Does it matter whether you had income during the last 3 years or not?

[AlexandraO]

Hi,

Does it matter whether you had income during the last 3 years or not?
is it ok for citizenship that for last 3 years you were working only 1 year?
does it matter just to file the tax return?

thank you
Sasha

 

[RJ2020]

Hi,

Does it matter whether you had income during the last 3 years or not?
is it ok for citizenship that for last 3 years you were working only 1 year?
does it matter just to file the tax return?

thank you
Sasha

Whether you had income during your eligibility period or not does not matter. You must have filed your tax returns for at least 3 out 5 years during your eligibility period in addition to other important requirements such as RO requirements, language proof etc.

 

[dpenabill]

Hi,

Does it matter whether you had income during the last 3 years or not?
is it ok for citizenship that for last 3 years you were working only 1 year?
does it matter just to file the tax return?

Employment history matters. But employment is NOT required.

For the vast majority of applicants, NO PROBLEM . . . that is, no problem UNLESS something else triggers questions and concerns.

So, odds are high you have no cause to worry.

But it is misleading, if not overtly erroneous, to categorically dismiss the importance the applicant's employment history MIGHT have.

Leading . . . at the risk of going more into the weeds than most need . . . leading to . . .

Whether you had income during your eligibility period or not does not matter. You must have filed your tax returns for at least 3 out 5 years during your eligibility period in addition to other important requirements such as RO requirements, language proof etc.

Of course it "matters." How so is the question.

There is no employment, income, or other financial requirement to be eligible for a grant of citizenship (other than paying application and processing fees). So, a person with no income, or no employment, can nonetheless meet the requirements for citizenship.

But employment history is a significant, perhaps rather big factor, in the information IRCC considers in its assessment of the individual's eligibility for citizenship, especially in regards to corroborating and verifying the individual's accounting of days physically present in Canada. Thus, the application form not only requires applicants to give employment history information (which can include periods of unemployment), but if there are any gaps in the information, that will trigger the application being deemed incomplete, resulting in it being returned to the applicant without being processed. (A period of unemployment is not a "gap" so long as the applicant truthfully declares this in the employment history section of the application.)

It warrants noting that in general it can be said that if IRCC asks for the information, it matters. Make no mistake, IRCC asks the applicant to provide a true AND COMPLETE accounting of employment history for the full five year "eligibility period," including periods of unemployment, attending school, or being a stay-at-home parent.


TAX FILING OBLIGATION:

It is NOT correct that the applicant for citizenship "must have filed . . . tax returns for at least 3 out 5 years during your eligibility period."

Most qualified citizenship applicants will, ordinarily, have been obligated to file tax returns and most will have indeed filed a return for at least three of the relevant five tax years (which are similar to but NOT the same as the five year eligibility period). But depending on individual factual circumstances, it is entirely possible, for example, for an individual to satisfy the tax filing compliance requirement without ever having filed any Canadian tax return at all.

The tax related eligibility requirement is based on having complied with the individual's tax filing obligations for at least three of the five TAX years preceding the YEAR in which the application is made. An individual can meet the tax filing obligation for any given year despite NOT having filed any return if the individual is not required to file a return for that year. Such years count toward the three years of compliance. Thus, some individuals can qualify for citizenship even if they have never filed a Canadian tax return.

Which years an individual must file a tax return is governed by CRA rules, NOT IRCC rules. Contrary to some claims in this forum, just being a resident of Canada during a tax year does not necessarily mean the individual is required (under CRA rules) to file a tax return for that year . . . noting, though, it is nonetheless, usually, to the individual's benefit to file a return even if not required to do so.

Again, any TAX year in which the individual is not required to file a return counts, toward the three needed, as a year of compliance with the tax filing obligation. Thus, for an individual who had no income for three of the relevant TAX years, and who otherwise was not obligated to file a return, that individual can meet the tax filing compliance requirement for citizenship without ever having filed any Canadian tax returns.

Generally I urge anyone with questions about which years they were obligated to file a tax return to consult the CRA website "Do you have to file a return" at https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/about-your-tax-return/you-have-file-a-return.html or the website specifically describing tax obligations for "Newcomers to Canada (immigrants and returning residents) at https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/individuals-leaving-entering-canada-non-residents/newcomers-canada-immigrants.html#dhtf . . . and based on the information there it is usually fairly easy to figure out what years the individual is obligated to file a return.

