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Leaving after PR

canuck1994

Newbie
May 29, 2021
5
0
Hi,
I received my PR 190 days ago but I have received a job offer in Europe (Berlin, DE) which is highly lucrative.
If I take this job for the long term I will not be able to satisfy residency requirements of Canada, but is there any way I can approach this? I am still 3-3.5 years away from being eligible to apply for citizenship and am currently aged 26.

What is the solution for this (If there is even one)?

Best wishes
 

IndianBos

Hero Member
Oct 8, 2014
313
142
Toronto, Canada
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
CPC-O
NOC Code......
2174
App. Filed.......
19-Jun-2014
Nomination.....
16-Oct-2014
File Transfer...
11-Dec-2014
Med's Request
24-Apr-2015 (Delayed for adding a child)
Med's Done....
9-May-2015 (Updated 29-May-2015)
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
17-Jun-2015 (mailed 29-June-2015)
VISA ISSUED...
11-Jul-2015
LANDED..........
7-Sep-2015
Hi,
I received my PR 190 days ago but I have received a job offer in Europe (Berlin, DE) which is highly lucrative.
If I take this job for the long term I will not be able to satisfy residency requirements of Canada, but is there any way I can approach this? I am still 3-3.5 years away from being eligible to apply for citizenship and am currently aged 26.

What is the solution for this (If there is even one)?

Best wishes
Not being able to satisfy the RO will definitely add risk to returning back, I dont see a solution.
On second thoughts, you are young and should be able to easily qualify for a PR even after 5 years (assuming process remains the same).
 

canuck1994

Newbie
May 29, 2021
5
0
Not being able to satisfy the RO will definitely add risk to returning back, I dont see a solution.
On second thoughts, you are young and should be able to easily qualify for a PR even after 5 years (assuming process remains the same).
Thank you for the reply. Is there any expert I can consult on this topic to solve this issue? I am getting offered 4x the salary here, but the permanent residence process is roughly 10 years there and I do wish to come back to Canada eventually as this is a better country for me overall.
Surely someone must have done something of this sort before?

Thank you
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,863
22,119
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Thank you for the reply. Is there any expert I can consult on this topic to solve this issue? I am getting offered 4x the salary here, but the permanent residence process is roughly 10 years there and I do wish to come back to Canada eventually as this is a better country for me overall.
Surely someone must have done something of this sort before?

Thank you
Sure - there are lots of people on this forum who have faced the same decision you have.

Ultimately you need to make a choice between meeting the PR residency requirement and taking the lucrative job knowing that this might result in the loss of your PR status. There unfortunately no way to put your PR status on hold or extend it because you are working outside of Canada.

If you want to try to keep your PR status and take a job outside of Canada temporarily, then you would want to make sure you return to Canada before you have been outside of Canada for three full years. Then you'll be fine provided you live in Canada for the next two years to meet the residency obligation for PR.
 

canuck1994

Newbie
May 29, 2021
5
0
Sure - there are lots of people on this forum who have faced the same decision you have.

Ultimately you need to make a choice between meeting the PR residency requirement and taking the lucrative job knowing that this might result in the loss of your PR status. There unfortunately no way to put your PR status on hold or extend it because you are working outside of Canada.

If you want to try to keep your PR status and take a job outside of Canada temporarily, then you would want to make sure you return to Canada before you have been outside of Canada for three full years. Then you'll be fine provided you live in Canada for the next two years to meet the residency obligation for PR.
What do most people end up doing in that case? Are there any lawyers specialized in this topic?
 

IndianBos

Hero Member
Oct 8, 2014
313
142
Toronto, Canada
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
CPC-O
NOC Code......
2174
App. Filed.......
19-Jun-2014
Nomination.....
16-Oct-2014
File Transfer...
11-Dec-2014
Med's Request
24-Apr-2015 (Delayed for adding a child)
Med's Done....
9-May-2015 (Updated 29-May-2015)
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
17-Jun-2015 (mailed 29-June-2015)
VISA ISSUED...
11-Jul-2015
LANDED..........
7-Sep-2015
What do most people end up doing in that case? Are there any lawyers specialized in this topic?
Usually, people make a decision what they want to do with Canada PR. There are many people in the Green Card queue in the US with Canadian PR, they had to decide between the two and didnt meet the RO.
I am sure you can find an immigration lawyer to consult through a simple google search and paying them a fee, give it a try for your peace of mind.
 

canuck1994

Newbie
May 29, 2021
5
0
Usually, people make a decision what they want to do with Canada PR. There are many people in the Green Card queue in the US with Canadian PR, they had to decide between the two and didnt meet the RO.
I am sure you can find an immigration lawyer to consult through a simple google search and paying them a fee, give it a try for your peace of mind.
If one opts to stay for citizenship, what is the time commitment exactly? What would you do in this case? Job in Canada for €90,000 or move to Europe for €300,000 job but no path to permanent residence? I do not want to return to my home country
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
If one opts to stay for citizenship, what is the time commitment exactly? What would you do in this case? Job in Canada for €90,000 or move to Europe for €300,000 job but no path to permanent residence? I do not want to return to my home country
Setting aside the time commitment to become a Canadian citizen; considering the what-to-do question:

There are many questions, many decisions an individual may need to make, which only the individual can answer, decisions only the individual can make. The best a forum like this can do is offer information which might help an individual, like yourself, make a more informed decision.

