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Refusal based on Asian Discrimination and Intent

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,142
8,797
Thanks everyone for the kind replies and very insightful information. I think we will now do the inland route so this means we will have to enter Canada before her passport/visa expires on May 2022. Does anyone know how long after I get in Canada I should apply for her PR? Should I find a job in before actually going back or look for one once I'm there? How about for her: I hear she can get an open work permit after a few months, what are the requirements for this? And what actually would be the differences of getting the work permit and working vs getting the PR? Like free healthcare and what else? I need to really think about all the angles as she will be giving up a big job and so will I in Thailand to come back to Canada.

I am also thinking of emailing Singapore for one last chance and actually showing them a job offer and place to reside in Canada which I will start working on, do you think then they could reverse the decision or is it a lost cause once they made the decision?
That sounds like you've had that beer or a chance to think calmly for a day or two. (We all understand, it's stressful).

A small warning, I think that answers to a lot of your questions above have a lot more nuance and depend more on your personal circumstances - i.e. to some degree there are no right or wrong answers, but only input/opinions that only you can decide upon.

In no particular order:
-sure, you can write singapore. I have no idea whether there is any chance that they would change their decision, but I don't think it can hurt. I suspect that once a refusal is entered into the system, that's it - but I don't know for certain. But why not try?
-you can apply for PR basically immediately arriving in Canada. Whether it makes more sense to prepare more and apply a little bit later - judgment call.
-overall I would tend to guess that returning earlier/arriving in Canada soonest is in your favour more than arriving (for example) they day before your spouse's TRV expires. I don't mean to say you have to get on a plane tomorrow, but roughly, sooner is better - in no small part because you can file the inland application sooner.
-read up on the inland process and the open work permit, there are many threads here. "A few months" is optimistic in covid times, but who knows.
-primary advantage of the open work permit vs PR coming later is the right to work earlier. Additional benefit is health care after starting work. (Details vary by province, as I understand, not an expert). That might be a gain of a few months, or more, or less, depending on how long the whole process takes.
-Finding a job before applying: I am guessing it does not make much difference - you might gain a bit of time here, lose a bit there; may also depend on eg savings (because you are showing you can support yourselves). They will ask you to show that you can support your spouse although there are no specific monetary or income minimums; if (for example) you apply before finding a job and then provide them with update on your employment during the processing, should be okay. If you apply with a concrete job offer starting (eg.) a week later, that might be preferable - but probably not worth waiting three months to apply.
-Roughly arguably the same for housing - if you apply while staying with family temporarily and then update later with lease and new address in your own name, will be taken into account. Both of these points are probably more about seriousness than concrete legal requirements.

As I said these are more opinions (hopefully somewhat informed) than hard yes/no answers.

The biggest difference will be applying from within Canada, followed by evidence that you're settled/settling in earnest.


And I repeat - order the GCMS notes. Costs five dollars and perhaps half hour of your time.
 
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armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,142
8,797
A small note about writing to Singapore - as polite and calm and factual and brief as possible, a request and not a complaint about unfairness. With whatever additional evidence you may have.

Do mention you are ready to relocate asap but were unsure of timelines and general uncertainty in covid times.

Suggest not mentioning plans to go with spouse and apply inland. Stick to the specifics of your request only.

And I wouldn't spend a lot of time on it because the default will be to stick to their decision. Won't hurt doesn't mean it will work.
 

nubeado

Full Member
May 21, 2021
41
5
Hi everyone,


I am a Canadian expat living in Bangkok, Thailand. I started my application for my Thai wife in April 2020. We are planning coming to Quebec and everything was smooth sailing and I even got her the CSQ acceptance. All but until I got a letter from the Singapore office which asked for the following:

-A letter from my current employer that I have resigned
-A letter that I got a new job in Canada
-Proof that I have terminated my lease
-Any kind of proof that I have the intent to come back to Canada

I then sent back documents showing conversations of my wife and I speaking to my parents of looking for houses, a full on document with my step by step plan on what I'll be doing when I get back and also bank statements showing that I'm transferring money from Thailand back to Canada. It was very risky for me to resign from my job and terminate my lease before they granted the PR so this is why I did not supply it.

