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Physical Presence Temporary Residence

nazgul86

Hero Member
Jul 31, 2018
257
116
Hello,
I'm trying to calculate my physical presence in Canada for the Citizenship Application.
I was a US resident prior to become PR in Canada and I visited Canada often by car without requiring an ETA. As part of the calculation I have to list the times I had authorized temporary resident status in Canada. Since I travelled by car to Canada without an ETA, was I simply granted temporary status on my very first trip to Canada? Would that be the first day I had temporary status in Canada basically?
Thanks,
A*
 

rajkamalmohanram

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2015
15,803
5,787
Hello,
I'm trying to calculate my physical presence in Canada for the Citizenship Application.
I was a US resident prior to become PR in Canada and I visited Canada often by car without requiring an ETA. As part of the calculation I have to list the times I had authorized temporary resident status in Canada. Since I travelled by car to Canada without an ETA, was I simply granted temporary status on my very first trip to Canada? Would that be the first day I had temporary status in Canada basically?
Thanks,
A*
For the purposes of the physical presence calculator, you can enter all the dates you entered and exited Canada in the past 5 years. And yes, you can start with the first time you entered Canada in the past 5 years.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
Hello,
I'm trying to calculate my physical presence in Canada for the Citizenship Application.
I was a US resident prior to become PR in Canada and I visited Canada often by car without requiring an ETA. As part of the calculation I have to list the times I had authorized temporary resident status in Canada. Since I travelled by car to Canada without an ETA, was I simply granted temporary status on my very first trip to Canada? Would that be the first day I had temporary status in Canada basically?
Thanks,
A*
Days a FN is in Canada as a visitor are days in Canada with Temporary Resident status, and those within the five year eligibility period are generally entitled to credit (half day for each day in Canada) toward meeting the actual physical presence requirement for citizenship, but of course that is subject to meeting the burden of proof as to (1) actual presence, and (2) the grant of status.

So yes, such days should be listed, both in the application in reference to pre-PR status in Canada, and in the physical presence calculation travel history.

For purposes of listing dates in the presence calculator, only those days actually IN Canada get listed.

You appear to also be asking about what dates to list as having Temporary Resident status. Since there is no formal grant of status, and a person with a visa-exempt passport does not otherwise have Temporary Resident status when outside Canada, my sense (there are no precise instructions about this, so far as I know) is that such an individual only has TR status on those days the individual was actually IN Canada. So in the application itself, each trip should (probably) be listed separately.

But what many fail to mention is that it is risky to rely on those days counting to meet the minimum presence requirement. So far as we know the initial screening of incoming applications, checking the application to be sure it is complete, includes a check of the client's GCMS file to verify dates of status, including in particular status as a Temporary Resident prior to becoming a PR.

This means that when IRCC opens the application it does not initially confirm that the applicant had status for periods of time that GCMS does not show status, AND this has resulted in applications being returned (effectively a rejection in these scenarios) if the physical presence calculation does not show enough days in Canada without counting days which GCMS does not show status.

While the anecdotal reporting of this is a bit dated, there has been minimal reporting otherwise. It is not certain the completeness screening will not count such days BUT the risk is more than high enough that it would be foolish to not wait longer to apply.

Reminder: in general it is a good idea to have at least a month or so buffer of days IN Canada, at least 1125 or so days credit for physical presence, before applying. Some here think ten days is enough, but waiting another three weeks more to make the application should be easy, a lot, lot easier than, say, getting bogged down in non-routine processing which can add many months if not a year or even two to how long it takes to be scheduled for the oath.

For the prospective applicant who was in Canada without a formal grant of status prior to becoming a PR, such as your casual visitor days, it is easy to do drafts of the presence calculation NOT including those days, and when the number of days credit is around 1125 or so, or more, THEN do a final version of the presence calculation INCLUDING the casual visitor days, in effect adding those to the 30 day buffer.

Of course, a buffer is not necessary to be eligible and granted citizenship. 1095 days works. At least EVENTUALLY. Assuming the PR can actually prove 1095 days IN Canada (or more when relying on half-day credits). But waiting longer to apply can often mean getting to take the oath sooner.

And even if an application is made relying on some casual visitor days credits to meet the minimum requirement, and it is returned because credit for those days is not recognized in the completeness screening, the law is such that that individual can probably resubmit the application and demand that it be processed, and perhaps proceed to prove presence AND status for those days sufficient to meet the requirements. Not aware of anyone doing this, but that is because it would make little or no sense . . . odds of a negative burden of proof decision looms large (who can prove every day in Canada? remembering that a date of entry into Canada does not prove the individual was in Canada the next day), and the prospect of a much, much longer timeline is almost certain.
 
