Parents and Grandparents Sponsorship 2021

[nayr69sg]

I think you lose part of the fees. The full fees aren't refunded.

Oh. Ok! I guess then better not apply.

Maybe they should have a small admin fee for submitting ITA then? Maybe $5? Non refundable.

 

[YVR123]

Oh. Ok! I guess then better not apply.

Maybe they should have a small admin fee for submitting ITA then? Maybe $5? Non refundable.

$5 won't make a difference. It's cheaper than 649 or lottomax....

 

[nayr69sg]

$5 won't make a difference. It's cheaper than 649 or lottomax....

Lotto 649 is $3 without the extra. LottoMax is $5 without the extra.

So $5 is not cheaper than 649 and is same price at LottoMax. Should be quite an acceptable price for entering a lottery.

Revenues collected from the lottery entries can be used to improve the programs perhaps beef up website to include checks on CRA line 150 etc.

 

[scylla]

Oh. Ok! I guess then better not apply.

Maybe they should have a small admin fee for submitting ITA then? Maybe $5? Non refundable.

$5 isn't going to deter anyone IMO.

In terms of the fees if someone submits an application but doesn't qualify and is refused, I believe only the RPRF is refunded. The rest is not. And it shouldn't be. Work has gone into processing the application. That's not free and resources have been used up.

 

[YVR123]

Lotto 649 is $3 without the extra. LottoMax is $5 without the extra.

So $5 is not cheaper than 649 and is same price at LottoMax. Should be quite an acceptable price for entering a lottery.

Revenues collected from the lottery entries can be used to improve the programs perhaps beef up website to include checks on CRA line 150 etc.

I don't believe in lottery. I haven't bought anything for a long long time (649 was $2)... Saw my hubby paying $20 for one.. that's why I tho they are more expensive now.
Anyway, my point is $5 wont' do anything.

 

[nayr69sg]

$5 isn't going to deter anyone IMO.

In terms of the fees if someone submits an application but doesn't qualify and is refused, I believe only the RPRF is refunded. The rest is not. And it shouldn't be. Work has gone into processing the application. That's not free and resources have been used up.

I agree. It shouldn't be refunded.

We have discussed this before about entrance fees etc. I think having high entrance fees is a no. Allegations of being discriminatory etc will lead to lawsuits and all.

But there is nothing wrong in collecting a small admin fee to run the lottery. Running the lottery takes up resources. The fees collected can be put to good use to improve the system etc.

Try to think of win win solutions.

And seriously, there WILL BE PEOPLE out there when they have to pay $1 will say wait a minute I dont want to lose $1 for nothing if I am not eligible....let me make sure.....

 

[nayr69sg]

I don't believe in lottery. I haven't bought anything for a long long time (649 was $2)... Saw my hubby paying $20 for one.. that's why I tho they are more expensive now.
Anyway, my point is $5 wont' do anything.

You dont believe you will win. But the lottery is real. Not a hoax. Every week people do win it. It is possible. If you buy and try you have a chance. If you dont there is ZERO chance.

Your husband probably buys a combination of things. There is $20 pack which has 2 LottoMax 2 Lotto649 with extra 2 Local Lotto with extra

You might be surprised what simple $5 entry fee might have on reducing some nonsensical rubbish applications.

it is just that extra step you know.

Have to take out credit card or some payment method. Key in information. Confirm. Get receipt. Pay it.

People get to that stage if they are not serious they will exit the page. They will be like "what? I have to pay $5? Crap forget it man!"

So you will filter out those people. You don't want to believe that those kind of totally nonsense people take part in this lottery? Seriously they do take part! Sometimes it isn't even the person applying but the friend going "hey I can apply to this lottery for you! Do you want to try? I will do it for you!" Couple of clicks types and clicks all done. Whereas if have to pay $5.....friend either pays it (why would they) or the applicant is like what must pay $5? What is that about really?

Worst case scenario it doesn't reduce any ineligible applications at least you collected some money that can be used to offset the cost of administering the lottery.

I think it is totally worthwhile.

 

[nayr69sg]

Its not bashing .. its a temporal frustration. A normal person would definitely gets pissed off if his/her life decision is based on a helm of a lottery draft. In my opinion, this kind of frustration will last few days, or even bit longer if this is the first 1-3 times.

