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Citizenship test: Collective action required, or expect endless delays, years. Example of the effective lobbyng of people awaiting spousal sponsorship

Syed07283

Star Member
Aug 12, 2015
150
51
India
Category........
Visa Office......
New Delhi
NOC Code......
0113
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
09/06/2014 Pmt charged....: 25/09/2014 P.E.R.............: 04/10/2014 Processing started: 20/11/2014 Email Verification: 27/07/2015
Med's Request
27/08/2015
Med's Done....
05/09/2015
Interview........
Waived Decision Made..: 03/10/2015
Passport Req..
05/10/2015
VISA ISSUED...
01/10/2015
LANDED..........
21/01/2016
Finally!! Received Oath invitation email today for July 2nd!! Please update the spreadsheet
 

harirajmohan

VIP Member
Mar 3, 2015
6,162
1,666
Category........
Visa Office......
Sydney, NS
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
29-May-2015
Doc's Request.
30-Dec-2015 ReminderEmail(PCCs, NewPassport via cse 31-Dec-2015)
Nomination.....
SK 22-Apr-2015
AOR Received.
11-Aug-2015
Med's Request
23-Dec-2015
Med's Done....
20-Jan-2016
Passport Req..
26-May-2016 (BGC In Progress 25-May-2016)
VISA ISSUED...
PP Reached Ottawa:27-May-2016, Received:10-Jun-2016
LANDED..........
PR: 09-Jul-2016, PR Card: 17-Aug-2016
Finally!! Received Oath invitation email today for July 2nd!! Please update the spreadsheet
It seems some office is scheduling for Aug instead of Jul. I dont understand why they would schedule so far to Aug.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
Since that article reports more than 60k were scheduled to take the oath in the first four months of 2021, and a comparable number of knowledge of Canada tests scheduled, it appears that IRCC is at least approaching par in processing citizenship applications. Probably time to retire the campaign to push IRCC to resume normal processing, since, after all, however and whatever motivated the government, it appears MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

In fact, those numbers suggest that IRCC was approaching par, processing applications to completion at a rate comparable to the intake of new applications, sometime last year. I am impressed. Better job done than I was anticipating.

Dealing with the backlogged applications is still an issue, but in that regard, as bureaucracies in general are wont to do, and as CIC/IRCC has historically done, that tends to go slow, typically excruciatingly slow. Not likely this is about giving priority to more recent applications; frankly the over-the-top cynicism claiming there is a deliberate scheme to manipulate the numbers is ludicrous and in the range of American-style conspiracy theories. It is almost certainly about the way bureaucracies work, like assembly lines, once the normal flow has been re-established the work on the line progresses accordingly . . . and thus the apparent progress being made with the more recently filed applications actually reinforces the likelihood that a more or less normal processing flow has indeed been re-established. Meanwhile a separate, not in the normal flow process is necessary to deal with the work that had been in effect stockpiled, backlogged. And as noted, not only is this typically a problem, typically slow, for any bureaucracy, historically CIC/IRCC has had an especially poor track record in dealing with backlogs.

But that is a finite problem and as applications in the backlog are resolved, a shrinking problem. It is also, however, unfortunately, typically a tenacious if not intransigent problem. But as long as the processing of citizenship applications has resumed a normal flow, processing applications more or less at a rate comparable to incoming new applications, those stuck in the backlog should feel relieved that there is no threat of the timeline ballooning to many years as some of the fearmongering here has proffered.


An Observation Regarding the Hardships Discussed in the Star Article:

The hardship imposed on the individuals discussed in the Star article is real. But as noted elsewhere, as much as a delay in obtaining a Canadian passport imposes hardship on PRs with international travel needs, including those with such needs in their employment, the policies and practices (driven in significant part by the purposes underlying the Canadian immigration system, including its path to citizenship for PRs) are not oriented toward giving this much priority. The path to citizenship is simply not there, not intended, to address or facilitate the international travel needs of immigrants. Maybe it should be. As illustrated in that article, this poses a real hardship for many. So many vehemently urge this should be a more important concern. But so far all signs suggest it is not. This is reflected in the Charter regarding mobility rights, statutory provisions such as those prescribing the PR RO, and extensively in the case law, and as is readily apparent in how IRCC approaches processing citizenship applications.

