PRTD on humanitarian and compassionate grounds

[mmab50]

Hi all,

We migrated in March 2012 (husband, wife and son), husband and son on track for residency obligation, however, wife just lived 5 months in 2012 and did'nt come to Canada since then. She has been on dialysis since 2014 back home and now wants to return to Canada to live with husband and son. As PR cards expire but not the residency status, my question is what are the chances of getting PRTD if applied on humanitarian and compassionate grounds as her husband, son and his family, two daughters and their families are in Canada as citizens and Permanent residents. Or else the entry through US land border in a private car travelling with husband having COPR would be better option. Your valuable suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks

 

[scylla]

Hi all,

We migrated in March 2012 (husband, wife and son), husband and son on track for residency obligation, however, wife just lived 5 months in 2012 and did'nt come to Canada since then. She has been on dialysis since 2014 back home and now wants to return to Canada to live with husband and son. As PR cards expire but not the residency status, my question is what are the chances of getting PRTD if applied on humanitarian and compassionate grounds as her husband, son and his family, two daughters and their families are in Canada as citizens and Permanent residents. Or else the entry through US land border in a private car travelling with husband having COPR would be better option. Your valuable suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks

What will she use as her H&C reasons for being outside of Canada? The key for the PRTD H&C application will be to explain why she had to remain outside of Canada and provide evidence of this. The dialysis alone wouldn't explain that. So there must be other reasons?

Which province are you living in out of curiosity? She will need to reactivate her health card which could potentially be tricky.

 

[mmab50]

Thanks scylla, I lived and partly worked in Alberta and Ontario. Currently in Ontario, GTA. I came back to India to take care of her on April 5, 2021 as my second daughter who used to take care her medical conditions during my absence has moved to Canada (Alberta). Now my daughter insists to bring her back to Canada so that she can well be taken care of. Main reason for her absence is that she has to manage her property here in India and somehow did not want to live in Canada. I even file her taxes until 2017 with no income but I am filing my taxes regularly and I am on track in all aspect. Now that her property on rental and will make arrangement with the tenants to deposit rent into her bank account. I just want to try for PRTD, if rejected, they will cancel her residency status and may be we will reapply afresh. How about bringing her from US land border in a private car along with me? will that be easier than PRTD? Your valuable thoughts would be much appreciated.

 

[scylla]

Thanks scylla, I lived and partly worked in Alberta and Ontario. Currently in Ontario, GTA. I came back to India to take care of her on April 5, 2021 as my second daughter who used to take care her medical conditions during my absence has moved to Canada (Alberta). Now my daughter insists to bring her back to Canada so that she can well be taken care of. Main reason for her absence is that she has to manage her property here in India and somehow did not want to live in Canada. I even file her taxes until 2017 with no income but I am filing my taxes regularly and I am on track in all aspect. Now that her property on rental and will make arrangement with the tenants to deposit rent into her bank account. I just want to try for PRTD, if rejected, they will cancel her residency status and may be we will reapply afresh. How about bringing her from US land border in a private car along with me? will that be easier than PRTD? Your valuable thoughts would be much appreciated.

IMO she does not have a strong case for applying for PRTD under H&C. She remained outside of Canada out of personal choice and to manager her business. This isn't an H&C reason for failing to meet RO. So most likely the PRTD is going to be refused. However yes, then you can certainly sponsor her for PR through spousal sponsorship.

You can also try having her fly to the US (assuming she has a US visa) and then entering Canada through a land border and hoping she's allowed in without being reported. She will definitely be allowed into Canada. It's just a question of whether she will be reported by CBSA or not for failing to meet RO. Make sure you understand the COVID testing requirements if you're going to go with this option. Your wife will need to take a specific COVID test once she arrives in the US and then wait for the results to be negative before entering Canada.

 

[jakklondon]

Hi all,

We migrated in March 2012 (husband, wife and son), husband and son on track for residency obligation, however, wife just lived 5 months in 2012 and did'nt come to Canada since then. She has been on dialysis since 2014 back home and now wants to return to Canada to live with husband and son. As PR cards expire but not the residency status, my question is what are the chances of getting PRTD if applied on humanitarian and compassionate grounds as her husband, son and his family, two daughters and their families are in Canada as citizens and Permanent residents. Or else the entry through US land border in a private car travelling with husband having COPR would be better option. Your valuable suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks

Don't apply for PRTD, unless you just want to have her PR status formally stripped. There is no H&C ground for it. They will say she could sell/rent her property and get dialysis in Canada, and deny her PRTD application. If you want to have her status stripped (so you can sponsor her de novo) , then there might be another form and faster way to get it done than to apply for PRTD (check on it).