I still remember when govt stopped PGP program sometime in 2010-11 just because they were not able to process and there were >160K applications in their backlog. I was not eligible on 2011 but in between 2011-14 I was eligible to sponsor my dad and mom, but was not able to apply. The turn around time back then was 15-17 years (for my country, not sure about other), between which most of PGP would not survive to unite with their sons/daughters in Canada. This was the main reason govt gave up, stopped PGP program and introduced much hyped "Super visa", govt really glorified this back in 2011/12. At that time I was really pissed. Then come a new IMM minister, who introduced paper based application with 5K cap, from I think 2014, where they ask us to fight with each other in FIFO race to mail our application on or after Jan 1, which was so not fair to those not living in GTA. After first try I gave up ... The govt, a new party on power this time, on 2016 did little by changing it to lottery system (I guess on year on 2018 or 19 it was again FIFO but online) but still there are so many flaws in the system.

However, a lot has been done so far

1. Cap increased from 5K ot 20K
2. Processing time reduced from 15+ years to 2 years
3. Online system to apply EoI and now to apply PR, this is so much convenient, though it is not accessible to some of us

As you said, hang on our chance will come. In the mean time enjoy your life, keep visit your parents or ask them to come here, and most importantly, work on backup plan what is you do not get it, at least think about different path that is possible to you and your family.

Best of luck to all of us!

It was 2019 when they had the one off FIFO system.

We worked hard to get everything ready and in place. Worked with professionals. And we got a spot for my parents. So I am thankful they did that. Unfortunately sore losers decided to take a case to court and won. So it is unlikely we will ever see that online FIFO system ever again.

I do think there is a case for CIC to have different pathways.

For example there is nothing to stop them having 10k a year in a FIFO apply at the office system - think couriers and whatever AND a 10k per year lottery like we have now.

The caveat is you cannot do both. Either you try the queue or the lottery. If you get chosen in the lottery and have an existing accepted spot by going to FIFO then you will be disqualified.

Let people decide what works best for them. There are people who like lottery (usually those who are new or might not even qualify). There are also those who prefer to have more control of the possible outcome willing to spend some money to hire couriers and professionals to give themselves the best chance in the competition. (Usually those who have failed lottery for so many years and are frustrated and have the resources to pay).

So give people options perhaps could be a compromise and balance to make everyone somewhat satisfied?

 

[MuzafferQA]

is Aadhar card a national identity document or should we fill in the passport details under national identity document field for indians?

 

[PhdStream]

It was 2019 when they had the one off FIFO system.

We worked hard to get everything ready and in place. Worked with professionals. And we got a spot for my parents. So I am thankful they did that. Unfortunately sore losers decided to take a case to court and won. So it is unlikely we will ever see that online FIFO system ever again.

I do think there is a case for CIC to have different pathways.

For example there is nothing to stop them having 10k a year in a FIFO apply at the office system - think couriers and whatever AND a 10k per year lottery like we have now.

The caveat is you cannot do both. Either you try the queue or the lottery. If you get chosen in the lottery and have an existing accepted spot by going to FIFO then you will be disqualified.

Let people decide what works best for them. There are people who like lottery (usually those who are new or might not even qualify). There are also those who prefer to have more control of the possible outcome willing to spend some money to hire couriers and professionals to give themselves the best chance in the competition. (Usually those who have failed lottery for so many years and are frustrated and have the resources to pay).

So give people options perhaps could be a compromise and balance to make everyone somewhat satisfied?

I failed in paper based FIFO, failed in online FIFO (my web browser froze, so did my with my wife, we both were at our office , but good thing is my colleague was able to get it), and failed in this lottery for more than one time since 2014 (with some gap in between).. despite the flaws (being rigged by ineligible people, which needs to be improved), I prefer lottery. It treats everyone equally, irrespective of where we live, how fast is our connection, etc.

And I honestly, do not know what is the best system.

 

[nayr69sg]

I failed in paper based FIFO, failed in online FIFO (my web browser froze, so did my with my wife, we both were at our office , but good thing is my colleague was able to get it), and failed in this lottery for more than one time since 2014 (with some gap in between).. despite the flaws (being rigged by ineligible people, which needs to be improved), I prefer lottery. It treats everyone equally, irrespective of where we live, how fast is our connection, etc.

And I honestly, do not know what is the best system.

There is no best system. The problem is we do not have the resources to bring all parents and grandparents to Canada. So there will never be a system that satisfies everyone.

