Leaving Canada Temporarily while spouse's PR (outland) is in progress Sponser being PR and sponsorship eligibility is Approved

[k.h.p.]

Oh now you are the HR for IRCC call center? Congrats! do IRCC agents get RRSPs?

Yes right I am teleporting between Canada and North Korea. So IRCC will not about my travel ever!

do you think the call centre agents at IRCC are visa officers?

 

[armoured]

but remember calls to IRCC are legally recorded as intimated.

Have you ever found a case where a recorded call to the IRCC call centre was presented to an IAD hearing as evidence in favour of the applicant?

 

[yourfather]

Have you ever found a case where a recorded call to the IRCC call centre was presented to an IAD hearing as evidence in favour of the applicant?

Well you must know how the legal system works in Canada, if not then please do not bother reading any further. But if you do then take the time to read the below, you are sure to be enlighten.

Recently I filed a lawsuit against my car insurance firm. I called them back in Oct 2020 and asked them to turn off my insurance, they confirm over phone that it was done and never turned it off. I was charged to a bank account that didn't have enough funds and eventually ended up with a huge pile of penalty. When I called them back stating I got confirmation over phone about the cancellation last Oct, as usual some half-baked manager said its not possible to take phone calls as evidence. The IVR system did prompt me that the 'call was recorded for quality control and training purpose'. So I quoted the call as reference, along with my phone records in my lawsuit. Now it is the defendant's responsibility to furnish the recorded call and so they did. All the penalty were squashed, my insurance was reinstated at no additional cost and my legal fees were paid by them as well. Its on canlii as well, I can PM you the docket#.

The same goes for body cams on Police, its their responsibility to make sure the footage is presented else the plaintiff will be favored. A common man like me neither has to record calls nor intimate about call recordings. I just have to make sure I have my phone records that show the call was made. RECORDED PHONE CALLS ARE LEGAL DOCUMENTS, please see below

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_call_recording_laws

I have plenty of evidence to prove phone records are indeed a legal document. But with regards to IRCC call center, I was able to find the below. If I waste more time, I am sure I could find more cases. But I believe this should prove the point about calls to IRCC and recordings.

https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2020/2020fc364/2020fc364.html - Points 9,10,42,43

The below plaintiff claims to have called IRCC on his own affirmation (42) and justifies that he acted as per the instructions given by IRCC agents. He did not produce any evidence regarding the call and to whom he spoke to + IRCC call center does not offer passport assistance. But in my case its a PR application and I have my Canadian phone provider's bill copy showing the exact date/time/duration of the call + I take the first name of the agent and address them by the same.

In my opinion the below plaintiff has tried to sell the same BS as you folks are trying to sell here for ages i.e., IRCC call center are clueless, phone calls are not legal and getting advice from them is useless. Keep in mind IRCC agents even have the power to expedite your application, if you fall under the required grounds. My PR application was stuck for no good reason and I called IRCC and PPR was issued the same day afternoon. As per your hypothesis if phone calls aren't any significant then why does the AGC instruct IRCC to record all calls?

I deeply request anyone not bad mouth IRCC call center, at least they are not 'anonymous' and IRCC does intimate that "all calls including hold time is recorded to ensure call quality and to serve as a record of information"

[9] The parties disagree on the facts leading to the contents of the April 2018 Passport Application and on the events of April 25, 2018. Mr. Alsaloussi claims to have answered the application form the way he did because of instructions provided to him over the phone by the representatives of the IRCC’s Client Support Service Centre [IRCC Centre], to whom he had allegedly explained the correction recently made to his name. Furthermore, Mr. Alsaloussi asserts that he confirmed with an IRCC representative that he could keep Passport HM804068, which he held at the time of the April 2018 Passport Application. He wished to keep this passport because it contained an expensive visa for travelling to Saudi Arabia. Mr. Alsaloussi further maintains that he had brought Passport HM804068 with him to the London passport office when he presented his April 2018 Passport Application, and was then advised by a passport officer that he could keep it.