In very general terms . . . with the caveat that individuals absolutely should do the homework necessary to determine for themselves, based on their understanding of the rules (see websites linked above) as applied to their specific factual situations, whether or not they are obligated to file a return . . . further caveat: if in doubt, file a return . . .

. . . again, in very general terms, usually but not always . . .

-- an individual who is NOT RESIDENT in Canada at all during a tax year AND who has NO Canadian source income for that year, is (usually) NOT required to file a Canadian tax return for that year​

​

-- an individual who is a RESIDENT in Canada during a tax year who has ANY income (referred to as "worldwide income") will usually be required to file a Canadian tax return for that year​

​

-- an individual with NO income (such as someone being supported by another person or who lives off savings without any interest or other income) quite likely is NOT required to file a Canadian tax return, whether a resident of Canada or not, noting however that for a resident it is usually beneficial to file a return even if not required to do so​

Note: there is a difference between being a "resident for tax" purposes and being a resident who is required to file a tax return. There is also a difference between being obligated to file a return, under the CRA rules, and being obligated to pay tax on income. For most, sorting this stuff out is not complicated, but again this is governed by CRA not IRCC. For some, yeah, it can be more complicated, and even get very complicated. The latter need the assistance of qualified accounting services to sort these things out.


FINALLY . . . HOW it MATTERS . . .

For the vast majority of qualified applicants who truthfully and completely provide the information and documents requested in the application form, the physical presence calculation, and document checklist, and who have a decent margin of physical presence above the minimum, the process is ROUTINE, no problems (other than collateral problems, like delays and difficulties arising in relation to the Covid-19 pandemic).

If, however, the processing agent or Citizenship Officer perceives any reason to more closely examine the applicant as to actual physical presence, the applicant's employment history can be and quite likely will be reviewed more thoroughly. Obviously, an applicant who was, say, regularly employed in a manufacturing facility where the applicant punched a clock and was required to be on the job most days of the week for all but two or six weeks of the year, in the employ of a business readily recognized as such, that tends to be strong evidence corroborating the individual's actual physical presence. At the other end of the spectrum, the work history information for those who are self-employed, unemployed, or engaged as "consultants," for large periods of time, might not be such strong corroborating evidence. How these affect a particular individual's application processing will vary considerably depending on how strong the individual's case is otherwise.

 

[RJ2020]

Of course it "matters." How so is the question.

There is no employment, income, or other financial requirement to be eligible for a grant of citizenship (other than paying application and processing fees). So, a person with no income, or no employment, can nonetheless meet the requirements for citizenship.

But employment history is a significant, perhaps rather big factor, in the information IRCC considers in its assessment of the individual's eligibility for citizenship, especially in regards to corroborating and verifying the individual's accounting of days physically present in Canada. Thus, the application form not only requires applicants to give employment history information (which can include periods of unemployment), but if there are any gaps in the information, that will trigger the application being deemed incomplete, resulting in it being returned to the applicant without being processed. (A period of unemployment is not a "gap" so long as the applicant truthfully declares this in the employment history section of the application.)

It warrants noting that in general it can be said that if IRCC asks for the information, it matters. Make no mistake, IRCC asks the applicant to provide a true AND COMPLETE accounting of employment history for the full five year "eligibility period," including periods of unemployment, attending school, or being a stay-at-home parent.


TAX FILING OBLIGATION:

It is NOT correct that the applicant for citizenship "must have filed . . . tax returns for at least 3 out 5 years during your eligibility period."

Most qualified citizenship applicants will, ordinarily, have been obligated to file tax returns and most will have indeed filed a return for at least three of the relevant five tax years (which are similar to but NOT the same as the five year eligibility period). But depending on individual factual circumstances, it is entirely possible, for example, for an individual to satisfy the tax filing compliance requirement without ever having filed any Canadian tax return at all.

The tax related eligibility requirement is based on having complied with the individual's tax filing obligations for at least three of the five TAX years preceding the YEAR in which the application is made. An individual can meet the tax filing obligation for any given year despite NOT having filed any return if the individual is not required to file a return for that year. Such years count toward the three years of compliance. Thus, some individuals can qualify for citizenship even if they have never filed a Canadian tax return.

Which years an individual must file a tax return is governed by CRA rules, NOT IRCC rules. Contrary to some claims in this forum, just being a resident of Canada during a tax year does not necessarily mean the individual is required (under CRA rules) to file a tax return for that year . . . noting, though, it is nonetheless, usually, to the individual's benefit to file a return even if not required to do so.

