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Citizenship test: Collective action required, or expect endless delays, years. Example of the effective lobbyng of people awaiting spousal sponsorship

thesonicbro

Hero Member
Jul 24, 2016
212
81
It has been and will be the least priority of the Conservatives to care about immigrants. Let us not forget about the changes they made towards citizenship and physical residency.

I don't think any of the current political parties will ever fix the issue. It is the legal actions where things could get a little bit relieved.
 

anton1990

Champion Member
Dec 22, 2015
1,752
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North Battleford
Category........
PNP
Visa Office......
Sydney, NS
NOC Code......
2171
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Yes
App. Filed.......
14-04-2016
Nomination.....
21-04-2016
AOR Received.
11-07-2016
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02-05-2017
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08-12-2017
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14-01-2018
I am not sure whether this is a sincere query or not (this is one of those threads which tends to be more infected by trolling). Not just because it is hard to imagine anyone seriously contesting just how anti-immigrant the Conservative Party is, but especially considering the mischaracterization the query is premised on. I did NOT say that the "NDP is better for immigrants." In fact I said:
While the NDP has some MPs (such as Jenny Kwan) who are strong supporters of immigrants, as a party the conflict between labour union interests and some immigration policies results in some platform compromises that do not support immigrants as uniformly as the Liberals.

So no, I cannot prove what is contrary to what I said.

If you claim to be looking for evidence that the Conservative Party is the worst, I will concede that I am not sufficiently familiar with the Bloc Québécois history or current platform in regards to immigration policies to prove which is actually the absolute worst. I would note, however, that in many ridings where there is a Bloc Québécois candidate, voting Bloc Québécois likely amounts to an anti-immigrant vote because it increases the chances of a Conservative government. My not-all-that-well-informed (never seen a Bloc Québécois candidate on the ballot in the riding where I live or in any riding within a thousand km of here) impression is that as a more or less nationalist party the Bloc Québécois is probably at least as anti-immigrant as the Conservative Party.

Frankly, if you are challenging the characterization of the Conservative Party as the more or less anti-immigrant party compared to the Liberals or the NDP, that suggests the query is not sincere. That is in the vein of asserting "to go up, go down," given how utterly obvious this is.

While it hardly tells the whole story, and was published early this year before the season for making campaign promises began in earnest, the National Post (rarely kind let alone favourable to the Liberals) noted polls indicating:
. . . that those who identified themselves as Liberal supporters are much more supportive of immigration than self-identified Conservatives. According to the same EKOS poll, only 15 per cent of Liberals thought Canada was admitting too many members of visible minorities as new immigrants, while a whopping 69 per cent of Conservatives thought so.
. . . members of the Conservative base are not just socially conservative but many have an antipathy to increasing numbers of immigration of visible minorities to Canada.

It warrants noting that O'Toole has been making claims contrary to what he has historically advocated and contrary to what the Conservative Party has advocated and will almost certainly continue to advocate when it comes to actually governing. Language in the current Conservative Party platform referring to improving "fairness" in immigration proceedings echoes the meaning of "fair and balanced" in some U.S. media, which is oriented to what is fair for certain people . . . example, the Conservative Party wants to implement expedited immigration services for those who will pay extra. Fair for those with more money. Not really fair. Not close (especially not for families).

The membership of the Conservative Party itself embraces profoundly conflicting attitudes toward immigration and immigrants, much of their constituency rather militantly anti-immigrant, while among the leadership there is a recognition that certain types of immigration, focused on importing cheap labour, need to be supported in order to tip the economic balance in favour of big business. The more militant anti-immigrant members of the Conservative Party tend to be concentrated in Alberta. The members looking at how immigration can be a boon for big business tend to be concentrated in Ontario. Of course generalizations tend to unfairly paint some, and not all those driving the party these days are derived from the Jason Kenney camp, but the sheep's clothing should not be fooling anyone.

Politics has always been beleaguered with empty promises, but in recent years the gap between truth and lies, honesty and deception, has grown more pernicious and pervasive than I recall in the history of modern governments in the West.

Some say, and I at least partially agree, do not focus on what they say, watch what they do. So some real history may be illuminating:

Immigration path for Permanent Residency:
-- Conservatives let applications fall further and further into backlog and then abruptly, and not legally, terminated all skilled worker PR applications and told prospective economic class applicants to start over; since that was illegal, knocked down by the courts, Kenney's Parliament rammed through legislation to retroactively close all skilled worker applications​
-- Liberals have consistently increased numbers year after year​

Physical Presence Requirements for grant of citizenship:
Minimum presence in Canada:​
-- Conservatives implement a four year minimum presence requirement; minimum ratio: 66% (4/6 rule)​
-- Liberals revised the law to adopt a three year requirement; minimum ratio: 60% (3/5 rule)​
Pre-PR credit:​
-- Conservatives revised law to give NO credit for time in Canada prior to becoming a PR​
-- Liberals revised the law to give up to one year credit for time in Canada prior to becoming a PR​

