialysis if their blood values indicate they need it. A social worker and account manager will also arrive and ask about payment arrangements, future payments if treatments is needed and how long they were planning on remaining in Canada/whether they have a flight home. If they can’t afford treatment they will start talking about how to facilitate their travel home, financial support from family/friebds, contact with the home country embassy, etc.

It looks like it may not be necessary if she moves to Alberta, where she can qualify for medicare from day 1.

 

[canuck78]

You must intend to stay for 12 months, but you can get coverage from day one (as long as you have a right to reside permanently and intend to stay there for at least a year). I guess, if OP's spouse's life depends on it, she can intend and stay in Alberta as long as she must (alternative being lack of medical care and sure death).



It looks like it may not be necessary if she moves to Alberta, where she can qualify for medicare from day 1.

If you don’t plan on staying for 12 months you aren’t supposed to apply. There is still no guarantee she would get AHS without a valid PR card or proof that you have been living in Canada and meet the RO if you don’t have a valid PR card. I have not heard whether it is still possible.

 

[armoured]

If you don’t plan on staying for 12 months you aren’t supposed to apply.

I'd note, provinces can (and sometimes do) go after cost recovery after the fact if it turns out the resident didn't meet the terms under which the health insurance was granted (eg retrospectively). Obviously they would likely prioritize cases where costs were higher.

 

[jakklondon]

If you don’t plan on staying for 12 months you aren’t supposed to apply.

I think you didn't read my comment, Below is what I stated:

You must intend to stay for 12 months, but you can get coverage from day one (as long as you have a right to reside permanently and intend to stay there for at least a year). I guess, if OP's spouse's life depends on it, she can intend and stay in Alberta as long as she must (alternative being lack of medical care and sure death).

There is still no guarantee she would get AHS without a valid PR card or proof that you have been living in Canada and meet the RO if you don’t have a valid PR card. I have not heard whether it is still possible.

There is no guarantee that our car won't break down in the middle of the highway.

That being said, I don't see that one "must have valid PR card" as a requirement to get medicare in Alberta, It's not on the government's website, which I linked in my post earlier.

FYI, PR Card is just a card, even deported from Canada and stripped of PR status alien can have it. Having a valid PR status is what matters, which a lot of people without valid PR cards have (including those who lived in Canada for decades and never bothered to renew their PR card). COPR is one of the documents (along with PR Card) that can be used to prove that you are a landed PR. If provincial government wants to check someone's current PR status, neither PR Card nor COPR will do it. The only way is to contact Canadian Immigration and check with Federal agency in charge (which they are more than welcome to do, assuming applicant is a PR, holding a valid PR status). There is no legal grounds to discriminate against PR with valid PR status who has no PR Card.

The government website states in no uncertain terms that you must be Canadian or PR to qualify for medicare in Alberta. And Alberta government has zero/nada/zilch to do with RO, it's not their job to do the federal immigration agency's job, and it would be grossly ILLEGAL of them to demand RO compliance of PR who was waived in by the border officials without being reported. In the eyes of law if one is a PR, holding a valid PR status, then overstepping the boundaries of provincial government authority and taking vigilante stand to enforce RO (which is none of Alberta's business) would be grossly illegal.

I encourage PRs facing such grossly illegal and discriminatory treatment from bureaucrats in local government to consider filing the law suits in courts and demanding compensation for damages: sue the individual employees of government discriminating you as well as the government who hires and protects them. Always fry the feet of Goliaths.

 

[canuck78]

I think you didn't read my comment, Below is what I stated:

You must intend to stay for 12 months, but you can get coverage from day one (as long as you have a right to reside permanently and intend to stay there for at least a year). I guess, if OP's spouse's life depends on it, she can intend and stay in Alberta as long as she must (alternative being lack of medical care and sure death).



There is no guarantee that our car won't break down in the middle of the highway.

That being said, I don't see that one "must have valid PR card" as a requirement to get medicare in Alberta, It's not on the government's website, which I linked in my post earlier.

