Applicants waiting for more than 2 years interested in Mandamus with a firm as a group meet here !!!

[canuck78]

I’m in. Do you know if the lawyer will charge per applicant or application? I applied with my wife and son.
June 2019, Scarborough

Likely per application but may give you a slight discount. Citizenship is for each applicant so so would mandamus. Mandamus is rarely filed and does require both a lawyer with previous expertise. I really don’t know how much people would actually be saving. Would add that courts are backed up due to covid so you may be waiting for a long time especially for class action. If people want to spent 5k+ for something they will get already that’s their prerogative. Most I assume want to leave Canada.

 

[piotrqc]

Likely per application but may give you a slight discount. Citizenship is for each applicant so so would mandamus. Mandamus is rarely filed and does require both a lawyer with previous expertise. I really don’t know how much people would actually be saving. Would add that courts are backed up due to covid so you may be waiting for a long time especially for class action. If people want to spent 5k+ for something they will get already that’s their prerogative. Most I assume want to leave Canada.

You cannot assume and judge people's intentions beforehand.

People want to be treated with respect, and to receive good public service, and to have their requests dealt with within a reasonable timeframe, that's all ... What do you want, requests to go on for years to come, and say "Oh , it's fine '' ??

Please keep your ideological misguided thinking away from this topic. We have seen it in several other subjects through this forum: Your intentions are clearly ideological.

If you want the residence requirement deadlines to be able to apply for citizenship to increase beyond 3 years, say so clearly in another topic ... But that's not the subject here.

Thank you.

, Piotr.

 

[CaBeaver]

Likely per application but may give you a slight discount. Citizenship is for each applicant so so would mandamus. Mandamus is rarely filed and does require both a lawyer with previous expertise. I really don’t know how much people would actually be saving. Would add that courts are backed up due to covid so you may be waiting for a long time especially for class action. If people want to spent 5k+ for something they will get already that’s their prerogative. Most I assume want to leave Canada.

I am not sure about any legal action and how this could play in favor of the applicants, but are you saying if they want to leave Canada, then they shouldn't get their citizenship (although there is no requirement to stay in Canada when applying for the citizenship), or demand their applications to be processed in a timely and fair manners? If it's covid-19 delay for everyone, that would be more acceptable. But seeing 2021 applicants progress before 2019 applicants is infuriating. We are not just mere numbers for IRCC to achieve some internal KPIs. We are talking about people's lives here. You keep pointing to this point whenever someone says something against IRCC. Most people will stay, some will leave. It's the reality of things. You cannot make 100% of the applicants to stay in Canada. They leave for one reason and another. It's a number game.

 

[canuck78]

You cannot assume and judge people's intentions beforehand.

People want to be treated with respect, and to receive good public service, and to have their requests dealt with within a reasonable timeframe, that's all ... What do you want, requests to go on for years to come, and say "Oh , it's fine '' ??

Please keep your ideological misguided thinking away from this topic. We have seen it in several other subjects through this forum: Your intentions are clearly ideological.

If you want the residence requirement deadlines to be able to apply for citizenship to increase beyond 3 years, say so clearly in another topic ... But that's not the subject here.

Thank you.

, Piotr.

Do you not think everyone has had to adjust to long wait times when it comes to most services in Canada due to covid? I had a medical procedure cancelled 5 times. I didn’t complain because I knew that everyone else was going through delays as well. I think I may get surgery in 2 years if I’m lucky. This has been a tough 1.5years. We have all had to deal with the government taking much longer to get back to you anytime you ask a question. PRs have access to all services and benefits that Canadians receive so for most just waiting will no impact to their daily lives. You aren’t stuck abroad waiting for another 1+ yrs to enter Canada or to get your application approved. Some are waiting 2 years to reunite with a spouse. Not sure how you are not being treated with respect? There isn’t a small number of people applying for citizenship who have been delayed there are delays throughout the whole immigration system. In general everyone in Canada has been affected by covid in a variety of ways. It’s unfortunate but we have to be flexible and consider that we are lucky that we’ve had access to vaccines, access to financial support, access to free treatment if we get covid, etc.

