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My husband just had an interview in Rabat

Habibti

Hero Member
Apr 4, 2011
804
44
Vancouver, Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
Rabat, Morocco
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
08-02-2011
File Transfer...
31-03-2011
Med's Done....
10-01-2011 / 06-09-2012
Interview........
12-09-2011 / Denied 4-11-2011
VISA ISSUED...
January 9, 2013
LANDED..........
January 18, 2013 in Montreal
I just talked to my husband on the phone. He just had interview at the visa office of Rabat.

I think we will be refused. I feel just like crying. The interview lasted 40 minutes and the officers did not want our emails or pictures even though my husband wanted to give them.

They told him they must do a criminal investigation, something about security. My husband laughed at that as he did nothing wrong and he told them. They said the investigation will take 4 to 6 months.

They told him that there are 2 possibilities. He might get a refusal letter in 2 months or a acceptance letter in 4 to 6 months. The husband whose wife is also in Canada who passed an interview before my husband was told there are 99% chances he will get his visa.

Even though I feel quite low and depressed, my husband said he has a good feeling. He answered very well the questions.

Since when they mention a criminal investigation in an interview??? What do you think? Is it normal procedures?
 

dair2dv8103100

Hero Member
Aug 6, 2010
992
19
Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
Rabat
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
19.05.11
AOR Received.
16.08.11
File Transfer...
26.07.11
Med's Done....
28.02.11/19.03.12
Interview........
06.03.12
Passport Req..
28.05.12
VISA ISSUED...
20.06.12
LANDED..........
Aug 1, 2012 :)
Did he live in another country at any time?
 

Habibti

Hero Member
Apr 4, 2011
804
44
Vancouver, Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
Rabat, Morocco
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
08-02-2011
File Transfer...
31-03-2011
Med's Done....
10-01-2011 / 06-09-2012
Interview........
12-09-2011 / Denied 4-11-2011
VISA ISSUED...
January 9, 2013
LANDED..........
January 18, 2013 in Montreal
Never. He never went out of his country. This is what I don't understand!
 

dair2dv8103100

Hero Member
Aug 6, 2010
992
19
Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
Rabat
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
19.05.11
AOR Received.
16.08.11
File Transfer...
26.07.11
Med's Done....
28.02.11/19.03.12
Interview........
06.03.12
Passport Req..
28.05.12
VISA ISSUED...
20.06.12
LANDED..........
Aug 1, 2012 :)
And no criminal convictions? Never arrested? Or taken into custody and released?

What kind of work does he do? Was he ever in school for police or armed guard?
 

Habibti

Hero Member
Apr 4, 2011
804
44
Vancouver, Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
Rabat, Morocco
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
08-02-2011
File Transfer...
31-03-2011
Med's Done....
10-01-2011 / 06-09-2012
Interview........
12-09-2011 / Denied 4-11-2011
VISA ISSUED...
January 9, 2013
LANDED..........
January 18, 2013 in Montreal
dair2dv8103100 said:
And no criminal convictions? Never arrested? Or taken into custody and released?

What kind of work does he do? Was he ever in school for police or armed guard?
No, nothing like that. He is a devoted muslim with strong values. He inspires me to be a better person. I have never seen someone walking so straight in the right path...

He has studied to be an English teacher. After he studied to be a welder and did some paint courses. He worked as a painter and he works sometimes for his grand-father store. These days he works in a book store.
 

CharlieD10

VIP Member
Sep 5, 2010
5,849
185
123
Northern Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
KGN
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
15-02-2011
File Transfer...
09-05-2011
Med's Done....
17-01-2011, 08-03-2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
30-3-2012
VISA ISSUED...
13-04-2012
LANDED..........
06-06-2012
I checked in early this morning to see if you had reported on it yet, just now getting a chance to check again and see this post.

Background checks can be started at any point in the process, and may be initiated or on-going or not started when they request an interview.

I am surprised they would ask your husband to bring additional proof of contact but refuse to look at them, and then mention refusing the application. What was the point then of asking him to bring it? Did he mention any other specific questions they asked him?
 

Habibti

Hero Member
Apr 4, 2011
804
44
Vancouver, Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
Rabat, Morocco
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
08-02-2011
File Transfer...
31-03-2011
Med's Done....
10-01-2011 / 06-09-2012
Interview........
12-09-2011 / Denied 4-11-2011
VISA ISSUED...
January 9, 2013
LANDED..........
January 18, 2013 in Montreal
CharlieD10 said:
I checked in early this morning to see if you had reported on it yet, just now getting a chance to check again and see this post.