Again, any TAX year in which the individual is not required to file a return counts, toward the three needed, as a year of compliance with the tax filing obligation. Thus, for an individual who had no income for three of the relevant TAX years, and who otherwise was not obligated to file a return, that individual can meet the tax filing compliance requirement for citizenship without ever having filed any Canadian tax returns.

Generally I urge anyone with questions about which years they were obligated to file a tax return to consult the CRA website "Do you have to file a return" at https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/about-your-tax-return/you-have-file-a-return.html or the website specifically describing tax obligations for "Newcomers to Canada (immigrants and returning residents) at https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/individuals-leaving-entering-canada-non-residents/newcomers-canada-immigrants.html#dhtf . . . and based on the information there it is usually fairly easy to figure out what years the individual is obligated to file a return.

In very general terms . . . with the caveat that individuals absolutely should do the homework necessary to determine for themselves, based on their understanding of the rules (see websites linked above) as applied to their specific factual situations, whether or not they are obligated to file a return . . . further caveat: if in doubt, file a return . . .

. . . again, in very general terms, usually but not always . . .

-- an individual who is NOT RESIDENT in Canada at all during a tax year AND who has NO Canadian source income for that year, is (usually) NOT required to file a Canadian tax return for that year​

​

-- an individual who is a RESIDENT in Canada during a tax year who has ANY income (referred to as "worldwide income") will usually be required to file a Canadian tax return for that year​

​

-- an individual with NO income (such as someone being supported by another person or who lives off savings without any interest or other income) quite likely is NOT required to file a Canadian tax return, whether a resident of Canada or not, noting however that for a resident it is usually beneficial to file a return even if not required to do so​

Note: there is a difference between being a "resident for tax" purposes and being a resident who is required to file a tax return. There is also a difference between being obligated to file a return, under the CRA rules, and being obligated to pay tax on income. For most, sorting this stuff out is not complicated, but again this is governed by CRA not IRCC. For some, yeah, it can be more complicated, and even get very complicated. The latter need the assistance of qualified accounting services to sort these things out.

First of all, with all respects, I think you misunderstood my answer.

As I mentioned before, whether the applicants had income or were employed or not, does not matter. Better to say:

Employment or whether the applicants had income during their eligibility period or not does not matter here. Declaring your employment/unemployment history honestly in both tax returns( if required to file tax return under the Income Tax Act) and the citizenship application form is what matters here.

There is no requirement like the applicants must have worked during their eligibility period. There is no requirement like the applicants should have had income during their eligibility period. Applicants need to file their tax returns(if required) honestly over their eligibility period. That's what matters related to tax. So, if the applicants had income, of course they have declared it in their tax returns frankly. If they did not have income, of course they have declared it candidly in their tax returns(if required to file their tax rerurn)

So, if applicants were unemployed during their eligibility period, and filed their tax returns(if required) truly, with even 0 income, it does not affect their application, and of course what we say is about all cases generally, and it's not case-specific. The situation for all applicants can be different.

Needless to say, if an officer needs the applicants to prove their presence in Canada, employment is one of the ways. Being at school/university is another way and there are many other ways. It does not mean that the employment or being at school during their eligibility period is mandatory. That's all I'm trying to say! and that's all the poster asked in this forum.

I personally hold the belief that referring to IRCC website is always the best way to understand all requirements clearly.

Check “Yes” to authorize the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) to provide details of your tax filing information (including income, benefit and residence information) to IRCC.


By checking “Yes” you’re also authorizing us to collect your tax filing information from the CRA to help

• determine if you meet the income tax and physical presence requirements for citizenship
• examine your tax information in activities to support quality assurance and integrity in the citizenship program

Subsection 8(1) of the Privacy Act and paragraph 241(5)(b) of the Income Tax Act allows the CRA to provide personal information to IRCC, with the consent of the relevant individuals. This consent is required under paragraph 2(1)(e) of the Citizenship Regulations, No. 2.

Regarding this part:

TAX FILING OBLIGATION:

It is NOT correct that the applicant for citizenship "must have filed . . . tax returns for at least 3 out 5 years during your eligibility period."