[10] The Attorney General of Canada [AGC] asserts that none of the information that Mr. Alsaloussi claims to have received from the Canadian passport authorities are in line with the policies and procedures of the Passport Program. There is no record of Mr. Alsaloussi having presented Passport HM804068 at the time of his April 2018 Passport Application. The AGC further notes that the IRCC Centre is required to record the incoming phone calls, and that there was no trace of a call made by Mr. Alsaloussi around April 2018. In addition, the AGC observes that the IRCC Centre does not provide any assistance for passport applications, as this assistance is specifically provided by the Passport Program’s separate call centre.


[42] Similarly, besides Mr. Alsaloussi’s own affirmation, no other evidence established that IRCC representatives instructed Mr. Alsaloussi to leave the “Former Surname (last name)” field blank in his passport application and to respond in the negative to the question on Canadian travel documents previously issued to him. In fact, the evidence from the IRCC Centre reveals no record of Mr. Alsaloussi contacting their office in 2018 and indicates that the Centre does not provide assistance with passport applications. Furthermore, Mr. Alsaloussi’s statements on his exchanges with the IRCC Centre reflect instructions and behaviour that run contrary to the policies and procedures of the Passport Program. As explained in the Decision, the Passport Program’s records are completely silent on all of the communications that Mr. Alsaloussi claims to have had with IRCC representatives regarding his passport application.


[43] I further note that Mr. Alsaloussi’s allegations regarding his discussions with the IRCC Centre are vague and not substantiated. He did not identify anyone who gave him the advice he claims to have received and did not provide any evidence or details in support of his allegations. Considering that all the evidence supporting Mr. Alsaloussi’s claim that any false or misleading information contained in his April 2018 Passport Application resulted from errors made by IRCC representatives or passport officers is again limited to his own statements, I find that it was reasonable for the Decision-Maker to conclude that it was not “more likely than not, on a balance of probabilities test, that two different employees would forget to apply the strict training they received while processing the application”.

 

[k.h.p.]

Well you must know how the legal system works in Canada, if not then please do not bother reading any further. But if you do then take the time to read the below, you are sure to be enlighten.

Recently I filed a lawsuit against my car insurance firm. I called them back in Oct 2020 and asked them to turn off my insurance, they confirm over phone that it was done and never turned it off. I was charged to a bank account that didn't have enough funds and eventually ended up with a huge pile of penalty. When I called them back stating I got confirmation over phone about the cancellation last Oct, as usual some half-baked manager said its not possible to take phone calls as evidence. The IVR system did prompt me that the 'call was recorded for quality control and training purpose'. So I quoted the call as reference, along with my phone records in my lawsuit. Now it is the defendant's responsibility to furnish the recorded call and so they did. All the penalty were squashed, my insurance was reinstated at no additional cost and my legal fees were paid by them as well. Its on canlii as well, I can PM you the docket#.

The same goes for body cams on Police, its their responsibility to make sure the footage is presented else the plaintiff will be favored. A common man like me neither has to record calls nor intimate about call recordings. I just have to make sure I have my phone records that show the call was made. RECORDED PHONE CALLS ARE LEGAL DOCUMENTS, please see below

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_call_recording_laws

I have plenty of evidence to prove phone records are indeed a legal document. But with regards to IRCC call center, I was able to find the below. If I waste more time, I am sure I could find more cases. But I believe this should prove the point about calls to IRCC and recordings.

https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2020/2020fc364/2020fc364.html - Points 9,10,42,43

The below plaintiff claims to have called IRCC on his own affirmation (42) and justifies that he acted as per the instructions given by IRCC agents. He did not produce any evidence regarding the call and to whom he spoke to + IRCC call center does not offer passport assistance. But in my case its a PR application and I have my Canadian phone provider's bill copy showing the exact date/time/duration of the call + I take the first name of the agent and address them by the same.