After all, in terms of weighing priorities, a huge factor is why YOU, you in particular, "do not want to return to [your] home country," and how important that is to YOU. Another huge factor is what other options YOU, you in particular, might have.

An annual income equivalent to nearly a half million Canadian dollars is, one might reasonably say, for most people anyway, a rather compelling invitation. Something to especially consider for at least a year or two, and then perhaps re-evaluating things before the hard decision has to be made.

An annual income equivalent to 130k in Canadian dollars would be a rather good income for many Canadians, but not so great for others, and it can depend a lot on where one lives in Canada. That's about three times the median in the region where I live, and otherwise enough to maintain a decent even if only modest lifestyle. But I do not live in one of Canada's major metropolitan areas where just the cost of housing alone can challenge the budgets of anyone shy of being among the more affluent.

In the meantime, the PR Residency Obligation is not mere policy. It is fixed by law. There appears to be a significant degree of leniency in how it is being enforced now, in the wake of the global pandemic. But that is not likely to last. I suspect more than a few people find ways to push the envelope, test its limits, but generally someone granted Canadian PR status needs to settle in Canada to stay within three years of getting PR status. And getting close to three years before coming to settle is cutting-it-close, at risk for stuff-happens stuff making it difficult or impossible to actually get here in that time frame.


Time commitment for becoming a Canadian citizen:

Takes more than just spending time in Canada to become a citizen. The current actual physical presence requirement, to be eligible for a grant of citizenship, is three years within a five year time frame. But spending that amount of time here does not guarantee a grant of citizenship.

Over the course of the last six years, there have been three different time-in-Canada eligibility requirements for Canadian citizenship. Seems unlikely to change again in the next few years but compare that to the PR Residency Obligation, for which it has been nearly TWO decades since it last changed.

There seems to be no shortage of immigrants relying on getting Canadian citizenship and relocating elsewhere as soon as possible, with more than a few doing the relocating after they become eligible and make the application, but before they are actually granted citizenship, planning on returning to Canada as necessary to complete the process. Appears to work for many. It is apparent that many others encounter problems.

In any event, the absolute minimum timeline is three years plus long enough to cover absences in the meantime. But again, just being in Canada for three years does not guarantee a grant of citizenship.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,863
22,119
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
If one opts to stay for citizenship, what is the time commitment exactly? What would you do in this case? Job in Canada for €90,000 or move to Europe for €300,000 job but no path to permanent residence? I do not want to return to my home country
No one here can tell you what to do. This is a decision you'll need to make on your own weighing the pros and cons of each option.

Hiring a lawyer won't solve this problem for you. Ultimately you will still be faced with the same decision that you will need to make.
 

canuck1994

Newbie
May 29, 2021
5
0
Setting aside the time commitment to become a Canadian citizen; considering the what-to-do question:

There are many questions, many decisions an individual may need to make, which only the individual can answer, decisions only the individual can make. The best a forum like this can do is offer information which might help an individual, like yourself, make a more informed decision.

After all, in terms of weighing priorities, a huge factor is why YOU, you in particular, "do not want to return to [your] home country," and how important that is to YOU. Another huge factor is what other options YOU, you in particular, might have.

An annual income equivalent to nearly a half million Canadian dollars is, one might reasonably say, for most people anyway, a rather compelling invitation. Something to especially consider for at least a year or two, and then perhaps re-evaluating things before the hard decision has to be made.

An annual income equivalent to 130k in Canadian dollars would be a rather good income for many Canadians, but not so great for others, and it can depend a lot on where one lives in Canada. That's about three times the median in the region where I live, and otherwise enough to maintain a decent even if only modest lifestyle. But I do not live in one of Canada's major metropolitan areas where just the cost of housing alone can challenge the budgets of anyone shy of being among the more affluent.

In the meantime, the PR Residency Obligation is not mere policy. It is fixed by law. There appears to be a significant degree of leniency in how it is being enforced now, in the wake of the global pandemic. But that is not likely to last. I suspect more than a few people find ways to push the envelope, test its limits, but generally someone granted Canadian PR status needs to settle in Canada to stay within three years of getting PR status. And getting close to three years before coming to settle is cutting-it-close, at risk for stuff-happens stuff making it difficult or impossible to actually get here in that time frame.


Time commitment for becoming a Canadian citizen:

Takes more than just spending time in Canada to become a citizen. The current actual physical presence requirement, to be eligible for a grant of citizenship, is three years within a five year time frame. But spending that amount of time here does not guarantee a grant of citizenship.

Over the course of the last six years, there have been three different time-in-Canada eligibility requirements for Canadian citizenship. Seems unlikely to change again in the next few years but compare that to the PR Residency Obligation, for which it has been nearly TWO decades since it last changed.