You have to file Canadian income taxes (if required to do so under the Income Tax Act) for 3 out of 5 years, matching the new physical presence requirement.

source: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/act-changes/requirements-2017-2018.html

Of course you're correct! However, you're talking about something that is crystal clear. Of course if the applicant does not need to file taxes under the Income Tax Act, does not need to file tax returns during their eligibility period! We can't explain everything in a single thread, and I don't think the poster had any question regarding this matter.

All in all, I believe we're talking about the same things! Actually, I believe that you said exactly the same thing as I said in the last thread and here.

 

[dpenabill]

All in all, I believe we're talking about the same things! Actually, I believe that you said exactly the same thing as I said in the last thread and here.

I assume you were trying to be helpful. And I acknowledge I could and should try to be more tactful when addressing misstatements or such. I am sorry the manner in which I addressed this was abrasive.

That said, perhaps what you meant was the same as what I posted, but make no mistake what you said was not the same. And was not correct. In particular, it warrants noting, this forum is rife with overgeneralizations and misstatements, leading to what it is you actually said, which was very similar to what is said over and over again here, erroneously so.

In particular . . .

You said: "Whether you had income during your eligibility period or not does not matter."

That is NOT correct. It can and sometimes does matter. It can definitely matter in terms of who is obligated to file a tax return.

You said: "You must have filed your tax returns for at least 3 out 5 years during your eligibility period in addition to other important requirements such as RO requirements, language proof etc. "

This too is NOT correct. Again, the requirement is to have complied with CRA rules for at least three of the five preceding tax years.

Somewhat ironically, many citizenship applicants making an application between now and the end of April could meet the qualifications without filing a tax return for even two let alone three years, noting that between now and the end of April almost everyone gets credit for 2020 counting as one of the three years in compliance. This is because almost no one is "required" to have filed a return for 2020 yet (no CRA requirement to file in effect until April 30, or later for many) . . . so for 2020 they can check [No, No] (that is, no, not required to file, and no did not file), and that counts as one of the three years in compliance. Indeed, a PR who landed in early January 2018, who had no Canadian ties before landing, and who stayed in Canada without traveling abroad since, could qualify for citizenship, and this would include meeting the tax filing compliance requirement EVEN if they have filed NO tax returns, EVEN if they were employed and required to file a tax return for 2018 and 2019 but did not. Not recommended, no where near recommended. The latter tending to illuminate what can really MATTER apart from what is required.​

Unfortunately overgeneralizations tend to invite or cause confusion and can make questions more complicated than necessary. And these two erroneous statements, in particular, are repeated often in this forum, perpetuating the error.

I explained in my previous post. You seem to agree with the substance of the explanation and clarification. And, indeed, suggest that is much the same as what you meant. So, no need to belabor this further.

Especially since the OP has not shared much detail . . . noting that the details can indeed MATTER . . . and it might be worth adding that one take-away the OP might find relevant is that depending on the circumstances (the details), one way a lengthy period of no income, no employment in Canada, can "matter," is in deciding how long to wait to apply, how much of a margin over the minimum requirement it would be prudent to have. This is a very fact intensive consideration, with wide ranging variability. No one answer fits all. Not anywhere near that. But some prospective applicants with a lengthy period of unemployment might want to seriously consider waiting longer to apply than most applicants do.

 

[RJ2020]

In particular . . .

You said: "Whether you had income during your eligibility period or not does not matter."

That is NOT correct. It can and sometimes does matter. It can definitely matter in terms of who is obligated to file a tax return.

When we say "income does not matter for citizenship application", we mean:

1. If people had $0 income, and if they were required to file their tax returns (For instance, for getting a benefit etc.), and they did file they tax returns frankly, they can check Yes and Yes.
2. If they were not required to file their tax returns with $0 income, and did file the tax return frankly and truthfully , They can check No and Yes.
3. Finally, if they were not required to file their tax returns with $0 income and did not file their tax return, they're good, because according to IRCC website, "You have to file Canadian income taxes (if required to do so under the Income Tax Act) for 3 out of 5 years, matching the new physical presence requirement". They can check No and No.

With all respects, I'm not trying to play with the words. For citizenship application, income does not matter. It's the tax related requirements that matter. That's all I'm trying to say my friend. We all assume that the applicants have been honest in filing their tax returns (if required to file their tax income) with either $0 income or some other amount. So, this is an immigration forum, not a tax related forum. I think it's simple.

If you want more info, you can always refer to IRCC website:
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/individuals-leaving-entering-canada-non-residents/newcomers-canada-immigrants.html#dhtf

And please bear in mind, according to IRCC website:

"You have to file Canadian income taxes (if required to do so under the Income Tax Act) for 3 out of 5 years, matching the new physical presence requirement".