Background checks can be started at any point in the process, and may be initiated or on-going or not started when they request an interview.

I am surprised they would ask your husband to bring additional proof of contact but refuse to look at them, and then mention refusing the application. What was the point then of asking him to bring it? Did he mention any other specific questions they asked him?
No, it was the usual questions: how and when we met, our wedding, my son, my work, where I live, the age difference, etc.

I want to mention that they phoned him on June 27 to ask him to pay for permanent residence fees as soon as possible and to send more pictures and more emails. My husband did all that the following day. And I am quite at a loss as when they phoned him on June 27, they asked him lots of questions on the phone and my husband asked if there was anything wrong with our application and they said no. Also he was told that the chances were good for him to go to Canada with me once I return to Canada (I went visiting him from July 2 to August 4).
 

CharlieD10

VIP Member
Sep 5, 2010
5,849
185
123
Northern Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
KGN
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
15-02-2011
File Transfer...
09-05-2011
Med's Done....
17-01-2011, 08-03-2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
30-3-2012
VISA ISSUED...
13-04-2012
LANDED..........
06-06-2012
Hmm. There has to be crossed lines somewhere inside Rabat, because asking someone to pay the RPRF, then interviewing them and telling them they may be refused sends extremely contradictory messages.

Requesting the RPRF is a sign they are preparing to give someone the right to land as a PR (i.e. issue the visa), which of course they can only do if someone pays that fee.

If you have not done so before, I suggest you write something to the Program Manager at the embassy, and outline all of these events so far. Get it in writing that you are confused by the request to pay the RPRF, then your husband being told he could be refused following his interview. The two things are supposed to be mutually exclusive and in a situation like this I think I would want it on record that one person is telling your husband one thing, and another is telling him the exact opposite.

If (God forbid) this whole situation comes down to an appeal, having this in writing should give you a fair shot at being able to bring up "procedural fairness" issues. They can't be allowed to get away with implying they are preparing to give him the visa, then arbitrarily changing their minds. If they had doubts regarding the relationship (hence the convocation of your husband for the interview), then the request for the RPRF should never have been made at the time that it was.

This process is stressful enough on us, without the embassy behaving as if it a) doesn't know what it is doing or b) being perverse or capricious in its decision-making processes or c) both.
 

dair2dv8103100

Hero Member
Aug 6, 2010
992
19
Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
Rabat
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
19.05.11
AOR Received.
16.08.11
File Transfer...
26.07.11
Med's Done....
28.02.11/19.03.12
Interview........
06.03.12
Passport Req..
28.05.12
VISA ISSUED...
20.06.12
LANDED..........
Aug 1, 2012 :)
I agree with CharlieD

I would be getting all this in writing and informing the embassy. You want to make sure this is recorded. You and I both know how corrupt Morocco is and I think you should cover your butts in this case.

This sounds so unusual compared to others on here. Gives me the jitters. I am getting so afraid of what they are going to put us through.

I really wish you all the best and that they just were confused and get the rectified soon.
 
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ddobro2

Champion Member
May 4, 2011
2,589
38
123
Montreal, QC Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo, NY
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Brilliant advice. It's too bad they obviously aren't following protocol over there and that we're the ones who have to keep them on their toes.
CharlieD10 said:
Hmm. There has to be crossed lines somewhere inside Rabat, because asking someone to pay the RPRF, then interviewing them and telling them they may be refused sends extremely contradictory messages.

Requesting the RPRF is a sign they are preparing to give someone the right to land as a PR (i.e. issue the visa), which of course they can only do if someone pays that fee.

If you have not done so before, I suggest you write something to the Program Manager at the embassy, and outline all of these events so far. Get it in writing that you are confused by the request to pay the RPRF, then your husband being told he could be refused following his interview. The two things are supposed to be mutually exclusive and in a situation like this I think I would want it on record that one person is telling your husband one thing, and another is telling him the exact opposite.

If (God forbid) this whole situation comes down to an appeal, having this in writing should give you a fair shot at being able to bring up "procedural fairness" issues. They can't be allowed to get away with implying they are preparing to give him the visa, then arbitrarily changing their minds. If they had doubts regarding the relationship (hence the convocation of your husband for the interview), then the request for the RPRF should never have been made at the time that it was.