Language and knowledge requirements for citizenship:
-- Conservatives adopted law requiring some children and all adults up to the age of 65 to meet language and knowledge of Canada requirements​
-- Liberals revised the law to not require children (immigrants under 18 at the time of making the application) or adults aged 55 or older to meet language and knowledge of Canada requirements​

Forced residency in Canada after applying:
-- Conservatives adopted an "intent to reside" requirement, which provided grounds for rejecting any citizenship applicant who was determined to be living outside Canada after applying​
-- Liberals immediately ceased enforcing that requirement and proceeded to repeal it​

Revocation of PR status:
-- Conservatives expanded grounds for revoking PR status and applied these retroactively (complicated issue involving refugees who become PRs -- see discussion elsewhere in this forum)​
-- Liberals, unfortunately, have done nothing to reverse the egregious injustices inflicted under the Conservative provision; NDP MP Jenny Kwan is among the very few who have made an effort to undue the harm inflicted by the Conservatives​

Grounds for revoking citizenship:
-- Conservatives adopted provisions for revoking citizenship validly obtained (even citizenship by birth) based on certain crimes; this was part of the Conservative governments much expanded policy to pursue revocation of citizenship generally​
-- Liberals repealed the provisions which would allow the government to revoke citizenship based on criminal acts, reestablishing misrepresentation/fraud as the only grounds for revoking citizenship​

RQ-related non-routine processing of citizenship applicants:
-- Conservatives implemented (OB-407) strict criteria for issuing RQ, which included full blown RQ issued to applicants for things like having a drivers license issued less than three months prior to applying for citizenship; being self-employed, employed as a consultant, or unemployed; during one period of time soon after Kenney obtained a majority government the Conservative government was issuing RQ to as many as one in four citizenship applicants​
-- Discussions about RQ in this forum since 2016, since there has been a Liberal government, have dwindled to a trickle; it is readily apparent that this government is not abusing the RQ procedure the way it had been under the Conservatives​

Current Conservative promises, much of which are NOT actually part of their platform but rather are rhetorical talking-points (typically using terms lacking substance . . . like "fair" and "accountability" and "welcoming" (talk about BS, that one is major BS coming from the Conservatives), do not reflect who the Conservative Parties have been in Canada and are not at all an indication of who they will be.

My political leaning toward the NDP, if and when there might be some chance of them resuming a major role in government (they have never formed the Federal government), derives from many additional factors and preferences; as some might discern, I lean to the left of the socialists. I am not a one-issue voter. But all that is beside the point here.

Homework done. FWIW.
I am looking beyond immigration.

Canadian economy is very bad right now. How was it before liberals got in?
 

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
I am looking beyond immigration.

Canadian economy is very bad right now. How was it before liberals got in?
It was terrible at the end of Harper reign. He put all the eggs in the oil basket and the economy promptly crashed and burned when oil prices collapsed.
 
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seaboard33

Star Member
Aug 10, 2021
63
30
this page title is misleading . it's more political and personal crying than actually talk about action complaining is counterproductive if no action is taken. someone need to file petition

also the myth that conservative or liberal or ndp can fix the issue is really just a myth because no one sees this as a priority there will always be new issues which will take priority over citizenship processing
 

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
because no one sees this as a priority there will always be new issues which will take priority over citizenship processing
This is utter nonsense. If citizenship was not a priority, the liberals would never have repealed Harper's C-24.

I am sure naysayers said the said thing about C-24 and said that no one will change the 4/6 years law or the intent to reside rule. Guess what? People complained and it got changed.
 

luvtrump

Champion Member
Dec 21, 2020
1,340
876
this page title is misleading . it's more political and personal crying than actually talk about action complaining is counterproductive if no action is taken. someone need to file petition

also the myth that conservative or liberal or ndp can fix the issue is really just a myth because no one sees this as a priority there will always be new issues which will take priority over citizenship processing
The problem is that no actions work or create any reaction. IRCC is above the law , it is the most powerful department in Canada and truly untouchable. plus I guess ppl r pissed off at liberals because they chose an Immigration minister who was just entirely useless.
 

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
The problem is that no actions work or create any reaction. IRCC is above the law , it is the most powerful department in Canada and truly untouchable. plus I guess ppl r pissed off at liberals because they chose an Immigration minister who was just entirely useless.
Thats right. The opposition to Liberals is entirely due to their administrative incompetence. Not their ideology. In terms of ideology, conservatives are more anti-immigrant than the Liberals or the NDP.

People are playing with fire when they hope that conservatives will come in and be better administrators (no evidence that they are, just look at Doug Ford lol!!) and hold off on their anti-immigrant ideology.

