Question about listing "Absence" in the Physical Presence Calculator: Had not lived in Canada prior to becoming PR

[ybjianada]

Hi,
Apologies if this question has been asked before.

So, I am using the Physical Presence Calculator. Below is my information:
Date of becoming PR: 2017-01-16
Five-year period according to the Calculator: 2016-07-02 and 2021-07-01

I did no lived in Canada between 2016-07-02 and the date I became a PR (2017-01-16). In fact, I had not stepped foot on Canada prior to the day I became a PR.

It seems absurd for me to list any days of absence between 2016-07-02 and 2017-01-16 in the format of "Date you left Canada" and "Data your returned to Canada), but the calculator is asking me to list all absences during the five-year period as specified above. I didn't leave Canada because I was not there.

What should I do?

Thanks.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Hi,
Apologies if this question has been asked before.

So, I am using the Physical Presence Calculator. Below is my information:
Date of becoming PR: 2017-01-16
Five-year period according to the Calculator: 2016-07-02 and 2021-07-01

I did no lived in Canada between 2016-07-02 and the date I became a PR (2017-01-16). In fact, I had not stepped foot on Canada prior to the day I became a PR.

It seems absurd for me to list any days of absence between 2016-07-02 and 2017-01-16 in the format of "Date you left Canada" and "Data your returned to Canada), but the calculator is asking me to list all absences during the five-year period as specified above. I didn't leave Canada because I was not there.

What should I do?

Thanks.

You will only list absences from the date you became a PR.

 

[Rutherfords]

You will only list absences from the date you became a PR.

That is how read it too. However why have so many forum members commented, that they have answered 'Yes' to this question. And then provided an explanation, something like 'I was in country of origin, before becoming a PR'. Even some senior members have commented in vein.

When here, as the OP has clearly pointed out - filling out in the format of "Date you left Canada" and "Data your returned to Canada" is absurd. Finally your country of origin is listed as "Destination" if you answered yes to this question. When it will be read by an educated officer, should make no literal sense, since you couldn't have 'left Canada' if you never were here to begin with.

Yes, we must list all absences from Canada, but providing inaccurate information is still not justified. And anyone who has answered 'No' to the question about "were you a temporary resident, student, worker etc.?' has already clarified that they weren't in Canada for any Citizenship accountable time, prior to becoming a PR.

Anyone, any thoughts?

 

[wink]

they have answered 'Yes' to this question

What is the question you are referring to?

 

[Rutherfords]

What is the question you are referring to?

From the Online Physical Calculator:

"*Did you leave Canada between 2016-10-27 and 2021-10-26? Answer 'Yes' if you left Canada for any reason including vacation, work, business, family matters, school, illness, etc.?"

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

From the Online Physical Calculator:

"*Did you leave Canada between 2016-10-27 and 2021-10-26? Answer 'Yes' if you left Canada for any reason including vacation, work, business, family matters, school, illness, etc.?"

IF you were a temporary resident in Canada before you became a PR, you must list those absences if it falls within the eligibility period. However, if you became a PR first, then all the trips you took after you became a PR should be listed.

 

[CaBeaver]

From the Online Physical Calculator:

"*Did you leave Canada between 2016-10-27 and 2021-10-26? Answer 'Yes' if you left Canada for any reason including vacation, work, business, family matters, school, illness, etc.?"

I would answer yes to the scenario above and list where I was before I became PR as they asked for the 5 years period without specifying any exceptions. At the end, it doesn't alter the number of days you were actually in Canada, so it doesn't hurt to provide more details.

 

[Rutherfords]

IF you were a temporary resident in Canada before you became a PR, you must list those absences if it falls within the eligibility period. However, if you became a PR first, then all the trips you took after you became a PR should be listed.

Thank you!

However if you never took a trip outside Canada after you became PR, but were in your country of origin before moving to Canada as PR - would you recommend answering - Yes or No, to the question:

From the Online Physical Calculator:
"*Did you leave Canada between 2016-10-27 and 2021-10-26? Answer 'Yes' if you left Canada for any reason including vacation, work, business, family matters, school, illness, etc.?"

My only doubt is about them asking about all 'Absences from Canada' on the calculator - though their question wording is absurd - One cannot leave, before one comes over to Canada. All in all, I understand their question is odd, but what are they expecting us to answer here, if you only moved here after becoming a PR and never left in the eligibility period?

 

[Rutherfords]

I would answer yes to the scenario above and list where I was before I became PR as they asked for the 5 years period without specifying any exceptions. At the end, it doesn't alter the number of days you were actually in Canada, so it doesn't hurt to provide more details.