There is nowhere in IRCC website that income is a requirement to be eligible for Citizenship application. Please show us a link related to the income. What you referred in IRCC website was about the tax. So, For instance, my mother had $0 income and was required to file her taxes, and filed all her tax returns honestly and truthfully over the last 4 years, and now, she wants to apply for citizenship. Does she have an issue because she had $0 income? Of course not! That's what the poster asked. Your income does not matter. I mean, if you have more than a specific amount of income, or if you want to use a benefit and in other cases, you should file your income tax. I'm not eligible to talk about tax requirements more than this, because I'm not an expert. However having no income does not matter for Citizenship application my friend. It's the poster's question.

I believe you've misunderstood me and the poster.

Whether people were required to file their tax return or not, whether they were honest in filing their tax returns or not, whether they're honest in declaring their employment/unemployment or educational history in the citizenship application form or not are the most important things to be considered in this matter.

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You said: "You must have filed your tax returns for at least 3 out 5 years during your eligibility period in addition to other important requirements such as RO requirements, language proof etc. "

This too is NOT correct.

I refer you to IRCC website as before.

You have to file Canadian income taxes (if required to do so under the Income Tax Act) for 3 out of 5 years, matching the new physical presence requirement.

Source: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/act-changes/requirements-2017-2018.html

That's what IRCC website says. The only part I missed in my sentence, was this: "if required to do so under the Income Tax Act". I assumed the poster already know it. I sincerely apologize from the poster if he/she did not know that he/she can be either required or not required to file his/her tax returns. However, honestly, I believe he/she already knew and the poster's question had a whole different point. Maybe the poster can clarify it. I do not understand why you say I'm wrong, since I specifically said what IRCC has said except the missed part as mentioned above: "(if required to do so under the Income Tax Act)". With all respects, I believe you're making it too complicated, while it's as simple as it is.


Finally, I do believe you're trying to help other people same as me. I personally appreciate it.

PS: They're all my personal opinions. I might be wrong. You should always refer to IRCC website. You should always rely on IRCC website. If you have any doubts or questions, please try to contact IRCC. You should never rely on only other people's opinions.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

When we say "income does not matter for citizenship application", we mean:

1. If people had $0 income, and if they were required to file their tax returns (For instance, for getting a benefit etc.), and they did file they tax returns frankly, they can check Yes and Yes.
2. If they were not required to file their tax returns with $0 income, and did file the tax return frankly and truthfully , They can check No and Yes.
3. Finally, if they were not required to file their tax returns with $0 income and did not file their tax return, they're good, because according to IRCC website, "You have to file Canadian income taxes (if required to do so under the Income Tax Act) for 3 out of 5 years, matching the new physical presence requirement". They can check No and No.

With all respects, I'm not trying to play with the words. For citizenship application, income does not matter. It's the tax related requirements that matter. That's all I'm trying to say my friend. We all assume that the applicants have been honest in filing their tax returns (if required to file their tax income) with either $0 income or some other amount. So, this is an immigration forum, not a tax related forum. I think it's simple.

If you want more info, you can always refer to IRCC website:
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/individuals-leaving-entering-canada-non-residents/newcomers-canada-immigrants.html#dhtf

And please bear in mind, according to IRCC website:

"You have to file Canadian income taxes (if required to do so under the Income Tax Act) for 3 out of 5 years, matching the new physical presence requirement".

There is nowhere in IRCC website that income is a requirement to be eligible for Citizenship application. Please show us a link related to the income. What you referred in IRCC website was about the tax. So, For instance, my mother had $0 income and was required to file her taxes, and filed all her tax returns honestly and truthfully over the last 4 years, and now, she wants to apply for citizenship. Does she have an issue because she had $0 income? Of course not! That's what the poster asked. Your income does not matter. I mean, if you have more than a specific amount of income, or if you want to use a benefit and in other cases, you should file your income tax. I'm not eligible to talk about tax requirements more than this, because I'm not an expert. However having no income does not matter for Citizenship application my friend. It's the poster's question.

I believe you've misunderstood me and the poster.

Whether people were required to file their tax return or not, whether they were honest in filing their tax returns or not, whether they're honest in declaring their employment/unemployment or educational history in the citizenship application form or not are the most important things to be considered in this matter.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I refer you to IRCC website as before.