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nazgul86

Hero Member
Jul 31, 2018
257
116
Days a FN is in Canada as a visitor are days in Canada with Temporary Resident status, and those within the five year eligibility period are generally entitled to credit (half day for each day in Canada) toward meeting the actual physical presence requirement for citizenship, but of course that is subject to meeting the burden of proof as to (1) actual presence, and (2) the grant of status.

So yes, such days should be listed, both in the application in reference to pre-PR status in Canada, and in the physical presence calculation travel history.

For purposes of listing dates in the presence calculator, only those days actually IN Canada get listed.

You appear to also be asking about what dates to list as having Temporary Resident status. Since there is no formal grant of status, and a person with a visa-exempt passport does not otherwise have Temporary Resident status when outside Canada, my sense (there are no precise instructions about this, so far as I know) is that such an individual only has TR status on those days the individual was actually IN Canada. So in the application itself, each trip should (probably) be listed separately.

But what many fail to mention is that it is risky to rely on those days counting to meet the minimum presence requirement. So far as we know the initial screening of incoming applications, checking the application to be sure it is complete, includes a check of the client's GCMS file to verify dates of status, including in particular status as a Temporary Resident prior to becoming a PR.

This means that when IRCC opens the application it does not initially confirm that the applicant had status for periods of time that GCMS does not show status, AND this has resulted in applications being returned (effectively a rejection in these scenarios) if the physical presence calculation does not show enough days in Canada without counting days which GCMS does not show status.

While the anecdotal reporting of this is a bit dated, there has been minimal reporting otherwise. It is not certain the completeness screening will not count such days BUT the risk is more than high enough that it would be foolish to not wait longer to apply.

Reminder: in general it is a good idea to have at least a month or so buffer of days IN Canada, at least 1125 or so days credit for physical presence, before applying. Some here think ten days is enough, but waiting another three weeks more to make the application should be easy, a lot, lot easier than, say, getting bogged down in non-routine processing which can add many months if not a year or even two to how long it takes to be scheduled for the oath.

For the prospective applicant who was in Canada without a formal grant of status prior to becoming a PR, such as your casual visitor days, it is easy to do drafts of the presence calculation NOT including those days, and when the number of days credit is around 1125 or so, or more, THEN do a final version of the presence calculation INCLUDING the casual visitor days, in effect adding those to the 30 day buffer.

Of course, a buffer is not necessary to be eligible and granted citizenship. 1095 days works. At least EVENTUALLY. Assuming the PR can actually prove 1095 days IN Canada (or more when relying on half-day credits). But waiting longer to apply can often mean getting to take the oath sooner.

And even if an application is made relying on some casual visitor days credits to meet the minimum requirement, and it is returned because credit for those days is not recognized in the completeness screening, the law is such that that individual can probably resubmit the application and demand that it be processed, and perhaps proceed to prove presence AND status for those days sufficient to meet the requirements. Not aware of anyone doing this, but that is because it would make little or no sense . . . odds of a negative burden of proof decision looms large (who can prove every day in Canada? remembering that a date of entry into Canada does not prove the individual was in Canada the next day), and the prospect of a much, much longer timeline is almost certain.
Thanks for the detailed response. I was under the impression that the TR status would be granted up to 6 months for each entry, and since I travelled to Canada quite often (every other week basically) for the two years prior to getting PR status, I was thinking to have a single entry of TR status from the 1st trip to Canada until PR status. Basically I am under the assumption that each trip would reset the 6 months temporary resident status, but I'm not sure that's the case or whether I should re-list all the trips basically as part of the temporary status page as well as you mentioned. I may need to consult someone else on this.

In terms of how I was planning to count accurately the days: I did an online ATIP request under the Privacy Act to get my travel history for the past 5 years from CBSA and used those dates to fill-in the Physical Presence Calculator. I also cross-checked those dates with the actual Google Timeline that luckily had turned on, to verify my trips on the dates listed in the ATIP response. So I am pretty confident of the accuracy of those. But from what you are saying, it is possible that some preliminary checks may reject it anyway because of the unclear TR status prior to PR? I don't have urgency in applying for the Canadian citizenship, but it would save me approximately ~8 months if I were to count my half-time presence while having temporary status, so I was eager to avoid unnecessary wait times, but sounds like it may be wiser to wait until I'll have the actual time + buffer using only the time with PR status?