Wouldn't that be incorrect - for the simple reason, that you couldn't have 'left' Canada, if you were not in Canada before you became a PR, to begin with?

Plus, you've already told them that you were not in Canada before you became a PR. So, for the period - lets say, between 2016-10-25 and 2018-07-05 they have a question, to ask you about your presence in Canada, namely:-

"*Did you have Canadian temporary resident status (i.e. as a visitor, international student, temporary worker, temporary resident permit holder), and/or were a protected person) between 2016-10-25 and 2018-07-05?"

So they already know you were not in Canada prior to becoming a PR, so the explanation becomes redundant and also incorrect.

 

[CaBeaver]

Wouldn't that be incorrect - for the simple reason, that you couldn't have 'left' Canada, if you were not in Canada before you became a PR, to begin with?

Plus, you've already told them that you were not in Canada before you became a PR. So, for the period - lets say, between 2016-10-25 and 2018-07-05 they have a question, to ask you about your presence in Canada, namely:-

"*Did you have Canadian temporary resident status (i.e. as a visitor, international student, temporary worker, temporary resident permit holder), and/or were a protected person) between 2016-10-25 and 2018-07-05?"

So they already know you were not in Canada prior to becoming a PR, so the explanation becomes redundant and also incorrect.

If you answered "no" to the question

Did you leave Canada between 2016-10-27 and 2021-10-26? Answer 'Yes' if you left Canada for any reason including vacation, work, business, family matters, school, illness, etc.

you are implying you were in Canada. I suspect the question is articulated in a way to cover both possibilities: if you lived or didn't live in Canada before you become a PR. The second question [in bold] is there only to calculate any days before you become a PR. In this is case it's 0. So, listing all your destinations outside Canada in the 5 years period only seems logical to me. There is nothing new you are adding. You already declaring your destinations anyway in the application, and doesn't change your actual presence days.

 

[armoured]

This is a serious matter, I just don't know whether it's best to write to the Canadian Pedantry Commission or the Department of Elimination of Redundancy Department.

It's a government form, it's clunky and not always clear. Alert the press.

 

[Rutherfords]

If you answered "no" to the question

you are implying you were in Canada. I suspect the question is articulated in a way to cover both possibilities: if you lived or didn't live in Canada before you become a PR. The second question [in bold] is there only to calculate any days before you become a PR. In this is case it's 0. So, listing all your destinations outside Canada in the 5 years period only seems logical to me. There is nothing new you are adding. You already declaring your destinations anyway in the application, and doesn't change your actual presence days.

If you answered 'No' to the former question, you are clearly informing them that you were not in Canada for any of the reasons that correspond to claiming days towards Citizenship. Therefore you not implying that you were in Canada. With a clear 'No' to the question that you were not in Canada as a temporary resident status (i.e. as a visitor, international student, temporary worker, temporary resident permit holder), and/or were a protected person).

For the second question - You can only have had a 'Destination' and that you 'left' Canada, if you were starting out from Canada to begin with. Therefore telling them that you had a destination, is tantamount to implying that you actually 'left' Canada, even though you were not even in Canada at the time, one probably was in one's home country.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Thank you!

However if you never took a trip outside Canada after you became PR, but were in your country of origin before moving to Canada as PR - would you recommend answering - Yes or No, to the question:

From the Online Physical Calculator:
"*Did you leave Canada between 2016-10-27 and 2021-10-26? Answer 'Yes' if you left Canada for any reason including vacation, work, business, family matters, school, illness, etc.?"

My only doubt is about them asking about all 'Absences from Canada' on the calculator - though their question wording is absurd - One cannot leave, before one comes over to Canada. All in all, I understand their question is odd, but what are they expecting us to answer here, if you only moved here after becoming a PR and never left in the eligibility period?

No. If you were never a temporary resident AND you never took a trip after becoming a PR, you will answer NO to this question.

 

[Rutherfords]

No. If you were never a temporary resident AND you never took a trip after becoming a PR, you will answer NO to this question.

Thank you!

 

[Rutherfords]

You are fixating on the semantics too much. Do whatever feels write to you. Personally I would list all my destinations and let them figure the rest out.

I appreciate your responses. Helps put all interpretations on the table so anyone reading his can make a more informed decision.
Well, the entire form is about getting the semantics right, but also its intent. Anyway thank you for sharing your opinion. I hope someone reading this can benefit from our little 'chat'. Cheers!