FYI, PR Card is just a card, even deported from Canada and stripped of PR status alien can have it. Having a valid PR status is what matters, which a lot of people without valid PR cards have (including those who lived in Canada for decades and never bothered to renew their PR card). COPR is one of the documents (along with PR Card) that can be used to prove that you are a landed PR. If provincial government wants to check someone's current PR status, neither PR Card nor COPR will do it. The only way is to contact Canadian Immigration and check with Federal agency in charge (which they are more than welcome to do, assuming applicant is a PR, holding a valid PR status). There is no legal grounds to discriminate against PR with valid PR status who has no PR Card.

The government website states in no uncertain terms that you must be Canadian or PR to qualify for medicare in Alberta. And Alberta government has zero/nada/zilch to do with RO, it's not their job to do the federal immigration agency's job, and it would be grossly ILLEGAL of them to demand RO compliance of PR who was waived in by the border officials without being reported. In the eyes of law if one is a PR, holding a valid PR status, then overstepping the boundaries of provincial government authority and taking vigilante stand to enforce RO (which is none of Alberta's business) would be grossly illegal.

I encourage PRs facing such grossly illegal and discriminatory treatment from bureaucrats in local government to consider filing the law suits in courts and demanding compensation for damages: sue the individual employees of government discriminating you as well as the government who hires and protects them. Always fry the feet of Goliaths.

Most websites do not post whether you need to show a valid PR card to health card. In the case of PRs who have lived in Canada continuously but don’t have a valid PR card most are able to show that they have been living in Canada and get a health card. Yes people have the option to take the government to court. That will cost money and during that period you will need to pay for care. There are no guarantees you will get damages. The province may just be directed to give the person a health card. Lots of what ifs and upfront costs. Sponsoring the spouse again would eliminate all this uncertainty..

 

[jakklondon]

Most websites do not post whether you need to show a valid PR card to health card. In the case of PRs who have lived in Canada continuously but don’t have a valid PR card most are able to show that they have been living in Canada and get a health card.

Point is: you must be PR with valid PR status (has nothing to do with having or not having PR Card) to qualify for medicare in Alberta. Demand to show valid PR Card is capricious and arbitrary and , therefore, illegal.

Yes people have the option to take the government to court. That will cost money and during that period you will need to pay for care.

Everything in life costs money You have to pay to get anything. Why not pay to punish Orwellian bureaucrat in service of Triple Hermetic Secret Worshippers?

There are no guarantees you will get damages.

There are no guarantees you won't be stricken by lightning tomorrow.

The province may just be directed to give the person a health card. Lots of what ifs and upfront costs. Sponsoring the spouse again would eliminate all this uncertainty..

Why not battle Goliath? At least for the sake of pleasure of fighting Goliath! I am always for mercilessly fighting bullies, wrongdoers and Orwellian bureaucrats. Amount of pleasure in fighting itself can't compare to whatever pleasure you get from desired outcome. Fight alone is worth it.
Sponsoring spouse would deprive someone of such a great pleasure.

 

[canuck78]

Point is: you must be PR with valid PR status (has nothing to do with having or not having PR Card) to qualify for medicare in Alberta. Demand to show valid PR Card is capricious and arbitrary and , therefore, illegal.



Everything in life costs money You have to pay to get anything. Why not pay to punish Orwellian bureaucrat in service of Triple Hermetic Secret Worshippers?




There are no guarantees you won't be stricken by lightning tomorrow.



Why not battle Goliath? At least for the sake of pleasure of fighting Goliath! I am always for mercilessly fighting bullies, wrongdoers and Orwellian bureaucrats. Amount of pleasure in fighting itself can't compare to whatever pleasure you get from desired outcome. Fight alone is worth it.
Sponsoring spouse would deprive someone of such a great pleasure.

Many people don’t have the money or the time to sue the government especially when you could sponsor someone within the same period.