So, as hard as this aspect of the delay is, it is not likely to have much weight in the government's approach to priorities in dealing with the backlogged citizenship applications. Unless and until a PR actually becomes a citizen, until the oath is taken, a PR's international travel is mostly subject to, dependent on, the passport the PR carries and the rules and laws of other countries. However things should be, this is how it is.
 

MrChazz

Hero Member
May 4, 2021
247
226
Since that article reports more than 60k were scheduled to take the oath in the first four months of 2021, and a comparable number of knowledge of Canada tests scheduled, it appears that IRCC is at least approaching par in processing citizenship applications. Probably time to retire the campaign to push IRCC to resume normal processing, since, after all, however and whatever motivated the government, it appears MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

In fact, those numbers suggest that IRCC was approaching par, processing applications to completion at a rate comparable to the intake of new applications, sometime last year. I am impressed. Better job done than I was anticipating.

Dealing with the backlogged applications is still an issue, but in that regard, as bureaucracies in general are wont to do, and as CIC/IRCC has historically done, that tends to go slow, typically excruciatingly slow. Not likely this is about giving priority to more recent applications; frankly the over-the-top cynicism claiming there is a deliberate scheme to manipulate the numbers is ludicrous and in the range of American-style conspiracy theories. It is almost certainly about the way bureaucracies work, like assembly lines, once the normal flow has been re-established the work on the line progresses accordingly . . . and thus the apparent progress being made with the more recently filed applications actually reinforces the likelihood that a more or less normal processing flow has indeed been re-established. Meanwhile a separate, not in the normal flow process is necessary to deal with the work that had been in effect stockpiled, backlogged. And as noted, not only is this typically a problem, typically slow, for any bureaucracy, historically CIC/IRCC has had an especially poor track record in dealing with backlogs.

But that is a finite problem and as applications in the backlog are resolved, a shrinking problem. It is also, however, unfortunately, typically a tenacious if not intransigent problem. But as long as the processing of citizenship applications has resumed a normal flow, processing applications more or less at a rate comparable to incoming new applications, those stuck in the backlog should feel relieved that there is no threat of the timeline ballooning to many years as some of the fearmongering here has proffered.


An Observation Regarding the Hardships Discussed in the Star Article:

The hardship imposed on the individuals discussed in the Star article is real. But as noted elsewhere, as much as a delay in obtaining a Canadian passport imposes hardship on PRs with international travel needs, including those with such needs in their employment, the policies and practices (driven in significant part by the purposes underlying the Canadian immigration system, including its path to citizenship for PRs) are not oriented toward giving this much priority. The path to citizenship is simply not there, not intended, to address or facilitate the international travel needs of immigrants. Maybe it should be. As illustrated in that article, this poses a real hardship for many. So many vehemently urge this should be a more important concern. But so far all signs suggest it is not. This is reflected in the Charter regarding mobility rights, statutory provisions such as those prescribing the PR RO, and extensively in the case law, and as is readily apparent in how IRCC approaches processing citizenship applications.

So, as hard as this aspect of the delay is, it is not likely to have much weight in the government's approach to priorities in dealing with the backlogged citizenship applications. Unless and until a PR actually becomes a citizen, until the oath is taken, a PR's international travel is mostly subject to, dependent on, the passport the PR carries and the rules and laws of other countries. However things should be, this is how it is.
You always write a lot but actually say very little that is useful, Mr. Expert. :)
 

luvtrump

Champion Member
Dec 21, 2020
1,340
876
Since that article reports more than 60k were scheduled to take the oath in the first four months of 2021, and a comparable number of knowledge of Canada tests scheduled, it appears that IRCC is at least approaching par in processing citizenship applications. Probably time to retire the campaign to push IRCC to resume normal processing, since, after all, however and whatever motivated the government, it appears MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

In fact, those numbers suggest that IRCC was approaching par, processing applications to completion at a rate comparable to the intake of new applications, sometime last year. I am impressed. Better job done than I was anticipating.