 

[alaa_saleh]

Do you not think everyone has had to adjust to long wait times when it comes to most services in Canada due to covid? I had a medical procedure cancelled 5 times. I didn’t complain because I knew that everyone else was going through delays as well. I think I may get surgery in 2 years if I’m lucky. This has been a tough 1.5years. We have all had to deal with the government taking much longer to get back to you anytime you ask a question. PRs have access to all services and benefits that Canadians receive so for most just waiting will no impact to their daily lives. You aren’t stuck abroad waiting for another 1+ yrs to enter Canada or to get your application approved. Some are waiting 2 years to reunite with a spouse. Not sure how you are not being treated with respect? There isn’t a small number of people applying for citizenship who have been delayed there are delays throughout the whole immigration system. In general everyone in Canada has been affected by covid in a variety of ways. It’s unfortunate but we have to be flexible and consider that we are lucky that we’ve had access to vaccines, access to financial support, access to free treatment if we get covid, etc.

what will be your feeling if someone needs the same surgery as you but the symptoms just happened to them not like you and they get the surgery done but you still in the queue?

 

[canuck78]

I am not sure about any legal action and how this could play in favor of the applicants, but are you saying if they want to leave Canada, then they shouldn't get their citizenship (although there is no requirement to stay in Canada when applying for the citizenship), or demand their applications to be processed in a timely and fair manners? If it's covid-19 delay for everyone, that would be more acceptable. But seeing 2021 applicants progress before 2019 applicants is infuriating. We are not just mere numbers for IRCC to achieve some internal KPIs. You keep pointing to this point whenever someone says something against IRCC. Most people will stay, some will leave. It's the reality of things. You cannot make 100% of the applicants to stay in Canada. They leave for one reason and another.

Do you have a list of all applicants from all cities to prove that 2021 applications across all cities are being selected before 2019? There are 100k+ applications so some posts on a forum could be irregularities and not a trend. There are delays throughout all immigration programs. A global pandemic creates delays. Yes people are legally able to leave and get citizenship. I think that’s a crazy concept but I also can see that a large number of the people complaining are people who have left Canada or who are planning on leaving Canada. I don’t see people being honest about why they want their citizenship ASAP. They either want to leave ASAP or have left and are now worried about tmeetimg their PR RO to qualify for citizenship.

 

[canuck78]

what will be your feeling if someone needs the same surgery as you but the symptoms just happened to them not like you and they get the surgery done but you still in the queue?

Have you actually used the healthcare system? This happened before covid. I accept that that’s just the part of the system and I will get my turn. There isn’t a master list it depends on a number of variable including location, doctor, etc.

 

[piotrqc]

Do you not think everyone has had to adjust to long wait times when it comes to most services in Canada due to covid? I had a medical procedure cancelled 5 times. I didn’t complain because I knew that everyone else was going through delays as well. I think I may get surgery in 2 years if I’m lucky. This has been a tough 1.5years. We have all had to deal with the government taking much longer to get back to you anytime you ask a question. PRs have access to all services and benefits that Canadians receive so for most just waiting will no impact to their daily lives. You aren’t stuck abroad waiting for another 1+ yrs to enter Canada or to get your application approved. Some are waiting 2 years to reunite with a spouse. Not sure how you are not being treated with respect? There isn’t a small number of people applying for citizenship who have been delayed there are delays throughout the whole immigration system. In general everyone in Canada has been affected by covid in a variety of ways. It’s unfortunate but we have to be flexible and consider that we are lucky that we’ve had access to vaccines, access to financial support, access to free treatment if we get covid, etc.

"No impact on our daily life" means that we should necessarily be silent indefinitely and accept with a smile the delays of several more years ??

Covid can no longer be an argument '' ad vitam æternam ''
to delay proceedings indefinitely. It no longer makes sense.

Honest tax-paying workers have the right to have access to quality public services ... Whether it is access to health, the renewal of a driver's license at the provincial level, an application for citizenship, and any other local, provincial or federal administrative procedure ...

We have the right to demand that, and to go to the tribunals if necessary, it is our right within the framework of the laws and regulations in force ... We have the right to do it without being shown of law or `` accuse '' of wanting to leave Canada. (Assuming that we are people who take advantage of the system ... This kind of xenophobic allusions, although implicit, are unpleasant).

Who are you to judge people?

People will deposit Mandamus ... And it will be a good thing if a Mandamus is accepted by a federal court.

, Piotr.

 

[harirajmohan]

Please, lets only focus on getting information about legal filing options, fees, lawyer contact etc. Lets not deviate from the core topic, just only on this thread.

 

[CaBeaver]

Do you have a list of all applicants from all cities to prove that 2021 applications across all cities are being selected before 2019? There are 100k+ applications so some posts on a forum could be irregularities and not a trend. There are delays throughout all immigration programs. A global pandemic creates delays. Yes people are legally able to leave and get citizenship. I think that’s a crazy concept but I also can see that a large number of the people complaining are people who have left Canada or who are planning on leaving Canada. I don’t see people being honest about why they want their citizenship ASAP. They either want to leave ASAP or have left and are now worried about tmeetimg their PR RO to qualify for citizenship.