Source: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/act-changes/requirements-2017-2018.html

That's what IRCC website says. The only part I missed in my sentence, was this: "if required to do so under the Income Tax Act". I assumed the poster already know it. I sincerely apologize from the poster if he/she did not know that he/she can be either required or not required to file his/her tax returns. However, honestly, I believe he/she already knew and the poster's question had a whole different point. Maybe the poster can clarify it. I do not understand why you say I'm wrong, since I specifically said what IRCC has said except the missed part as mentioned above: "(if required to do so under the Income Tax Act)". With all respects, I believe you're making it too complicated, while it's as simple as it is.


Finally, I do believe you're trying to help other people same as me. I personally appreciate it.

PS: They're all my personal opinions. I might be wrong. You should always refer to IRCC website. You should always rely on IRCC website. If you have any doubts or questions, please try to contact IRCC. You should never rely on only other people's opinions.

Well, I agree with this reasoning.

Income isn't a barrier for your citizenship application.

1. If you were required to file taxes and you did, perfect.
2. If you were NOT required to file taxes BUT you still did, good.
3. If you were NOT required to file taxes AND you didn't, this is fine too.

"You have to file Canadian income taxes (if required to do so under the Income Tax Act) for 3 out of 5 years, matching the new physical presence requirement".

The highlighted part above is the key.

For instance, say if someone is a stay-at-home parent (and has no income) and their spouse is the only working member of the family, then is the stay-at-home parent not eligible for citizenship? Certainly not. In this case, the parent might still have to file a return if they access benefits like GST/HST credit, Universal Child care etc.

Having said all this...

Especially since the OP has not shared much detail . . . noting that the details can indeed MATTER . . . and it might be worth adding that one take-away the OP might find relevant is that depending on the circumstances (the details), one way a lengthy period of no income, no employment in Canada, can "matter," is in deciding how long to wait to apply, how much of a margin over the minimum requirement it would be prudent to have. This is a very fact intensive consideration, with wide ranging variability. No one answer fits all. Not anywhere near that. But some prospective applicants with a lengthy period of unemployment might want to seriously consider waiting longer to apply than most applicants do.

This part makes sense. If you don't file a return at all and have no income, then IRCC might strictly scrutinize the application to ensure that the person was actually in Canada because this person had no income or claimed no benefits (how was the person able to survive here with no income, unless he is applying with a partner who has income and has filed taxes) and there are no tax returns on file. This will increase processing times, the applicant in most cases will be issued a detailed RQ and might also be scrutinized more in the interview.

 

[dpenabill]

1. If you were required to file taxes and you did, perfect.
2. If you were NOT required to file taxes BUT you still did, good.
3. If you were NOT required to file taxes AND you didn't, this is fine too.

Yep. Well stated succinctly.

And you appropriately emphasized the difference between:

You must have filed your tax returns for at least 3 out 5 years during your eligibility period . . .

and

"You have to file Canadian income taxes (if required to do so under the Income Tax Act) for 3 out of 5 years, matching the new physical presence requirement".

One can say, about the former, "only part missed . . . was this: "if required to do so under the Income Tax Act". But contrary to protests otherwise, that is a rather big miss.

As you aptly note, the highlighted (underlined and in red) part is key.

Which is not to overlook or underestimate the wisdom of having filed Canadian tax returns, even if not required to do so, by someone planning to apply for citizenship. Which goes to what can "matter" apart from what is "required."

At the risk of overstating the point, but important more generally, it warrants making another observation about the language quoted here from IRCC, that is

"You have to file Canadian income taxes (if required to do so under the Income Tax Act) for 3 out of 5 years, matching the new physical presence requirement".​

This does NOT come from the instructions for making a citizenship application. And to be clear, this is NOT what the instructions state.

That language comes from an information web page aimed at helping prospective citizenship applicants understand the difference between the requirements for citizenship before October 11, 2017 and those after that date. Here it makes little substantive difference, but it is ALWAYS better to resort to and rely on the actual instructions for a particular application.

Note, for example, the page from which the quoted language is taken was last updated in 2018. The application form and the instructions for applying for citizenship have been modified multiple times since then, including a rather significant change recently . . . and indeed, I forget the effective date, but fairly soon IRCC will only accept applications made using the October 2020 version of CIT 0002, and will return applications made using previous versions as incomplete.