But hey the world is not fair. Does every immigrant who wants to come to Canada get to come to Canada?

Now if Canada had a lottery system for immigrants to come to Canada would you also say the same ie treats everyone equally, irrespective of where we live, how fast is our connection......

No right? And some would argue we want to bring in the best candidates as immigrants. Skills. Background checks etc. Maintain society. Improve talent pool.

I dislike lottery because it treats the whole process and everyone involved in it as a game. Trivial.

And despite what people say about fairness and what not.......life is not a game.

I cannot think of any important non sport based or game based limited resource or program that decides to distribute assistance or spots to people needing it based on a lottery. Certainly not jobs. Not healthcare. Not social assistance. Not pensions. Not education.

Can you imagine if how much we earned was decided by a lottery regardless what you studied how long you studied how much work experience you have? every year lottery decides how much you earn that year. We rotate every year. Sounds like a fair thing treats everyone "equally". Can you plan your life like that?

So why is PGP relegated to a lottery fair and acceptable. In the end those who support the lottery and say things like it is fair and what not treats everyone equally......they should have nothing to complain about. One advantage of lottery is that people who dont get it can tell themselves it was not their fault and there was nothing else they can really do so just leave it to fate. No guilt. The government also can say the same. Oh it is all a roll of the dice. No discrimination. All is fair and square. Don't blame me. Tough luck. Try again.

 

[2021parents]

Hello,
I am applying for my parents sponsor 2021.
My question is if our income for 2020 and 2019 is above the required.
but for 2018, it is a bit less than required.
Required is 68000 our combine 65000.

but we have significant savings here in Canada 50000+ also my wife recently got a better job (previous was only part time now she got full time job)
should we go ahead and apply or what?

what's your thoughts on this.

 

[Chaitanya Barot]

1.FIFO means In 2022 give some period to interested people to apply- Say 14 days. You receive 200000 applications. Rank them 1 to 200000 by lottery.
Now select them one by one until finished.
2. Next in 2023 again invite applications with same procedure & lottery. But they will stand in queue after 2022 applicants.
3. To give a chance to applicants of 2023, there can be a selection on the basis of FIFO & Lottery in the ratio of say 4:1.
4. This will reduce disappointment if not eliminate it to the earlier applicants as also a chance to new applicants.

 

[nayr69sg]

1.FIFO means In 2022 give some period to interested people to apply- Say 14 days. You receive 200000 applications. Rank them 1 to 200000 by lottery.
Now select them one by one until finished.
2. Next in 2023 again invite applications with same procedure & lottery. But they will stand in queue after 2022 applicants.
3. To give a chance to applicants of 2023, there can be a selection on the basis of FIFO & Lottery in the ratio of say 4:1.
4. This will reduce disappointment if not eliminate it to the earlier applicants as also a chance to new applicants.

As you rightly pointed out here there are ways that the system can be tweaked.

Unfortunately, as long as the majority of people continue to say things like "oh the lottery is the fairest, treats everyone equal etc" The system wont change.

Also complex systems are harder to sell.

Someone may open a lawsuit saying that system is too complicated and they cannot understand it thus represents discrimination, some people with better English skill are better able to understand and work around or in the system etc.

Many many many potholes.

 

[superboy_ec]

It would have been nice to you, your friend and other eligible sons/daughters if you and your friend asked this question before submitting EoI. Now he has already submitted the EoI, gotten an invitation and potentially wasted a spot (which would have potentially used by an eligible one), why not taking a chance and applying for PR. Its worth taking the risk, in the worst case you loose some $$ and time, given the possible outcome is being with parents. I hope you understood what I am actually trying to say.



A couple of "may be frustrated" sentences from eligible people from whom your friend potentially snatch a spot seems to be impolite to you. Now imagine how impolite your friend is, who submitted EoI knowing he might not eligible, and not even sparing his 5 mins reading the eligibility. which is easily available online for free. Sometime it hurts to know the reality, specially you are at the wrong side.

I think you are getting it all upside down. It seems like you did not read properly as it looks like your anger and frustration is not letting you see clear enough that I said “I agree with you in the sense there must be some additional pre screening parameters”. I was just asking for you to be more respectful and don’t get me wrong. Is not my problem that a friend of mine has made a booboo for the lack of a better word. So please, if you have some ideas, send them over to immigration and let them decide what is wrong or right. So do you still think I am in the wrong side?…