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dankboi

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Apr 19, 2021
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He's talking in a legal sense, not sure why you're taking it so literal.

He's an immigration lawyer, a good one at that so he's just telling you what it is.
he's just telling you what it is.

what it is- Canada owes applicants nothing. well if he hadn't revealed it I'd have been a future resident who would be very sincere to contribute the country. And now i don't wanna. cause i owe Canada nothing

future fsw residents: i owe Canada nothing
 

Psyoptica

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Feb 20, 2020
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Assuming an equal probability of being in this subset (for both November 2019 and November 2021), we can do a direct comparison.
But you can't do a direct comparison of Nov 2019 with Nov 21 as it's only been a day since IRCC has started issuing PPRs. Give it at least a couple of weeks.
Also a lot of pprs we have witnessed on this forum are not on the immitracker website which says a lot
 
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PRANIT01

Champion Member
Apr 12, 2021
1,332
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He's talking in a legal sense, not sure why you're taking it so literal.

He's an immigration lawyer, a good one at that so he's just telling you what it is.
Yeah when people wasted 1000s of $ and time for this .

Yes Canada owes you nothing, this clowns words pierced into my ears will take some time to fall in love with canada.
It is not about owing something but a matter of respect.
Even if he was the pm of canada that was too insensitive and callous .
 

ImpatientAlligator

Hero Member
Sep 7, 2021
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But you can't do a direct comparison of Nov 2019 with Nov 21 as it's only been a day since IRCC has started issuing PPRs. Give it at least a couple of weeks.
Also a lot of pprs we have witnessed on this forum are not on the immitracker website which says a lot
True dat. We'll get a better picture in a couple of weeks once the people with profiles on myimmitracker actually update. But, we at least know that there was no meaningful trickle till October.
 

Islander216

Champion Member
Nov 27, 2019
2,110
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he's just telling you what it is.

what it is- Canada owes applicants nothing. well if he hadn't revealed it I'd have been a future resident who would be very sincere to contribute the country. And now i don't wanna. cause i owe Canada nothing

future fsw residents: i owe Canada nothing
Key word is applicant, you're not a landed immigrant yet. That's the difference i'm talking about, your legal status hasn't vested yet from a legal standpoint. It doesn't mean there isn't an ethical commitment to be fair to applicants.

But hey, if you want to have this attitude, that's your prerogative. I just think it's a bit of a third world mentality.
 
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Islander216

Champion Member
Nov 27, 2019
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Yeah when people wasted 1000s of $ and time for this .

Yes Canada owes you nothing, this clowns words pierced into my ears will take some time to fall in love with canada.
It is not about owing something but a matter of respect.
Even if he was the pm of canada that was too insensitive and callous .
He should have framed what he said more diplomatically but to be honest from the attitude i see from people here, many immigrants have the same mentality.
 

PRANIT01

Champion Member
Apr 12, 2021
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Key word is applicant, you're not a landed immigrant yet. That's the difference i'm talking about, your legal status hasn't vested yet from a legal standpoint. It doesn't mean there isn't an ethical commitment to be fair to applicants.

But hey, if you want to have this attitude, that's prerogative. I just think it's a bit of a third world mentality.
Hmmm, I think I can give a perspective of this. After weighing a lot of pros and cons I wanted to make canada my home and contribute to canada as a Canadian and also wanted to be a part of that society.
Here comes covid 19 and shitface ,for him it was his ticket for his next job. I had to wait for 6 months for a draw(their country their rules totally understandable) ,now my application is in process the same prick I mentioned above ordered to put my application in back burner. After that one idiot comes out of nowhere and say yeah you idiot we don't owe you nothing. I am not sure whether you have heard about c29 law ,your citizenship can be cancelled (if you are involved in certain activities-understandable) but from what I understood the system is highly unpredictable and unstable, how should I trust a country and its institutions when they behave to me even before going there.

About 3rd world mentality, I don't know what kind of mentality is that humans were always migrating in terms of better pastures, If you call that 3rd world mentality I think we all are 3rd world here.
 

GandiBaat

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Key word is applicant, you're not a landed immigrant yet. That's the difference i'm talking about, your legal status hasn't vested yet from a legal standpoint. It doesn't mean there isn't an ethical commitment to be fair to applicants.
The person is same. If you treat him like shit on the way up, don't be surprised for him to be a bit jilted when he reaches there.

When you use "legal" definition on a person then do no expect him to use anything else as well. If its legal definition of PR that is what one uses then do not expect them to use legal definition of "obligations" too. At that point goodwill, alligience etc goes out of the window.

You cann't apply different standards to two party. You cannt apply legal obligations to Canada and ask (once prospective?) immigrants to use moral obligations.

If PR is a legal status, then obligations that come with it are purely legal too. Simple.
 
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Key word is applicant, you're not a landed immigrant yet. That's the difference i'm talking about, your legal status hasn't vested yet from a legal standpoint. It doesn't mean there isn't an ethical commitment to be fair to applicants.