Dealing with the backlogged applications is still an issue, but in that regard, as bureaucracies in general are wont to do, and as CIC/IRCC has historically done, that tends to go slow, typically excruciatingly slow. Not likely this is about giving priority to more recent applications; frankly the over-the-top cynicism claiming there is a deliberate scheme to manipulate the numbers is ludicrous and in the range of American-style conspiracy theories. It is almost certainly about the way bureaucracies work, like assembly lines, once the normal flow has been re-established the work on the line progresses accordingly . . . and thus the apparent progress being made with the more recently filed applications actually reinforces the likelihood that a more or less normal processing flow has indeed been re-established. Meanwhile a separate, not in the normal flow process is necessary to deal with the work that had been in effect stockpiled, backlogged. And as noted, not only is this typically a problem, typically slow, for any bureaucracy, historically CIC/IRCC has had an especially poor track record in dealing with backlogs.

But that is a finite problem and as applications in the backlog are resolved, a shrinking problem. It is also, however, unfortunately, typically a tenacious if not intransigent problem. But as long as the processing of citizenship applications has resumed a normal flow, processing applications more or less at a rate comparable to incoming new applications, those stuck in the backlog should feel relieved that there is no threat of the timeline ballooning to many years as some of the fearmongering here has proffered.


An Observation Regarding the Hardships Discussed in the Star Article:

The hardship imposed on the individuals discussed in the Star article is real. But as noted elsewhere, as much as a delay in obtaining a Canadian passport imposes hardship on PRs with international travel needs, including those with such needs in their employment, the policies and practices (driven in significant part by the purposes underlying the Canadian immigration system, including its path to citizenship for PRs) are not oriented toward giving this much priority. The path to citizenship is simply not there, not intended, to address or facilitate the international travel needs of immigrants. Maybe it should be. As illustrated in that article, this poses a real hardship for many. So many vehemently urge this should be a more important concern. But so far all signs suggest it is not. This is reflected in the Charter regarding mobility rights, statutory provisions such as those prescribing the PR RO, and extensively in the case law, and as is readily apparent in how IRCC approaches processing citizenship applications.

So, as hard as this aspect of the delay is, it is not likely to have much weight in the government's approach to priorities in dealing with the backlogged citizenship applications. Unless and until a PR actually becomes a citizen, until the oath is taken, a PR's international travel is mostly subject to, dependent on, the passport the PR carries and the rules and laws of other countries. However things should be, this is how it is.
If i put a second application is there a chance it will be processed quicker compared to my 2019 paper app ?
 

luvtrump

Champion Member
Dec 21, 2020
1,340
876
I would rather suggest you take a vacation with that $630, get some stress out of your life :)
I want to but I just got my one dose vaccine . Once I get my second dose I'm going down south but I gotta apply for a visa lol half of the money gonna end up there . What a stressful life .
 

latestbot

Hero Member
Jan 4, 2015
309
142
Toronto, ON, Canada
Category........
CEC
I want to but I just got my one dose vaccine . Once I get my second dose I'm going down south but I gotta apply for a visa lol half of the money gonna end up there . What a stressful life .
Why not explore Canada itself? You're going to be a Canadian down the road, it's about time you explore the country.

I saw tickets to Vancouver were pretty cheap few days back, not sure about now.
 

luvtrump

Champion Member
Dec 21, 2020
1,340
876
Why not explore Canada itself? You're going to be a Canadian down the road, it's about time you explore the country.

I saw tickets to Vancouver were pretty cheap few days back, not sure about now.
When I become Canadian down the road I'll be more happy to explore Canada but right now after 22 months of torture from Ircc and further they are going to make me suffer more , I just wanna be away from Canada.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
If i put a second application is there a chance it will be processed quicker compared to my 2019 paper app ?
Probably not. But, who knows?

