No more quarantine????!!!!!!!!!!!

[Omerbabiker6]

Border measures must be simple, easy to understand, equitable and consider both benefits and harms

• The current requirement for all air travellers to quarantine in government-authorized accommodations should be discontinued. However, travellers subject to quarantine must provide a suitable quarantine plan for approval and then adhere to this plan. If the traveller does not have a suitable quarantine plan, they should be required to adhere to an alternative one (for example, in designated quarantine facilities).
• Testing requirements that vary by country of origin should not be implemented for travellers entering Canada except under unique circumstances. Increased monitoring of quarantine compliance should be considered for travellers arriving from countries with new variants of concern.
• As much as possible, land and air border measures should be consistent.

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-health-products/covid19-industry/medical-devices/testing-screening-advisory-panel/reports-summaries/priority-strategies-quarantine-borders.html


Discuss please

 

[wonderbly]

Where does it say no more quarantine?
Moreover, this is just a recommendation for now, not approved/adopted yet.

 

[Simba112]

Border measures must be simple, easy to understand, equitable and consider both benefits and harms

• The current requirement for all air travellers to quarantine in government-authorized accommodations should be discontinued. However, travellers subject to quarantine must provide a suitable quarantine plan for approval and then adhere to this plan. If the traveller does not have a suitable quarantine plan, they should be required to adhere to an alternative one (for example, in designated quarantine facilities).
• Testing requirements that vary by country of origin should not be implemented for travellers entering Canada except under unique circumstances. Increased monitoring of quarantine compliance should be considered for travellers arriving from countries with new variants of concern.
• As much as possible, land and air border measures should be consistent.

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-health-products/covid19-industry/medical-devices/testing-screening-advisory-panel/reports-summaries/priority-strategies-quarantine-borders.html


Discuss please

It justs a recomendation like any other. three bullets above contradicting

 

[fritchou]

Where does it say no more quarantine?
Moreover, this is just a recommendation for now, not approved/adopted yet.

i think it's matter of time before approving it especially when cases are falling in Canada and more than 50% of population had at least one dose of vaccination. i think by july/august they will decrease the measures. at least the 3 days mandatory hotel which is very costly especially for students. but they will keep the arrival test and the 7th day test. i think that is perfect. IMO the mandatory 3 days is useless. it brings more interaction and movement instead of travelers being in one place for 14 days. praying for that because that will be a sad to spend 4k for both ticket + quarantine plan

 

[Simba112]

i think it's matter of time before approving it especially when cases are falling in Canada and more than 50% of population had at least one dose of vaccination. i think by july/august they will decrease the measures. at least the 3 days mandatory hotel which is very costly especially for students. but they will keep the arrival test and the 7th day test. i think that is perfect. IMO the mandatory 3 days is useless. it brings more interaction and movement instead of travelers being in one place for 14 days. praying for that because that will be a sad to spend 4k for both ticket + quarantine plan

I dont know how you define 3 days as very costly and “useless”. I can arrive to that conclusion if i ignore scientific recommendation plus economic costs this pandemic has brought to this country, including loss of life. If i look at this way, lets do whatever it takes not to loose any more lives and restart the economy. As much as i take into consideration international travellers perspective, that they are depressed and loss money but i also believe this Government did not do enough from last year March. We wouldnt be here if they shutdown down airspace, land and strictly restriction inside for just 2-4 weeks, All we are asking was to sacrifice 2-4 weeks, we wouldnt be in this situation. AU/NZ is my model study

 

[wonderbly]

i think it's matter of time before approving it especially when cases are falling in Canada and more than 50% of population had at least one dose of vaccination. i think by july/august they will decrease the measures. at least the 3 days mandatory hotel which is very costly especially for students. but they will keep the arrival test and the 7th day test. i think that is perfect. IMO the mandatory 3 days is useless. it brings more interaction and movement instead of travelers being in one place for 14 days. praying for that because that will be a sad to spend 4k for both ticket + quarantine plan

I agree it's expensive but it was a necessary measure at the time. Perhaps they could have offered cheaper alternatives but the prohibitive cost was a strategy to deter people from making avoidable trips.