This process is stressful enough on us, without the embassy behaving as if it a) doesn't know what it is doing or b) being perverse or capricious in its decision-making processes or c) both.
 

Habibti

Hero Member
Apr 4, 2011
804
44
Vancouver, Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
Rabat, Morocco
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
08-02-2011
File Transfer...
31-03-2011
Med's Done....
10-01-2011 / 06-09-2012
Interview........
12-09-2011 / Denied 4-11-2011
VISA ISSUED...
January 9, 2013
LANDED..........
January 18, 2013 in Montreal
Thank you Charlie and Dair. So if I write to the manager of the embassy, I would have to send my letter to Rabat?

I must say I have been having unusual cases all my life lol lol It is not the first time I find myself in a situation that other people don't experience. It is like God created a path of its own for me lol A very odd one...
 

Habibti

Hero Member
Apr 4, 2011
804
44
Vancouver, Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
Rabat, Morocco
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
08-02-2011
File Transfer...
31-03-2011
Med's Done....
10-01-2011 / 06-09-2012
Interview........
12-09-2011 / Denied 4-11-2011
VISA ISSUED...
January 9, 2013
LANDED..........
January 18, 2013 in Montreal
Why they said it will take 4 to 6 months to do the security checks, but we might get a refusal letter after 2 months? It does not make sense!!! They have to wait until all the security checks are done before refusing us!
 

CharlieD10

VIP Member
Sep 5, 2010
5,849
185
123
Northern Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
KGN
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
15-02-2011
File Transfer...
09-05-2011
Med's Done....
17-01-2011, 08-03-2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
30-3-2012
VISA ISSUED...
13-04-2012
LANDED..........
06-06-2012
Not necessarily. They can issue a Section 4 (bad faith marriage) refusal without the background checks being completed. There would be little point to proceeding to completion with background checks if they do not believe the relationship is genuine. Someone might have a perfectly clean background so far as criminality goes, and yet be involved in a MOC in order to gain status under IRPA.

Failing Section 4 means you are not even a member of the family class, so proceeding with admissibility checks like background, security and medical would be pointless, because they are not going to issue a visa to someone unless it can be shown that they are a member of the family class (first) and not inadmissible to Canada (second).
 

rjessome

VIP Member
Feb 24, 2009
4,354
213
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
CharlieD10 said:
If you have not done so before, I suggest you write something to the Program Manager at the embassy, and outline all of these events so far. Get it in writing that you are confused by the request to pay the RPRF, then your husband being told he could be refused following his interview. The two things are supposed to be mutually exclusive and in a situation like this I think I would want it on record that one person is telling your husband one thing, and another is telling him the exact opposite.

If (God forbid) this whole situation comes down to an appeal, having this in writing should give you a fair shot at being able to bring up "procedural fairness" issues. They can't be allowed to get away with implying they are preparing to give him the visa, then arbitrarily changing their minds. If they had doubts regarding the relationship (hence the convocation of your husband for the interview), then the request for the RPRF should never have been made at the time that it was.

This process is stressful enough on us, without the embassy behaving as if it a) doesn't know what it is doing or b) being perverse or capricious in its decision-making processes or c) both.
I like the way you think. However, since no decision has been rendered yet, it is not a good idea to contact the Program Manager yet. Here are the Rules of Procedural Fairness:

Rule of Procedural Fairness
Apply to all applications to Citizenship and Immigration Canada and to the Canada Border Services Agency. They apply in varying degrees depending on the type of application.

1. Officers should communicate adequately and accurately with applicants.

2. They should give applicants adequate notice regarding the process or the interview that will result or lead to a decision.

3. Officers should accurately describe to applicants the documentation they are required to submit in order to address their concern.

4. Officers must show diligence in processing applications without undue delay. Visa offices must not appear to frustrate processing through unacceptable delays. A delay that cannot be justified is a denial of procedural fairness.

5. “Whoever hears, must decide.” Note that “hear” in this context does not mean interview. It simply means the person with the legal authority to make a decision must do so. The law and policies are specific about who has authority to make decisions. When officers use their decision-making authority, they assess information.