Of course, some immigrants are evil enough to hope that conservatives reduce immigration and effectively close the door behind them. Seen plenty of such specimens.
 

seaboard33

Star Member
Aug 10, 2021
63
30
This is utter nonsense. If citizenship was not a priority, the liberals would never have repealed Harper's C-24.

I am sure naysayers said the said thing about C-24 and said that no one will change the 4/6 years law or the intent to reside rule. Guess what? People complained and it got changed.
"citizenship processing"
talking about the time to process not the rules around citizenship. that will naturally attract more interest as it part of foreignand immigration policy.

lowering the processing timeline never been a concern despit the fact that ircc capable of doing it when funding and resources are available. aipp is a good example. pr application processed in 90 days. how?
 
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luvtrump

Champion Member
Dec 21, 2020
1,340
876
Thats right. The opposition to Liberals is entirely due to their administrative incompetence. Not their ideology. In terms of ideology, conservatives are more anti-immigrant than the Liberals or the NDP.

People are playing with fire when they hope that conservatives will come in and be better administrators (no evidence that they are, just look at Doug Ford lol!!) and hold off on their anti-immigrant ideology.

Of course, some immigrants are evil enough to hope that conservatives reduce immigration and effectively close the door behind them. Seen plenty of such specimens.
Im not sure but some looking at an easy way out like a reset If Consv bring some new rule regarding immigration like all applications returned or something similar will clear the backlog.
 

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
"citizenship processing"
talking about the time to process not the rules around citizenship. that will naturally attract more interest as it part of foreignand immigration policy.

lowering the processing timeline never been a concern despit the fact that ircc capable of doing it when funding and resources are available. aipp is a good example. pr application processed in 90 days. how?
If time was not at all a factor, why did Conservatives bring in express entry? That was a change to the processing time. Why does the conservative party platform have a fee based express option for all IRCC processing (incl citizenship?)

And reducing from 4/6 to 3/5 automatically reduced the wait for citizenship by 1 year. Why would the Liberals do this, if they didnt care how long people waited for citizenship?
 

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
Im not sure but some looking at an easy way out like a reset If Consv bring some new rule regarding immigration like all applications returned or something similar will clear the backlog.
Lol...only a complete moron will wish for this while waiting to be a citizen. Yes, cancelling all applications and deporting all non citizens will 'fix the backlog' lol. Just like how shooting a covid patient will make sure he no longer suffers from covid.
 
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seaboard33

Star Member
Aug 10, 2021
63
30
Thats right. The opposition to Liberals is entirely due to their administrative incompetence. Not their ideology. In terms of ideology, conservatives are more anti-immigrant than the Liberals or the NDP.

People are playing with fire when they hope that conservatives will come in and be better administrators (no evidence that they are, just look at Doug Ford lol!!) and hold off on their anti-immigrant ideology.

Of course, some immigrants are evil enough to hope that conservatives reduce immigration and effectively close the door behind them. Seen plenty of such specimens.
yah right. wait till ottole is elected and the same thing will continue . politicians dont make those decisions anyways its the beuracrats. the grass is always greener on the other side but in my opinion liberal tories ndp and others are all same. the department presents the idea processing citizenship application faster is not really necessary. the elected leader sign off without asking too much because it's not a question being asked in parliament.
also conservative in canada are actually liberals in conservative disguise so goodluck changing anything
 

seaboard33

Star Member
Aug 10, 2021
63
30
If time was not at all a factor, why did Conservatives bring in express entry? That was a change to the processing time. Why does the conservative party platform have a fee based express option for all IRCC processing (incl citizenship?)

And reducing from 4/6 to 3/5 automatically reduced the wait for citizenship by 1 year. Why would the Liberals do this, if they didnt care how long people waited for citizenship?
ugh express entry is to bring immigrants innto canada and directly impacts federal immigration levels.
you are missing the point . as an applicant of citizenship who already meets the requirements I am interested in seeing lower processing time. this is going nowhere. bye
 

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
ugh express entry is to bring immigrants innto canada and directly impacts federal immigration levels.
you are missing the point . as an applicant of citizenship who already meets the requirements I am interested in seeing lower processing time. this is going nowhere. bye
i see that you have nothing of substance to add, bye then
 

luvtrump

Champion Member
Dec 21, 2020
1,340
876
ugh express entry is to bring immigrants innto canada and directly impacts federal immigration levels.
you are missing the point . as an applicant of citizenship who already meets the requirements I am interested in seeing lower processing time. this is going nowhere. bye
i see that you have nothing of substance to add, bye then

Lets just remain focused on "what action can be taken to make IRCC work" There is a similar thread where applicants are considering a group action lawsuit against IRCC for using Coronavirus excuse to hide their incompetency and just processing random applciations while 2019 applicants still wait in a limbo