 

[fritchou]

I dont know how you define 3 days as very costly and “useless”. I can arrive to that conclusion if i ignore scientific recommendation plus economic costs this pandemic has brought to this country, including loss of life. If i look at this way, lets do whatever it takes not to loose any more lives and restart the economy. As much as i take into consideration international travellers perspective, that they are depressed and loss money but i also believe this Government did not do enough from last year March. We wouldnt be here if they shutdown down airspace, land and strictly restriction inside for just 2-4 weeks, All we are asking was to sacrifice 2-4 weeks, we wouldnt be in this situation. AU/NZ is my model study

you are right but statis proved that more cases were reported even after implenting the 3 days mandatory thing. many people tested positive upon arrival and many students get caught sharing accommodation ( what i mean is either mandatory 14 days with reasonable cost or traveler must provide strong plan for 14 days + negative tests upon arrival. or make mendatory 14 days quatine for 1-2 months and that will help in solving the problem and break the circle.

 

[Simba112]

I agree it's expensive but it was a necessary measure at the time. Perhaps they could have offered cheaper alternatives but the prohibitive cost was a strategy to deter people from making avoidable trips.

Thats right. Ticket for violations of PHO at the beginning was $200, but now its almost $750,000.

 

[fritchou]

I agree it's expensive but it was a necessary measure at the time. Perhaps they could have offered cheaper alternatives but the prohibitive cost was a strategy to deter people from making avoidable trips.

i agree. but i would have prefered a mendatory 14 days quarantine with original hotel cost per night ( + small fees ) than making 3 days + another 11 days

 

[Simba112]

you are right but statis proved that more cases were reported even after implenting the 3 days mandatory thing. many people tested positive upon arrival and many students get caught sharing accommodation ( what i mean is either mandatory 14 days with reasonable cost or traveler must provide strong plan for 14 days + negative tests upon arrival. or make mendatory 14 days quatine for 1-2 months and that will help in solving the problem and break the circle.

Because very few follow guidelines properly, others dont. I dont have actual data but im relying on what is reported on media and cbsa.

At the begining, there was recommendations to shut down everything two weeks, people were like virus cannot be more costly than the economy. Now the second wave, was more costly, and business suffered dearly. Same international student who is expecting to find part time job but do not support these restrictions, will face a situation where its hard to find pt job. Its a short sight approach. Same as for graduant with pgwp looking for a job during pandemic. Strong restriction, makes easier to reopen the economy, more jobs for everyone

 

[wonderbly]

i agree. but i would have prefered a mendatory 14 days quarantine with original hotel cost per night ( + small fees ) than making 3 days + another 11 days

Consider the amount of resources it would take to track people and follow them up if they are allowed to go freely into the country whilst waiting for their covid test result. It's much easier to keep them in a govt-approved facility where they can be easily monitored. After the result is out and you are -ve, then you are free to go into your own arranged quarantine facility (a privilege which we know for a fact that most people abuse by not properly isolating).

The cost of the hotels are probably justified considering the overhead involved - they would probably not allow any other guests to stay there, their staff would probably get tested regularly, not to mention the inconvenience and risk of catching the virus from foreign guests.

I'm sure if you wanted to spend the entire 14 days at the govt-approved hotel, you could.

 

[wonderbly]

you are right but statis proved that more cases were reported even after implenting the 3 days mandatory thing. many people tested positive upon arrival and many students get caught sharing accommodation ( what i mean is either mandatory 14 days with reasonable cost or traveler must provide strong plan for 14 days + negative tests upon arrival. or make mendatory 14 days quatine for 1-2 months and that will help in solving the problem and break the circle.

This is because people don't follow social distancing rules. The numbers rose because they were testing these people and the infections were caught. Imagine if the covid carriers were allowed to enter Canada without the 3-day mandatory quarantine? They would most likely infect way more people, who will then infect way more people. And since they won't all get tested, will be even harder to contain the spread.