As to an option to cross US border, if she can get to US then sure, she can also travel to Canada by land. But since early 2000's the Orwellian Triple Hermetic Secret Worshippers made the US-Canada border something like a point of crossing the gates at the high security prison for hard-core criminals. Everyone is looked upon as a heinous criminal, and must be inspected extremely carefully and RO is apparently one of the greatest immigration sins they look for. Border officers on the ground can be very hostile, intimidating and show aggressive attitude (even of you are in full compliance, newly admitted PR). Irony is that at the very same time thousands of illegals cross the same border unlawfully (and among them are some of the most dangerous people you can imagine, unlike an elderly woman in dialysis who passed security checks and was granted PR by Canada). There are thousands of so called refugees that recently arrived from one well known country who have no documents absolutely to prove their identity, but in the eyes of Canada they are all good and dandy. RO is a different story. So, be prepared for extensive grilling, secondary inspection and reporting (although, it's also possible that none of it will occur, it all depends on her luck and border officer that examines her).

Anyway, if you want to bring her into Canada by land, you can do that. As long as she is still PR, they will have no choice but to let her in , even if they want to deport her. They will file a report and you will have a time to appeal it. But, as poster above said, she has no valid H&C grounds (based on what you related), so should she get reported her chances of overcoming the deportation will be slim.

Good luck to you and your wife.

 

[armoured]

You can also try having her fly to the US (assuming she has a US visa) and then entering Canada through a land border and hoping she's allowed in without being reported. She will definitely be allowed into Canada. It's just a question of whether she will be reported by CBSA or not for failing to meet RO.

If the spouse requires dialysis, this route of entering as a PR - potentially reported or not - bears extremely significant financial risks, and not at all clear that she could get private insurance or provincial health insurance for quite some time. This risk exists even in the event that she was waved through and simply let to reside in Canada - with expired PR card, there may be no way to get provincnial health coverage for a year or more.

I would not recommend taking this approach of entering Canada unless certain that the (potential) financial costs are arranged in advance, and with some certainty. Note that unlike some foreign jurisdictions, in many/most provinces it may not be possible to make private arrangements for dialysis at all (not an expert on this of course).

 

[mmab50]

Thanks ALL for your kind guidance.

 

[canuck78]

Agree that given she needs dialysis there is no way I would risk returning without having a valid PR card. Even if she does return to Ontario, if the 3 month wait period has returned to receive OHIP you are likely looking at significant expense if you have to pay out of pocket for dialysis.

 

[jakklondon]

Agree that given she needs dialysis there is no way I would risk returning without having a valid PR card. Even if she does return to Ontario, if the 3 month wait period has returned to receive OHIP you are likely looking at significant expense if you have to pay out of pocket for dialysis.

1. OP said he worked in Alberta and Ontario. His daughter has moved to Alberta. His wife doesn't have to go to Ontario. She can, instead, arrive to Alberta, where she can stay with her daughter while her Canadian med coverage issues are resolved. Alberta's provincial government institutions are not yet "thirdworldificized" like Ontario's, and they don't have that prison mindset ("this is dog eat dog world", "everyone is everyone's wolf" and etc.). She will be able to get her med coverage fairly quickly.

2. Even if she arrives to Toronto and is uninsured, if her medical condition is an emergency and poses life-threatening risks, she will be treated regardless of her medical coverage.

 

[armoured]

2. Even if she arrives to Toronto and is uninsured, if her medical condition is an emergency and poses life-threatening risks, she will be treated regardless of her medical coverage.

If there were a competition ongoing for stupidest advice possible, this would be a contender; but the day is young and plenty of time for even more advanced idiocy.

Yes, someone needing dialysis would get treated. That doesn't mean it will be free.

The financial costs - and any complications that might arise - may still accrue to the individual, and quite possibly be onerous.

Don't travel unless you know what the situation is, how treatment will be obtained, and by whom it will be paid.

 

[jakklondon]

It is amusing to see how some individuals whose credibility has been utterly destroyed and shattered, still have audacity to engage in silly and futile personal attacks.
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/do-cbsa-officers-at-the-airport-have-exit-records.752479/post-9870151.

One has to wonder if these posters are working at one of those Orwellian agencies that employ morons who violate PR's rights, and therefore have such knee-jerk reaction to opinions grounded on simple and widely known facts. Or if they are just plain morons.

It is beyond any dispute that if anyone has emergency medical condition, they will receive ER medical treatment in any province of Canada, including Ontario, regardless of having or not having an insurance. We also know that Alberta doesn't have the third-world country/prison like mentality (as in "this is dog eat dog world" or "everyone is everyone's wolf") when it comes to health coverage, and its' treatment of PR's who have COPR and who haven't resided in the province for 20 years is humane and consistent with the Canadian law that entitles PRs to a coverage.

When morons and knee-jerks run out of arguments, the only ammunition they are left with are ad hominems. For which they will always remain in our ignore list.

 

[canuck78]

It is amusing to see how some individuals whose credibility has been utterly destroyed and shattered, still have audacity to engage in silly and futile personal attacks.
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/do-cbsa-officers-at-the-airport-have-exit-records.752479/post-9870151.

One has to wonder if these posters are working at one of those Orwellian agencies that employ morons who violate PR's rights, and therefore have such knee-jerk reaction to opinions grounded on simple and widely known facts. Or if they are just plain morons.