The spreadsheets give a sample data. I waited 18 months to get my citizenship test, while many later applicants did their test within few months, and waiting for the oath, the same place as I am, some of them even have done the oath, although I applied before them by up to a year if not more. I have to wait more than 2 years for my application, while 2021 and late 2020 applicants wait less than a year. IRCC mentioned in one document shared by a member that they will focus on paper-based applications, while meeting their target. It's no brainer IRCC acts out of self-interest with nothing else in mind.

I am not sure why you are so pissed with people leaving Canada? Canada gives immigration status and citizenship to refugees around the world. Take Afghans, 20,000 of them will get PR in Canada, while they will probably contribute very little to Canada other than demographic addition, at least 1st generation, and they didn't come through formal channels such as skilled workers or have to meet requirements that we spent years to meet. I have been 10+ years in Canada. Studied here. Worked here. Stayed here.

 

[DejavuCA]

Do you have a list of all applicants from all cities to prove that 2021 applications across all cities are being selected before 2019? There are 100k+ applications so some posts on a forum could be irregularities and not a trend. There are delays throughout all immigration programs. A global pandemic creates delays. Yes people are legally able to leave and get citizenship. I think that’s a crazy concept but I also can see that a large number of the people complaining are people who have left Canada or who are planning on leaving Canada. I don’t see people being honest about why they want their citizenship ASAP. They either want to leave ASAP or have left and are now worried about tmeetimg their PR RO to qualify for citizenship.

Wish there was a big fat thumbs down button in this forum.

 

[dpenabill]

Please, lets only focus on getting information about legal filing options, fees, lawyer contact etc. Lets not deviate from the core topic, just only on this thread.

The problem with that is the topic appears to mostly be about pursuing a group mandamus action. There does NOT appear to be any basis at all for such an action. The information available about "legal filing options" is rather simple and straight-forward, there are NONE for group mandamus.

That does NOT mean the door is closed for pursuing organized advocacy, as a group, which does not necessarily require lawyers, although lawyers can be and often are a good resource for group or organized advocacy.

Nor does the absence of a viable group action for mandamus necessarily close the door on pursuing other legal recourse, including other judicial remedies, for which the services of qualified lawyers is needed (while individuals can pursue judicial actions on their own behalf without a lawyer, pro se, my understanding is that a group or organization must be represented by a licensed attorney). I am no expert, so I do not know what other legal recourse, what other judicial remedies might be available for a "group" in this situation. Even though so far I have seen no hint of a viable cause of action, without something more definitive on the table the door should be open to learn if there is any.

And, finally, the third leg of alternative options, that is approaches that do not rely on or involve some fantasy of group mandamus, there is the option of seeking mandamus relief individually.

As for the prospect of seeking mandamus relief individually:

Frankly, in the current situation, in situations reported by prospective claimants in the forum, it does not appear that many, if any, are good candidates for pursuing a successful application for a writ of mandamus, remembering that the length of time IRCC has had an application is NOT, not alone, a sufficient basis for mandamus relief -- the Minister does NOT have a "clear duty" to complete citizenship application processing within any particular time. Look at the timelines in just the handful of cases referenced by @cobie2 (posted evening September 7), NONE of whom were successful in obtaining mandamus relief, ALL delayed for more than FOUR years. In the case involving a citizenship application pending for MORE than a DECADE a semblance of relief was granted, Justice McHaffie ordering periodic status reports.

This probably explains, at least in part, why there is not an overwhelming response among citizenship applicants, or for that matter, not much enthusiasm for investing real time, effort, and money into paying for lawyers to pursue mandamus relief. Betting odds are, well, discouraging.