In my opinion the below plaintiff has tried to sell the same BS as you folks are trying to sell here for ages i.e., IRCC call center are clueless, phone calls are not legal and getting advice from them is useless. Keep in mind IRCC agents even have the power to expedite your application, if you fall under the required grounds. My PR application was stuck for no good reason and I called IRCC and PPR was issued the same day afternoon. As per your hypothesis if phone calls aren't any significant then why does the AGC instruct IRCC to record all calls?

I deeply request anyone not bad mouth IRCC call center, at least they are not 'anonymous'


[9] The parties disagree on the facts leading to the contents of the April 2018 Passport Application and on the events of April 25, 2018. Mr. Alsaloussi claims to have answered the application form the way he did because of instructions provided to him over the phone by the representatives of the IRCC’s Client Support Service Centre [IRCC Centre], to whom he had allegedly explained the correction recently made to his name. Furthermore, Mr. Alsaloussi asserts that he confirmed with an IRCC representative that he could keep Passport HM804068, which he held at the time of the April 2018 Passport Application. He wished to keep this passport because it contained an expensive visa for travelling to Saudi Arabia. Mr. Alsaloussi further maintains that he had brought Passport HM804068 with him to the London passport office when he presented his April 2018 Passport Application, and was then advised by a passport officer that he could keep it.


[10] The Attorney General of Canada [AGC] asserts that none of the information that Mr. Alsaloussi claims to have received from the Canadian passport authorities are in line with the policies and procedures of the Passport Program. There is no record of Mr. Alsaloussi having presented Passport HM804068 at the time of his April 2018 Passport Application. The AGC further notes that the IRCC Centre is required to record the incoming phone calls, and that there was no trace of a call made by Mr. Alsaloussi around April 2018. In addition, the AGC observes that the IRCC Centre does not provide any assistance for passport applications, as this assistance is specifically provided by the Passport Program’s separate call centre.


[42] Similarly, besides Mr. Alsaloussi’s own affirmation, no other evidence established that IRCC representatives instructed Mr. Alsaloussi to leave the “Former Surname (last name)” field blank in his passport application and to respond in the negative to the question on Canadian travel documents previously issued to him. In fact, the evidence from the IRCC Centre reveals no record of Mr. Alsaloussi contacting their office in 2018 and indicates that the Centre does not provide assistance with passport applications. Furthermore, Mr. Alsaloussi’s statements on his exchanges with the IRCC Centre reflect instructions and behaviour that run contrary to the policies and procedures of the Passport Program. As explained in the Decision, the Passport Program’s records are completely silent on all of the communications that Mr. Alsaloussi claims to have had with IRCC representatives regarding his passport application.


[43] I further note that Mr. Alsaloussi’s allegations regarding his discussions with the IRCC Centre are vague and not substantiated. He did not identify anyone who gave him the advice he claims to have received and did not provide any evidence or details in support of his allegations. Considering that all the evidence supporting Mr. Alsaloussi’s claim that any false or misleading information contained in his April 2018 Passport Application resulted from errors made by IRCC representatives or passport officers is again limited to his own statements, I find that it was reasonable for the Decision-Maker to conclude that it was not “more likely than not, on a balance of probabilities test, that two different employees would forget to apply the strict training they received while processing the application”.

You've cited a decision, in support of your argument that one can rely on IRCC call centre in appeals, where that argument is dismissed at appeal. Further, despite your insistence that you can demand that IRCC produce recordings of a call, the decision you quote does not give any evidence of IRCC retaining the call record, recording, or producing it.

In fact, the judgment you cite says that IRCC couldn't find any evidence of Mr. Alsaloussi calling IRCC. Mr. Alsaloussi's experience, in calling IRCC and getting conflicting instructions, is what we see on these forums hundreds of times a year, despite IRCC's insistence it would not ever happen and the "strict training" that the original decision maker could not reasonably see happening at IRCC.