It is beyond any dispute that if anyone has emergency medical condition, they will receive ER medical treatment in any province of Canada, including Ontario, regardless of having or not having an insurance. We also know that Alberta doesn't have the third-world country/prison like mentality (as in "this is dog eat dog world" or "everyone is everyone's wolf") when it comes to health coverage, and its' treatment of PR's who have COPR and who haven't resided in the province for 20 years is humane and consistent with the Canadian law that entitles PRs to a coverage.

When morons and knee-jerks run out of arguments, the only ammunition they are left with are ad hominems. For which they will always remain in our ignore list.

One or 2 sessions of dialysis while arranging payment or a return flight home is likely to be fine but you will not get ongoing dialysis without payment in place. Ongoing dialysis while flights to your home country are available isn’t emergency treatment. It can also be difficult to find an empty space to get dialysis especially if you don’t have provincial insurance. When you get emergency treatment in the ER once you are stabilized someone from accounting comes to speak with you about how you will be paying for treatment. I assume the wife isn’t planning on living with her daughter for over a year and will want to live with her husband in Ontario which is why I was referring to OHIP.

 

[jakklondon]

One or 2 sessions of dialysis while arranging payment or a return flight home is likely to be fine but you will not get ongoing dialysis without payment in place. Ongoing dialysis while flights to your home country are available isn’t emergency treatment. It can also be difficult to find an empty space to get dialysis especially if you don’t have provincial insurance. When you get emergency treatment in the ER once you are stabilized someone from accounting comes to speak with you about how you will be paying for treatment. I assume the wife isn’t planning on living with her daughter for over a year and will want to live with her husband in Ontario which is why I was referring to OHIP.

Correct me if I am wrong, but my lame understanding (I am not in medical field) is that dialysis is what you do when someone's kidneys are failing. It's a procedure whereby the blood is filtered of toxic elements and fresh blood is infused. Not doing dialysis to someone who truly needs it is an equivalent of killing them, since no one can survive for long if their kidneys are failing. Wouldn't it, by definition, be an emergency? Would the PR be turned away from ER upon third visit, when they had to get dialysis?

Suppose I am a PR and destitute/homeless, don't have any money to pay for medical services. Now, we have a team of lawyers working for each hospital here and they are happy to sue anyone with an outstanding balance over $500.00. But what do you think happens when they sue homeless man (supposing they can serve him through some relative)? They surely win the case in court, but then they collect nada, zilch, zero. There is nothing to collect from someone who doesn't have assets/any means to pay. And the homeless man can go back to ER 365 times a year: if he has an emergency the hospital will have no choice but to serve him. It's a law.
Is it any different in Canada? If it is , please share that information here, it's important one (which would also show how third-world mentality rules and it is just a "dog eat dog world" there for destitute people in dire need of ER care, or PRs who don't yet qualify for state sponsored coverage).

As to qualification, I know it doesn't take ages to qualify for coverage in Alberta. In Ontario there is longer wait period and there are obnoxious bureaucrats who deny coverage to PRs with COPR, if they don't have a valid PR card. Therefore I suggested that OP's spouse could travel to and stay with her daughters in Alberta.

But let's leave the OP's case aside for a second and inquire about hypothetical: what if perfectly healthy and self-sufficient Canadian lives in Alberta, has a full medical coverage and then one day develops medical condition that is life threatening, unless regularly treated. What happens if such person decides to move to Ontario? Is that person denied medical coverage in Ontario (until he resides there long enough) , and denied any medical coverage in the interim, unless he pre-pays for those services? How chronically ill people move around Canada and maintain coverage? Are they confined to province where they already have it?

P.S. I don't make assumptions about what OP and wife intend to do. I just noted that daughter lives in Alberta and she could stay there until her medical coverage issues are settled.

 

[armoured]

But let's leave the OP's case aside for a second and inquire about hypothetical: what if perfectly healthy and self-sufficient Canadian lives in Alberta, has a full medical coverage and then one day develops medical condition that is life threatening, unless regularly treated. What happens if such person decides to move to Ontario?

Canada Health Act has portability requirements between provinces:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Health_Act#Portability

Covers moving between provinces. There's also coverage required for travel eg emergency services within Canada, electives are separate. (Provinces can cover some of these when travelling but details can vary quite a lot)

 

[canadiangirl2312]

If the spouse requires dialysis, this route of entering as a PR - potentially reported or not - bears extremely significant financial risks, and not at all clear that she could get private insurance or provincial health insurance for quite some time. This risk exists even in the event that she was waved through and simply let to reside in Canada - with expired PR card, there may be no way to get provincnial health coverage for a year or more.

I would not recommend taking this approach of entering Canada unless certain that the (potential) financial costs are arranged in advance, and with some certainty. Note that unlike some foreign jurisdictions, in many/most provinces it may not be possible to make private arrangements for dialysis at all (not an expert on this of course).

And apparently the health care services are slow and inefficient - you will be better off keeping her in home country. People travel back to their home country or US to get treated.