 

[wonderbly]

I dont know how you define 3 days as very costly and “useless”. I can arrive to that conclusion if i ignore scientific recommendation plus economic costs this pandemic has brought to this country, including loss of life. If i look at this way, lets do whatever it takes not to loose any more lives and restart the economy. As much as i take into consideration international travellers perspective, that they are depressed and loss money but i also believe this Government did not do enough from last year March. We wouldnt be here if they shutdown down airspace, land and strictly restriction inside for just 2-4 weeks, All we are asking was to sacrifice 2-4 weeks, we wouldnt be in this situation. AU/NZ is my model study

I kinda understand why people wanting to come in are mad. Why have different set of rules for air and land borders? Like you said, Canada should have shutdown all entry points and dealt with the local cases more decisively...

 

[wonderbly]

I think everyone arguing for the case of hotel quarantine simply assumes that hotels, which as private, for-profit entities, control covid infections very well. I don't know if you have been keeping track, but multiple approved hotel quarantine facilities themselves have had covid outbreaks (Source: https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/third-toronto-airport-quarantine-hotel-hit-by-covid-outbreak). As a matter of fact, travellers themselves can get infected in these facilities. Not to mention extensive queuing and hassles around transportation to the hotel. There have not been any solutions to these topics, since many hotels simple ask you to take a cab and come, which I wonder how solves the problem of virus spread that this system was designed to control in the first place. The current government itself has been criticised for the implementation of hotel quarantines, which on papers sounds like a good idea, but hasn't been implemented that way. Not to mention, someone travelling from land borders through the US does not need to quarantine, so if you have a US visa, you can go home and quarantine by flying through the US. The problem is never in the idea, it is in the loopholes that it has. Nobody minds paying more for a good system and looking at the NZ model. Well, NZ doesn't share land borders. They have implemented their programs well. While copying ideas, every country needs to look inwards what's doable and what's not. And that's exactly why the expert panel has recommended scrapping the three-day hotel thing in the first place.

No one is saying the strategy was perfect, or even effective. All I'm saying is that the situation necessitated it. The COVID situation is bad all around, they had to do what they felt was best, as shutting down international travels completely was not an option, and clearly letting people lose in the country pending their test results was not working as they were flaunting the rules.

I think it's good that they are at least willing to admit that the plan didn't work as well as they'd hoped, therefore time to scrap it.

Ultimately, mass vaccination and herd immunity is the only solution to this problem - which is what most of us are holding out for.

 

[Simba112]

I think everyone arguing for the case of hotel quarantine simply assumes that hotels, which as private, for-profit entities, control covid infections very well. I don't know if you have been keeping track, but multiple approved hotel quarantine facilities themselves have had covid outbreaks (Source: https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/third-toronto-airport-quarantine-hotel-hit-by-covid-outbreak). As a matter of fact, travellers themselves can get infected in these facilities. Not to mention extensive queuing and hassles around transportation to the hotel. There have not been any solutions to these topics, since many hotels simple ask you to take a cab and come, which I wonder how solves the problem of virus spread that this system was designed to control in the first place. The current government itself has been criticised for the implementation of hotel quarantines, which on papers sounds like a good idea, but hasn't been implemented that way. Not to mention, someone travelling from land borders through the US does not need to quarantine, so if you have a US visa, you can go home and quarantine by flying through the US. The problem is never in the idea, it is in the loopholes that it has. Nobody minds paying more for a good system and looking at the NZ model. Well, NZ doesn't share land borders. They have implemented their programs well. While copying ideas, every country needs to look inwards what's doable and what's not. And that's exactly why the expert panel has recommended scrapping the three-day hotel thing in the first place.

I dont agree with an expert recommendation on scrapping hotel quarantine as there is no meaningful alternatives provided. Yes NZ and AU do not share landborder but what i suggested and still standwith was to have a total shutdown somewhere last year as all other measures were not working in timely manner. Exception could be on monitored cargos. I dont think AU/NZ success story was because they dont share landborder, then they imported all the cases from air travellers… We also dont have breakdown of cases imported from landborders either or they are available but not for public, so in absence of both then desperate measures are what we are asking.