I honestly hope your application continues safely and that everything works out, but it doesn't change the fact that you're inventing your own test for whether or not it's okay to leave Canada and basically insisting through the force of your own will that it'll work. Chances are it will, but just not for the reasons you think. (Mostly because IRCC is underfunded and can't chase down infractions of eligibility requirements that are not really substantial, though it often does in very unfortunate and even cruel ways)

 

[yourfather]

You've cited a decision, in support of your argument that one can rely on IRCC call centre in appeals, where that argument is dismissed at appeal. Further, despite your insistence that you can demand that IRCC produce recordings of a call, the decision you quote does not give any evidence of IRCC retaining the call record, recording, or producing it.

In fact, the judgment you cite says that IRCC couldn't find any evidence of Mr. Alsaloussi calling IRCC. Mr. Alsaloussi's experience, in calling IRCC and getting conflicting instructions, is what we see on these forums hundreds of times a year, despite IRCC's insistence it would not ever happen and the "strict training" that the original decision maker could not reasonably see happening at IRCC.

I honestly hope your application continues safely and that everything works out, but it doesn't change the fact that you're inventing your own test for whether or not it's okay to leave Canada and basically insisting through the force of your own will that it'll work. Chances are it will, but just not for the reasons you think. (Mostly because IRCC is underfunded and can't chase down infractions of eligibility requirements that are not really substantial, though it often does in very unfortunate and even cruel ways)

Please read the article once again. Check the highlights on Points 42 and 43, Plaintiff only claims to have called IRCC but never produced any evidence for calling IRCC like phone records or name of the agent. IRCC never found the recording because chances are that he never called in the first place.

In my case I have detailed phone records from a Canadian phone company with date/time/duration of the call to IRCC + the agent's first name.

Its not the outcome of the case that is important, but to point out how significant are the calls made to IRCC. Those calls don't just vanish in thin air like how it is being portrayed here.

Once again staying outside Canada for a few months during sponsorship does not count as an infraction on eligibility or a violation, deeply requesting you not to use such words. These words just create a panic in the minds of the needy.

 

[sreekar545]

This is not a criminal case here. If they reject as you guys are saying - it's like this - you and your wife are eligible for this PR but I will make you apply again because you went outside for whatever duration. I do that, because I "can", no other reason... Now start again and we will probably approve. Fuck you for not being a Canadian citizen (which you will become anyway by the time your next application gets approved).

I went through canlii cases and they are all very weird cases where sponsor never actually lived in Canada or applied and simply left for a year or more. In fact I have never seen IRCC being the bad guy even once on this forum (rejecting for silly reasons). They usually accommodate a lot of people lot of times. But you guys are projecting them as if they are here finding reasons how to reject applications.

Chill guys.

 

[k.h.p.]

Once again staying outside Canada for a few months during sponsorship does not count as an infraction on eligibility or a violation, deeply requesting you not to use such words. These words just create a panic in the minds of the needy.

Do not state things that IRCC does not say so categorically. You are stating something, without regulatory/documentary proof and only absence of proof to the contrary, that could cause life-changing errors to someone else.

You're free to take your own risks. Don't tell other people it's absolutely not a risk with the weight of absolutely nothing.

 

[sreekar545]

There are no CanLII cases for inland applications where an appeal is launched because of not being in Canada because inland applications cannot be appealed. They can only be judicially reviewed, and for a judicial review to go anywhere, you need to convince a judge that there was an error in the application of the law, and judges tend to side with the decision maker where decision is delegated unless there is proof of a palpable and overriding error that made the decision unreasonable.

Unreasonable is a special word - it doesn't just mean "an unfortunate decision," it means a decision that a reasonable person would not have arrived at with the evidence before the decision maker.

So searching CanLII for inland sponsorship eligibility appeals based on being in Canada is likely to be challenging...you'll find some applications in the Federal Court for review, but not many.

We were and are talking about outland.

 

[k.h.p.]

We were and are talking about outland.

Fair point.

 

[yourfather]

Do not state things that IRCC does not say so categorically. You are stating something, without regulatory/documentary proof and only absence of proof to the contrary, that could cause life-changing errors to someone else.