Note, at the least, when the new application is opened at CPC-Sydney the official screening the application will immediately recognize that there is either an application already in process, or if that application has been withdrawn that there was an application and that it has been withdrawn. These days we do not know the precise criteria which can result in RQ-related non-routine processing, but in the past the fact there was a previous application was one of the more direct factors leading to RQ-related processing. That noted, depending on the individual's specific history and situation, what happens in individual cases varies extensively; how it actually goes for any particular individual can vary widely compared to how it goes for other applicants, even those who appear to be in very comparable situations.

Which in turn leads to . . . Any discussion about the processing timeline should clearly distinguish between statistical information versus any particular individual's processing timeline. Trends and probabilities are one thing. What happens in a specific person's case is specific to that individual, and that is subject to way too many variables, too many details, not to mention a range of conditionals and contingencies, for anyone here to in any way reliably forecast the prospective timeline for any specific person . . . that is, other than describing the trends and probabilities generally.

The latter drags this back to the backlog problem. As I previously noted, since dealing with backlogged cases is outside the routine processing stream in almost any bureaucratic context, bureaucracies in general typically have problems addressing and resolving backlogs. BUT CIC/IRCC has, in particular, an especially dismal history in this regard.

The history of how Canada handled skilled worker PR applications a decade ago is perhaps the most salient, egregious, and eventually unfair example . . . in a fashion scores of applicants with long-term pending applications suddenly had their applications, in effect, thrown out in order to eliminate the backlog. (Note, early on in this particular topic, some of the blatant fearmongering here claimed something similar was likely to happen to citizenship applicants; for many reasons that was just raw and unfounded fearmongering, and is not worth revisiting. I mention the skilled worker situation as an example of just how badly CIC/IRCC tends to deal with backlogs, not as an example about what can happen for citizenship applicants.)

Another historical example more specific to citizenship applications was also around a decade ago. There was a huge backlog of applications due to draconian measures implemented by the Harper government's effort to crack down on fraud, which was more or less resolved by the time I applied, so that processing new applications was back on track, while the backlogged applications remained bogged down. The result was that I, and many others who applied around the same time as I did, were taking the oath long before scores who had applied two, three, and some even four years before us.

A sidebar: a big difference between the situation now and the situation then, was that for many of us the direction the Harper government was headed was obvious; their rhetoric about the extent to which they perceived widespread fraud and abuses, combined with the legislation being tabled, and the steadily increasing processing timeline (back then the government was more transparent -- there were regular publicly disclosed reports showing how long it took to process 20% of applications and 50% of applications, in addition to the report for 80%, so we could get a far more detailed sense of how long processing was taking). We could see what was happening. Thus, I actually waited MORE than an EXTRA YEAR to make my application based in significant part on that (in conjunction with the Harper era draconian triage criteria for imposing RQ, both part of the same thing). THE DIFFERENCE this time around is no one saw the Covid-19 global pandemic coming. No one eligible to apply in 2019 could have reasonably anticipated that those applications would run into a big wall in March of 2020 and get buried in a backlog. Those of you who applied in 2019 and were still short of the finish line in February 2020 were, in effect, blindsided by the gods.​


A CAVEAT:

The Star is not always an entirely reliable source. And I have not otherwise seen the numbers the Star reports. As I have noted, those numbers tend to say, relative to the primary objective for this thread, to push IRCC to resume processing citizenship applications toward achieving a more or less normal timeline, that MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. But I do not mean to be staging a George Bush aircraft carrier style celebration. Especially since addressing the backlogged applications is still an outstanding concern.

But it sure is encouraging news. How encouraging depends on how consistently IRCC is progressing with both new and backlogged applications.

The other caveat, the omnipresent caveat, is that even in the best of times many find citizenship application processing dreadfully and painfully slow. Many individuals will still be in WAIT mode, and many of these applicants will be in WAIT mode for a long while. And anyone encountering non-routine processing faces the prospect of an especially slow process . . . as badly as IRCC is in dealing with a backlog, it is even worse when dealing with non-routine applications during such times.
 

luvtrump

Champion Member
Dec 21, 2020
1,340
876
Probably not. But, who knows?