I got a refusal because they were not satisfied with my intent. According to a lawyer I spoke with, they are discriminatory against Asian countries applying and have rejected 99% of applications coming from countries like Vietnam, Thailand, Philippines, etc.


Question now is: what do I do moving forward?


1) Do I appeal the decision. The lawyer says it will take 2.5 years to 3 years to have the decision reversed!


2) Do I start the process all over again outland? Since I got rejected, how much time do I need to re-apply and do this nightmare all over again. The lawyer quoted around 8000 CAD for this process


3) Do I fly out there while my wife has a Canadian tourist visa (it expires May 2022) and apply inland? The lawyer quoted 7000 CAD for this process. As it is covid time, it takes time and extra permission papers in order to do this.


4) Her passport and Canadian tourist visa expires in May 2022. At that time, am I able to re-apply for a Canadian tourist visa expires or since she got rejected for the PR, that will hurt her chances? Perhaps the covid situation will be better? I’m just checking if this is an option,


Thanks for the help and advice, please feel free to give me all angles and played out scenarios.

Regards



A Canadian in distress
Your lawyer just wants to make money... If I were you I would just reapply and the proof they ask period.
 

constance23

Star Member
Sep 21, 2018
76
31
Hi @hollafame,

I just wanna ask if you have received your Sponsorship Approval? Or were you refused after you've gotten your SA?

Did your wife received this email? Or was it sent directly to you?

I'm sorry for asking, I'm a bit curious as I'm in the middle of waiting for our results as well.

I'm sorry for your refusal btw :(
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,142
8,797
I just wanna ask if you have received your Sponsorship Approval? Or were you refused after you've gotten your SA?
From gcms notes (own and various), sponsorship approval does not mean that this aspect of file is completely approved - ie the intent to return - as gcms notes will say sponsor is citizen residing abroad and intent to return will need to be evaluated (or language to that effect). In other words, the final decision on that aspect is done later in process.
 
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constance23

Star Member
Sep 21, 2018
76
31
From gcms notes (own and various), sponsorship approval does not mean that this aspect of file is completely approved - ie the intent to return - as gcms notes will say sponsor is citizen residing abroad and intent to return will need to be evaluated (or language to that effect). In other words, the final decision on that aspect is done later in process.
Thank you @armoured! :)

I understand, they've asked for my PCC (which I've already given) but I'm just preparing just in case they ask for more proof about intent to return.

We have given them a copy of my husband's contract that shows the end date (July 2021), plan on how we are going to establish ourselves in Canada, support from his parents (accommodation, transpo, food, bills, etc), personal ties of my husband to Canada (bank statements, driver's license), bank account statements to show that we can support ourselves while looking for a job, a personal letter of intent from my husband and the apartment lease we sent them is supposed to end in a couple of months.

I'm worried but I hope I sent sufficient evidence.
 
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armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,142
8,797
I understand, they've asked for my PCC (which I've already given) but I'm just preparing just in case they ask for more proof about intent to return.
...
I'm worried but I hope I sent sufficient evidence.
It is hard to say what specifically they consider sufficient. They seem more consistently recently to be asking for more information - possibly due to some offices being used to manage load, perhaps it's a new policy. The impression from requests for more information is that it is a standard form letter, i.e. they are not tailoring to what has already been submitted (and possible that they have not done extensive review of the initial submission).

All I can suggest is continue to collect more evidence to have something 'new' to submit (i.e. to show preps to move have continued) and to also be prepared to list and draw attention to what was already provided (eg possibly a short letter/list) or even repeat some items.

Good luck.
 

constance23

Star Member
Sep 21, 2018
76
31
It is hard to say what specifically they consider sufficient. They seem more consistently recently to be asking for more information - possibly due to some offices being used to manage load, perhaps it's a new policy. The impression from requests for more information is that it is a standard form letter, i.e. they are not tailoring to what has already been submitted (and possible that they have not done extensive review of the initial submission).

All I can suggest is continue to collect more evidence to have something 'new' to submit (i.e. to show preps to move have continued) and to also be prepared to list and draw attention to what was already provided (eg possibly a short letter/list) or even repeat some items.