There seems to be no shortage of immigrants relying on getting Canadian citizenship and relocating elsewhere as soon as possible, with more than a few doing the relocating after they become eligible and make the application, but before they are actually granted citizenship, planning on returning to Canada as necessary to complete the process. Appears to work for many. It is apparent that many others encounter problems.

In any event, the absolute minimum timeline is three years plus long enough to cover absences in the meantime. But again, just being in Canada for three years does not guarantee a grant of citizenship.
Thanks for the elaborate response. $130k CAD is a nice income, but $450k CAD in Europe (with generally lower costs) could speed up my retirement and provide a better life for my family. On the other hand I do not have guaranteed stability there and getting fired or laid off is immediate ticket back t homeland, which is .....

On the other hand its very hard to leave that much money on the table considering house prices here and so on.

If I give up my PR status here, what would be the procedure to revive/re-get it given I was already a PR once? To be clear I lived in this country total of 7 years until now (5 years study, 1 year working on permit, <1 year on PR) so I have a long history here. Could buying a property or something else help?

I do want to come back here after earning some good money so I can buy a house, right now it seems like a distant dream considering where I am (Vancouver).
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,284
8,889
If I give up my PR status here, what would be the procedure to revive/re-get it given I was already a PR once? To be clear I lived in this country total of 7 years until now (5 years study, 1 year working on permit, <1 year on PR) so I have a long history here. Could buying a property or something else help?
Respectfully, I think you are overthinking this and over-complicating.

If you want to preserve your PR status with minimal risk, spend less than three years abroad. (Ideally with an additional buffer to allow for travel and contingencies, particularly if your profession may require travel). If you want zero risk and to get citizenship sooner - remain in Canada.

That's it. Beware of the 'golden handcuffs' and elaborate schemes in future. Beware of assuming you can make it work somehow by renouncing and re-applying. Decide when the time comes, should you decide it's worth it to take the position available (and the money) now. Perhaps something will come up, perhaps you'll find a way to work for the Berlin employer from abroad, perhaps they'll go out of business.

You will still be a PR, in compliance, for ~3 years - or two/two and a half with a buffer.

Be aware, of course, that the monetary 'bump' from being elsewhere might never come in Canada - particularly if not in country to build the professional networks and local knowledge that tends to be part of such employment (human capital).

In my view, there's nothing a lawyer could tell you now of use, and no advance 'planning' from an immigration perspective that would resolve your dilemma.

If you want professional advice - consider career consulting (whatever that's called, I'm drawing a blank) for your profession; perhaps there are opportunities / ways to make yourself more attractive to Canadian employers. (Perhaps you will hear that, for example, you can expect a more commensurate salary after a year of in-Canada experience, and that might make the monetary differential more acceptable).

The answer to your dilemma is really not likely to be found in Canadian immigration law or regs.
 

steaky

VIP Member
Nov 11, 2008
14,781
1,752
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Could buying a property or something else help?

I do want to come back here after earning some good money so I can buy a house, right now it seems like a distant dream considering where I am (Vancouver).
Buying a property wouldn't help. In fact, there's much work to do online for declaration. if leave it vacant, will be subject to vacancy tax from both the municipal and provincial governments.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,863
22,119
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Thanks for the elaborate response. $130k CAD is a nice income, but $450k CAD in Europe (with generally lower costs) could speed up my retirement and provide a better life for my family. On the other hand I do not have guaranteed stability there and getting fired or laid off is immediate ticket back t homeland, which is .....

On the other hand its very hard to leave that much money on the table considering house prices here and so on.

If I give up my PR status here, what would be the procedure to revive/re-get it given I was already a PR once? To be clear I lived in this country total of 7 years until now (5 years study, 1 year working on permit, <1 year on PR) so I have a long history here. Could buying a property or something else help?

I do want to come back here after earning some good money so I can buy a house, right now it seems like a distant dream considering where I am (Vancouver).
I think you're overthinking this as well.

There's no decision you need to make right now. Take the job outside of Canada.

Once you get close to being outside of Canada for 3 years, you will then need to make a decision if you return to meet the residency obligation / keep PR status or if other avenues have opened up to you in Europe.

If for some reason you end up losing your PR status, you would need to apply from scratch using the economic immigration programs in place when you apply. There will be no benefit or short cut as a result of your previous PR status. You'll need to qualify and be selected just like anyone else. Buying a property won't help.
 

Shmiler

Star Member
Oct 19, 2020
134
102
Germany is a fine country, and I'm sure you would enjoy your time there.

The problem seems to be that you come from a country from which you don't want to return, and that this position in Germany does not offer a rapid route to citizenship. Therefore you're reluctant to give up on the Canadian PR, as it is your "port in the storm".

As has been mentioned above, take the job in Germany. Assess after one year, two years, and then as you approach your third year that is the point you need to make the decision as to whether you return to Canada or continue in Germany. Things can change in those three years.

My husband is In a fairly similar situation in that he works in the UK, but has his Canadian PR. The reason he hasn't fully relocated is his pay is over 400k Cdn per year and he just wouldn't get anywhere close to that in Canada. Truly "golden handcuffs" as @armoured pointed out.

Good luck with your adventure!
 
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