Note, at the least, when the new application is opened at CPC-Sydney the official screening the application will immediately recognize that there is either an application already in process, or if that application has been withdrawn that there was an application and that it has been withdrawn. These days we do not know the precise criteria which can result in RQ-related non-routine processing, but in the past the fact there was a previous application was one of the more direct factors leading to RQ-related processing. That noted, depending on the individual's specific history and situation, what happens in individual cases varies extensively; how it actually goes for any particular individual can vary widely compared to how it goes for other applicants, even those who appear to be in very comparable situations.

Which in turn leads to . . . Any discussion about the processing timeline should clearly distinguish between statistical information versus any particular individual's processing timeline. Trends and probabilities are one thing. What happens in a specific person's case is specific to that individual, and that is subject to way too many variables, too many details, not to mention a range of conditionals and contingencies, for anyone here to in any way reliably forecast the prospective timeline for any specific person . . . that is, other than describing the trends and probabilities generally.

The latter drags this back to the backlog problem. As I previously noted, since dealing with backlogged cases is outside the routine processing stream in almost any bureaucratic context, bureaucracies in general typically have problems addressing and resolving backlogs. BUT CIC/IRCC has, in particular, an especially dismal history in this regard.

The history of how Canada handled skilled worker PR applications a decade ago is perhaps the most salient, egregious, and eventually unfair example . . . in a fashion scores of applicants with long-term pending applications suddenly had their applications, in effect, thrown out in order to eliminate the backlog. (Note, early on in this particular topic, some of the blatant fearmongering here claimed something similar was likely to happen to citizenship applicants; for many reasons that was just raw and unfounded fearmongering, and is not worth revisiting. I mention the skilled worker situation as an example of just how badly CIC/IRCC tends to deal with backlogs, not as an example about what can happen for citizenship applicants.)

Another historical example more specific to citizenship applications was also around a decade ago. There was a huge backlog of applications due to draconian measures implemented by the Harper government's effort to crack down on fraud, which was more or less resolved by the time I applied, so that processing new applications was back on track, while the backlogged applications remained bogged down. The result was that I, and many others who applied around the same time as I did, were taking the oath long before scores who had applied two, three, and some even four years before us.

A sidebar: a big difference between the situation now and the situation then, was that for many of us the direction the Harper government was headed was obvious; their rhetoric about the extent to which they perceived widespread fraud and abuses, combined with the legislation being tabled, and the steadily increasing processing timeline (back then the government was more transparent -- there were regular publicly disclosed reports showing how long it took to process 20% of applications and 50% of applications, in addition to the report for 80%, so we could get a far more detailed sense of how long processing was taking). We could see what was happening. Thus, I actually waited MORE than an EXTRA YEAR to make my application based in significant part on that (in conjunction with the Harper era draconian triage criteria for imposing RQ, both part of the same thing). THE DIFFERENCE this time around is no one saw the Covid-19 global pandemic coming. No one eligible to apply in 2019 could have reasonably anticipated that those applications would run into a big wall in March of 2020 and get buried in a backlog. Those of you who applied in 2019 and were still short of the finish line in February 2020 were, in effect, blindsided by the gods.​


A CAVEAT:

The Star is not always an entirely reliable source. And I have not otherwise seen the numbers the Star reports. As I have noted, those numbers tend to say, relative to the primary objective for this thread, to push IRCC to resume processing citizenship applications toward achieving a more or less normal timeline, that MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. But I do not mean to be staging a George Bush aircraft carrier style celebration. Especially since addressing the backlogged applications is still an outstanding concern.

But it sure is encouraging news. How encouraging depends on how consistently IRCC is progressing with both new and backlogged applications.

The other caveat, the omnipresent caveat, is that even in the best of times many find citizenship application processing dreadfully and painfully slow. Many individuals will still be in WAIT mode, and many of these applicants will be in WAIT mode for a long while. And anyone encountering non-routine processing faces the prospect of an especially slow process . . . as badly as IRCC is in dealing with a backlog, it is even worse when dealing with non-routine applications during such times.
Thanks for such detailed response much appreciated . So the conclusion is that I have to wait.