But hey, if you want to have this attitude, that's your prerogative. I just think it's a bit of a third world mentality.
Applicants, people who have paid the cost of the service they're buying from IRCC, have some rights in this transaction if I'm not wrong. If I understood correctly, these rights are why we saw courts ordering IRCC to finalize some apps immediately in either rejection or approval. This was on the base of the legal agreement an applicant enters with IRCC upon paying for the service provided.

Third world mentality indeed; a govermental body not complying with the legal agreement signed between two parties upon the service being paid for by the client. Doesn't surprise me; it's Canada after all.
 

GandiBaat

VIP Member
Dec 23, 2014
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Doc's Request.
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26th September 2021
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Sent with application
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11-01-2022
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Not Applicable, Old Meds
Med's Done....
Old Medical
Interview........
Not Applicable
Passport Req..
22-02-2022
VISA ISSUED...
22-02-2022
LANDED..........
24-02-2022
About 3rd world mentality, I don't know what kind of mentality is that humans were always migrating in terms of better pastures, If you call that 3rd world mentality I think we all are 3rd world here.
Well, when the cards are down, its always "Our country first". Europe BANNED export of any vaccine or its component before they got their own people vaccinated. So did USA.

Heck, even now, people in 3rd world Africa are waiting for first does while in US / EU/ Canada they are preparing for booster doses!

To expect goodwill or morality from a beauracracy is a foolish expectation. Its a legal construct, so we should deal it in the similar manner -- with cold hard legal obligations and privileges and nothing more.

As someone very wise once said : "When the chips are down, these civilized (1st world) people will eat each other" :)
 
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Deleted member 1050918

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As someone very wise once said : "When the chips are down, these civilized (1st world) people will eat each other" :)
No idea who said that but sounds like he's just ahead of the curve whoever he is.
 

Islander216

Champion Member
Nov 27, 2019
2,110
1,338
Hmmm, I think I can give a perspective of this. After weighing a lot of pros and cons I wanted to make canada my home and contribute to canada as a Canadian and also wanted to be a part of that society.
Here comes covid 19 and shitface ,for him it was his ticket for his next job. I had to wait for 6 months for a draw(their country their rules totally understandable) ,now my application is in process the same prick I mentioned above ordered to put my application in back burner. After that one idiot comes out of nowhere and say yeah you idiot we don't owe you nothing. I am not sure whether you have heard about c29 law ,your citizenship can be cancelled (if you are involved in certain activities-understandable) but from what I understood the system is highly unpredictable and unstable, how should I trust a country and its institutions when they behave to me even before going there.

About 3rd world mentality, I don't know what kind of mentality is that humans were always migrating in terms of better pastures, If you call that 3rd world mentality I think we all are 3rd world here.
I have a lot of sympathy for the people who got caught up in delays associated with the pandemic, a lot. I understand there is a bit of anger which has built up during this period, because your applications are in limbo and your life is in some ways on hold.

It was an unkind thing to say, but i think as an immigration lawyer he is just telling you the legal aspects of the situation, and he would be right. When Express Entry was created in 2015, many applications which were backlogged under the old first come, first served system were cancelled. There's nothing they could do about it, it sucked but that was the reality. I think it's with this context that he had in mind when he said that, we can't create a liability when there is not legal basis to bind the other party. Your rights commence once you're a landed PR, not even when you're an approved PR. Otherwise the burden on IRCC would be too much, the 6 month timeline is indicative, it's a goal it doesn't mean it will always be the case because circumstances differ.

The person is same. If you treat him like shit on the way up, don't be surprised for him to be a bit jilted when he reaches there.

When you use "legal" definition on a person then do no expect him to use anything else as well. If its legal definition of PR that is what one uses then do not expect them to use legal definition of "obligations" too. At that point goodwill, alligience etc goes out of the window.

You cann't apply different standards to two party. You cannt apply legal obligations to Canada and ask (once prospective?) immigrants to use moral obligations.

If PR is a legal status, then obligations that come with it are purely legal too. Simple.
This is a fair point that i accept.

But again, it's not to say that there isn't an ethical guideline for processing applications and treating applicants. It's a similar basis for what i was saying when it came to immigrating, yes the legal context is just to obey the law and terms of your PR obligations, but it doesn't mean there isn't a sense of loyalty that shouldn't be created between the immigrant and the society they're integrating into. Certainly, in my opinion that opportunity to live and work permanently in a country is something that should create a sense of gratitude and goodwill.


Applicants, people who have paid the cost of the service they're buying from IRCC, have some rights in this transaction if I'm not wrong. If I understood correctly, these rights are why we saw courts ordering IRCC to finalize some apps immediately in either rejection or approval. This was on the base of the legal agreement an applicant enters with IRCC upon paying for the service provided.

Third world mentality indeed; a governmental body not complying with the legal agreement signed between two parties upon the service being paid for by the client. Doesn't surprise me; it's Canada after all.
You definitely have an expectation that your application will be processed, but it is subject to the realities which are affecting these government agencies such as the issues with the pandemic. But things are getting better, and i agree it shouldn't be used as a blanket excuse to waive any expectations applicants have that their applications should be processed in accordance with a reasonable timeline.

I'm just curious but what is your main gripe? Have you already submitted your AOR? What's your timeline?