You're free to take your own risks. Don't tell other people it's absolutely not a risk with the weight of absolutely nothing.

Ok the same way IRCC does not say categorically that a 2-3 month travel will be violation, as you and your team is trying to prove the whole time.

And all I am trying to do here is to make sure people in need don't take phony advices from anonymous keyboard warriors, instead get in touch with IRCC or reach out to licensed personnel. They have better avenues to decide than reading advices like the one below

2-3 months is too long to be outside of Canada as a PR while sponsoring a spouse. It may create a question in IRCC's mind if you are still resident in Canada, which would cause a rejection of the sponsorship.

Would suggest you limit the trip to a couple of weeks.

This is your 1st response to this thread. Do you have any evidence for your statement above?

I say your comment is baseless, people who read this BS are mislead and lose the opportunity to spend valuable time with their loved ones + scared to even travel for a family emergency. Anonymous keyboard warriors never understand the emotional trauma that we undergo rather team up and push their own stupid ideology. Keep going..

 

[Nitin Gaur]

Folks, I called IRCC with the same question if Sponsor can Visit spouse for 2 to 3 months and if there is any affect on spouse PR application in process!
They said its okey to be away from canada temporarily as long as your main living is still canada! It would only be a prob if sponsor takes long term job or settle outside canada for a longer duration and visits to canada being temporary!

Hi Garuda, Hope you guys are reunited now and living in Canada. I am in a similar situation as was yours. Can you share what happened and for how many days you managed to stay outside Canada. Did you face any further problems later on?

 

[k.h.p.]

Ok the same way IRCC does not say categorically that a 2-3 month travel will be violation, as you and your team is trying to prove the whole time.

And all I am trying to do here is to make sure people in need don't take phony advices from anonymous keyboard warriors, instead get in touch with IRCC or reach out to licensed personnel. They have better avenues to decide than reading advices like the one below



This is your 1st response to this thread. Do you have any evidence for your statement above?

I say your comment is baseless, people who read this BS are mislead and lose the opportunity to spend valuable time with their loved ones + scared to even travel for a family emergency. Anonymous keyboard warriors never understand the emotional trauma that we undergo rather team up and push their own stupid ideology. Keep going..

There are rejections that I've personally seen. There are at least 65 that are appeals to IAD and FC; likely dozens more where lawyers advised people that the cost of the appeal wouldn't be worth it.

Please continue advising people to risk their applications if you feel that's best.

 

[zakaria666]

Ok the same way IRCC does not say categorically that a 2-3 month travel will be violation, as you and your team is trying to prove the whole time.

And all I am trying to do here is to make sure people in need don't take phony advices from anonymous keyboard warriors, instead get in touch with IRCC or reach out to licensed personnel. They have better avenues to decide than reading advices like the one below



This is your 1st response to this thread. Do you have any evidence for your statement above?

I say your comment is baseless, people who read this BS are mislead and lose the opportunity to spend valuable time with their loved ones + scared to even travel for a family emergency. Anonymous keyboard warriors never understand the emotional trauma that we undergo rather team up and push their own stupid ideology. Keep going..

I made an account to thank you for your time and doing your research. I was worried but reading your comments and research has put my mind as ease

 

[canuck78]

I made an account to thank you for your time and doing your research. I was worried but reading your comments and research has put my mind as ease

This research is not based on facts. IRCC is not going to advise you that you can leave Canada while your application is being processed and neither will an immigration lawyer. The instructions clearly say that PRs must be in Canada to apply to sponsor their family. Sure some people have gotten away with it but there have been others who have had their applications refused.

 

[Rapsy]

Hi Folks, I am PR of Canada, sponsored my spouse for PR now planning to visit my spouse for 2 to 3 months whilst
spouse's PR (outland) is in progress
Will there be any adverse effect on the PR application?
Sponser Eligibility is approved
Med and bio done!
Been 6+months in the process
TRV of spouse was rejected twice so there is no hope of her travelling to Canada

Hey did you leave the country? Were there any consequences? Would really appreciate your reply.