If an officer is the only person who looks at information or deals with applicants, it is clear that they “heard” (not necessarily in an interview) and decided. When there is more than just the officer dealing with applicants, the person who hears and decides may be less clear. An applicant may present information to someone not authorized to make the decision, an intermediary, who must then pass all relevant information to the officer. The intermediary cannot assess the information for an officer and arrive at a decision. The record of decision must show that the officer made the decision after assessing all pertinent information from the applicant. Often, officers rely on subjective assessments to make decisions. If a decision hinges on such assessments (e.g., abilities in English or French, personal suitability or credibility), it must be clear to the applicant that the officer made the assessment. The decision-maker must render the decision based on complete information. Therefore, all documents provided by the applicant must be forwarded to the decision-maker for consideration. A decision-maker should not indicate that they simply concur with the recommendations of an intermediary. They must indicate that they have weighed all salient factors of the application and have made their own decision on the merits of those factors.

6. Applicants must have an opportunity to disabuse officers of any concerns. They must be allowed to bring evidence and to make an argument. This includes being provided with adequate translation/interpretation. Officers must consider all the evidence and record what they based their assessment on, and why they did not consider some of the evidence. Officers must meet this requirement in all cases, but to different degrees. The opportunity should be proportionate to the complexity of the application. With visitor visa applicants, officers should express their own concerns and record the applicant’s response in the case notes. The applicant must be made aware of the “case to be met,” i.e., the information known by the officer must be made available to the applicant prior to the decision being made. For example, if an officer relies on extrinsic evidence (i.e., evidence received from sources other than the applicant), they must give the applicant an opportunity to respond to such evidence. Permanent residence applicants and some visitors may need extra time to address any concerns. The record of the exchange must be more detailed in such cases. Officers should give factual and objective reasons for their decision.

7. Decisions must be based on Immigration and Refugee Act and Regulations. The provision of the act or Regulations must be cited in the record of a refusal. It is not acceptable to explain refusals with references to policies in any manuals or bulletins. All communications, including refusal letters, should direct the reader’s attention to the appropriate legislative provision.

8. Discretion must not be improperly fettered – If Immigration and Refugee Act and Regulations give officers complete authority to make a decision, they must clearly exercise that authority. Officers may, of course, take advice before making a decision. It should be plain to applicants, though, that officers have used their authority to decide freely. The record of decision should also indicate that, after weighing guidance among all relevant factors, officers came to their own conclusion. If officers tell applicants that a decision on their case is a result of advice from a superior, headquarters or procedures manuals, they restrain their discretion. They would be violating two other principles of procedural fairness, namely: (1) whoever hears must decide; and (2) applicants must have the opportunity to disabuse decision-makers of their concerns.

9. And finally, applicants must receive fair and equitable treatment; i.e., officers must be consistent in the treatment of applicants in similar situations.


In this case, only #9 has the slight chance of being applied in this matter with respect to RPRF being requested. But IMHO it would be unlikely to be given much weight as an interview had been convoked so no final decision had been made.
 

CharlieD10

VIP Member
Sep 5, 2010
5,849
185
123
Northern Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
KGN
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
15-02-2011
File Transfer...
09-05-2011
Med's Done....
17-01-2011, 08-03-2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
30-3-2012
VISA ISSUED...
13-04-2012
LANDED..........
06-06-2012
Thank you, rjessome, for that!

I agree with you that #9 is the only issue for procedural fairness, but here's why I would press it: the timing of the events with regard to the RPRF request and the interview convocation. The applicant was requested/advised to pay the RPRF and only AFTER this had been done (payment made), was he advised that he was being convoked to an interview. Habibti may need to correct me (I can't trace her posts just now) but he was also advised about the interview within less than 30 days of the interview date, if memory serves me correctly, or if it doesn't then it was still somewhat "short" notice.

Something about things happening in that sequence just screams to me that someone didn't know what they were doing. Here's an applicant whose sponsor has deferred payment of the RPRF until a decision has been made by the visa office, you advise her to go ahead and pay it (thereby implying that you are making a favourable decision)...and then you yank him into a hostile interview shortly thereafter and threaten to deny his application? Nobody needs to be subjected to that. That's either poor processing or poor communication (#1). Whatever it is, they've caused this couple a lot of unnecessary distress, IMO.

Further, not only do you yank him into a hostile interview, but you also refuse to consider documents and information YOU requested he bring to make his case! (#3?)

Well, Habibti, it looks like you have to wait another 60 days before you know what's going on...I wish you guys all the best, and hope you hear nothing (regarding a denial, that is) and that your husband's processing just proceeds to his background checks. You guys hang in there.