A lot more could be said about the viability of INDIVIDUAL actions seeking mandamus relief, noting however that this has been discussed in some depth in many topics here. For purposes of this particular topic, mostly focused on group action rather than individual lawsuits, some general observations may be warranted:

-- even though there is no prospect for a group mandamus action, members of a group can benefit from identifying particular lawyers who will be better prepared to offer good advice, and if appropriate representation; the more similar cases lawyers handle, the more experienced and knowledgeable the lawyers tend to be about those kinds of cases, and thus, for example, in addition to being better prepared to advise and represent individuals in those situations, the less additional research the lawyer should need to do, which should reduce at least some of the expense​

-- -- as I have noted in other discussions, given the procedural complexities of mandamus actions in conjunction with the extraordinary nature of the action, even among lawyers expertise in this area is NOT common, so finding a lawyer or group of lawyers with experience and expertise in this relative to citizenship applications is a practical necessity . . . and a group organized for advocacy can also be a group assisting its members in connecting with experienced, more likely to be effective lawyers​

​

-- apart from any particular individual electing to invest in lawyering-up to pursue mandamus, a very personal decision, any effort to encourage or solicit others to join should be tempered with realistic expectations; while @canuck78 already addressed quite a few aspects in this vein (but as is all too common here, much of that has been taken out of context, or outright distorted . . . for those interested in learning more and figuring out how to navigate this stuff, better to read those observations looking for what you can learn from them rather than looking for reasons to criticize), it warrants highlighting some realistic expectations:​

-- -- the timeline for actually getting relief through an action seeking a writ of mandamus, in the context of a grant citizenship application, and especially in the current still-laboring-under-the-pandemic-cloud environment, is NOT likely to accelerate when a particular individual actually gets to take the oath (fact that many engage in pursuing actions, however, might be a factor in encouraging IRCC to accelerate things generally, or so one should hope)​

-- -- cost is a big factor for anyone who has to ask how much will it cost; these actions tend to be EXPENSIVE and recovering costs from the government is at best a long-shot, and even if that happens, what is actually recovered tends to be a small slice of the actual costs​

OVERALL: apart from being proactive or engaging in advocacy (there are many ways of doing this), it should be cautioned that, unfortunately, the prospects of accelerating the timeline through mandamus or other judicial action appear rather DIM, at best. I do not discourage anyone from pursuing long-shots. Those willing to do so often benefit others who are not equipped to bet against long odds. I do, however, strongly encourage full disclosure and honest advocacy. There is little promise of getting to the oath sooner here. No one should be confused let alone deceived about this. That is, those doing this are more likely to be doing it for the greater good, with not much promise, if any, it will mean that they personally get a Canadian passport much if at all sooner.

 

[umanitoba]

Seems that many law firms these days recommend mandamus.From Mattewjeffery.com:
“
Mandamus Applications:
If you’ve already submitted your application and it’s taking much longer than the estimated processing times, it may be appropriate to file a mandamus application. In this situation, our office can help you to bring a mandamus appeal to the Federal Court, asking the court to order the immigration authority to make a decision in your case.

Among other things, the conditions necessary to demonstrate that a writ of mandamus should be issued include that the immigration authority has a public legal duty to act and that they owe the duty to you. You must have made a prior demand to the immigration authorities to complete the process, and it must be shown that there was unreasonable delay in your case, as compared to the normal or average processing times.

A problem that arises in this situation is that delays due to the COVID-19 pandemic are unlikely to count toward unreasonable delay. However, as Canada begins to open up and resume business-as-usual, it will become harder for IRCC to blame delays on the COVID-19 pandemic, and mandamus applications may once again become an incredibly effective tool in speeding up the immigration process.”

 

[harirajmohan]

A problem that arises in this situation is that delays due to the COVID-19 pandemic are unlikely to count toward unreasonable delay. However, as Canada begins to open up and resume business-as-usual, it will become harder for IRCC to blame delays on the COVID-19 pandemic, and mandamus applications may once again become an incredibly effective tool in speeding up the immigration process.”

I think that this is why cic is shifting legally to focus on afgan issue to avoid any legal queries and they can easily answer saying they were focusing on afgan rescue to reply to authorities on not able to complete other applications even though the businesses are fully open.
They get to hide under new cover when business are fully open.

 

[umanitoba]

I think that this is why cic is shifting legally to focus on afgan issue to avoid any legal queries and they can easily answer saying they were focusing on afgan rescue to reply to authorities on not able to complete other applications even though the businesses are fully open.
They get to hide under new cover when business are fully open.

Based on my experience it’s hard for them to hide behind this issue. The process is based on common law and past cases. If IRCC has processed cases in order they could use this argument but based on many atip notes they have processed randomly. While they are processing jan/feb 2021 many 2018 and 2020 are waiting for test invites, so the ground for mandamus strong. Based on my experience even court does not accept delay in security screening by csis and cbsa as a reasonable for delay in processing applications. What happens when you file the mandamus, IRCC process tour case urgently. I believe I saw this in one of the OPs.
Again the real issue is not a backlog the issue is random processing of application. I believe this is even a serious matter as “negligence”.