Good luck.
I thought so... If they ask for more info, I am ready to provide more proof and to repeat some important documents such as the contract that'll end in two months, the apartment lease that'll end in three months, recent conversations we've had with his parents about this quarantine and the transition plan we have at work that shows the people that are taking over our positions. We also told them we're selling all our things before we leave and we're only taking personal items and clothing.

I also included a table of contents that shows everything I included in our file so it's easy for them to confirm and verify.

The letter for additional info was indeed in a standard letter form and I keep reviewing it, I'm 1000% sure they only requested PCC (I submitted the wrong one in the initial application).

I've done my medical, biometrics and submitted the PCC they were asking for, so I'm sure that if they ask for more info it'll be in the coming weeks/months. Hopefully they are satisfied and give us our approval.

Thank you @armoured! :) Always good to talk to someone who knows.
 
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constance23

Star Member
Sep 21, 2018
76
31
It is hard to say what specifically they consider sufficient. They seem more consistently recently to be asking for more information - possibly due to some offices being used to manage load, perhaps it's a new policy. The impression from requests for more information is that it is a standard form letter, i.e. they are not tailoring to what has already been submitted (and possible that they have not done extensive review of the initial submission).

All I can suggest is continue to collect more evidence to have something 'new' to submit (i.e. to show preps to move have continued) and to also be prepared to list and draw attention to what was already provided (eg possibly a short letter/list) or even repeat some items.

Good luck.
One more thing (I'm sorry ) @armoured,

I submitted my PCC and my status for Review of Additional Documents says "We have received the additional documents you provided."

Will this change to review? Or is this standard for PCC?

I received a ghost update last week and my ass hasn't been calm since then.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,142
8,797
One more thing (I'm sorry ) @armoured,

I submitted my PCC and my status for Review of Additional Documents says "We have received the additional documents you provided."

Will this change to review? Or is this standard for PCC?

I received a ghost update last week and my ass hasn't been calm since then.
I don't know but I think that's standard.
 
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Phalos

Champion Member
Jun 19, 2020
2,564
1,291
I realize now that ircc does not discriminate per se, but they only approve files that fit a certain naarative. They do not approach files from a personal individual unique case view.
That is why a well informed scammer can easily beat the system by satisfying all the points ircc looks for in a "genuine" marriage.
Unfortunately this is life and in real life many genuine marriages get rejected becuz of their unique circumstances that do not follow every single point in ircc manuals.
 
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canadianexpat93

Star Member
Apr 8, 2021
138
86
One more thing (I'm sorry ) @armoured,

I submitted my PCC and my status for Review of Additional Documents says "We have received the additional documents you provided."

Will this change to review? Or is this standard for PCC?

I received a ghost update last week and my ass hasn't been calm since then.
I was wondering the same as we had additional documents request for PCC and that line hasn’t changed at all since April when they received it...
 

Phalos

Champion Member
Jun 19, 2020
2,564
1,291
Thanks everyone for the kind replies and very insightful information. I think we will now do the inland route so this means we will have to enter Canada before her passport/visa expires on May 2022. Does anyone know how long after I get in Canada I should apply for her PR? Should I find a job in before actually going back or look for one once I'm there? How about for her: I hear she can get an open work permit after a few months, what are the requirements for this? And what actually would be the differences of getting the work permit and working vs getting the PR? Like free healthcare and what else? I need to really think about all the angles as she will be giving up a big job and so will I in Thailand to come back to Canada.

I am also thinking of emailing Singapore for one last chance and actually showing them a job offer and place to reside in Canada which I will start working on, do you think then they could reverse the decision or is it a lost cause once they made the decision?

Again, appreciate it greatly that people reply and add value here. I'm very grateful.

Regards
yes you can ask for "reconsideration". quickly.
 

constance23

Star Member
Sep 21, 2018
76
31
I was wondering the same as we had additional documents request for PCC and that line hasn’t changed at all since April when they received it...
What's your status in the Review of Additional Documents?

Mine says "We have received the additional documents you provided." And they emailed me saying they have received it.

Maybe you should ask through webform?