And to be clear, the actual, current instructions for the citizenship application state, in regards to the relevant eligibility requirement: to be eligible the applicant "may need to file personal income taxes for at least 3 years within the 5-year period." Some might not recognize or acknowledge it, but the difference between "may" and "must" is important. And the instructions for item 12, which is where the applicant reports tax filing information, begins "To determine if you were required, under the Income Tax Act, to file income taxes, please refer to the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) information on Newcomers to Canada (immigrants)."

One important and beneficial change to the application form is that the applicant now enters the date before the day the applicant makes the application in item 9 . . . this is the "To" date for the five year eligibility period, and now the form automatically then enters (auto-completes) the date exactly five years previous as the "From" date for the five year eligibility period, and it also automatically enters the five tax years in the item 12.b) chart, in the column for "Tax Year."

In any event, for purposes of the inquiries posed here by the OP, in particular, more or less reinforcing previous observations about what-matters and how-it-might-matter, it is worth noting what more the application instructions state. In particular, the instructions for item 12, the tax-related item, say that IRCC requests the tax related information (including SIN) not just to determine if the applicant has met the income tax compliance requirement, but it specifically says it uses this information to help determine if the applicant meets the "physical presence requirements for citizenship," and to "support quality assurance and integrity in the citizenship program."

As previously noted, if IRCC asks for the information, it-matters, even if it does not directly relate to a particular requirement.

 

[RJ2020]

At the risk of overstating the point, but important more generally, it warrants making another observation about the language quoted here from IRCC, that is

"You have to file Canadian income taxes (if required to do so under the Income Tax Act) for 3 out of 5 years, matching the new physical presence requirement".​

This does NOT come from the instructions for making a citizenship application. And to be clear, this is NOT what the instructions state.

That language comes from an information web page aimed at helping prospective citizenship applicants understand the difference between the requirements for citizenship before October 11, 2017 and those after that date. Here it makes little substantive difference, but it is ALWAYS better to resort to and rely on the actual instructions for a particular application.

Note, for example, the page from which the quoted language is taken was last updated in 2018. The application form and the instructions for applying for citizenship have been modified multiple times since then, including a rather significant change recently . . . and indeed, I forget the effective date, but fairly soon IRCC will only accept applications made using the October 2020 version of CIT 0002, and will return applications made using previous versions as incomplete.

And to be clear, the actual, current instructions for the citizenship application state, in regards to the relevant eligibility requirement: to be eligible the applicant "may need to file personal income taxes for at least 3 years within the 5-year period." Some might not recognize or acknowledge it, but the difference between "may" and "must" is important. And the instructions for item 12, which is where the applicant reports tax filing information, begins "To determine if you were required, under the Income Tax Act, to file income taxes, please refer to the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) information on Newcomers to Canada (immigrants)."

One important and beneficial change to the application form is that the applicant now enters the date before the day the applicant makes the application in item 9 . . . this is the "To" date for the five year eligibility period, and now the form automatically then enters (auto-completes) the date exactly five years previous as the "From" date for the five year eligibility period, and it also automatically enters the five tax years in the item 12.b) chart, in the column for "Tax Year."

In any event, for purposes of the inquiries posed here by the OP, in particular, more or less reinforcing previous observations about what-matters and how-it-might-matter, it is worth noting what more the application instructions state. In particular, the instructions for item 12, the tax-related item, say that IRCC requests the tax related information (including SIN) not just to determine if the applicant has met the income tax compliance requirement, but it specifically says it uses this information to help determine if the applicant meets the "physical presence requirements for citizenship," and to "support quality assurance and integrity in the citizenship program."

As previously noted, if IRCC asks for the information, it-matters, even if it does not directly relate to a particular requirement.

I completely understand that you're trying to help. I really appreciate it. I'm trying to help as well and I did my best to refer to IRCC website as much as I can. The problem is, people ask questions in these forums, and we try to answer as concise as we can in order to help them. The poster asked about the income. I said that income does not matter due to the reasons I explained in the last post.

I just wonder if you can clarify it for me.

So, could you please explain the difference between these two statements from IRCC website? Because you mentioned that this statement is from an old information page.

"You have to file Canadian income taxes (if required to do so under the Income Tax Act) for 3 out of 5 years, matching the new physical presence requirement".

Source: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/act-changes/requirements-2017-2018.html


And this is from the instruction guide:

To be eligible for Canadian citizenship, you:

• must be a permanent resident (landed immigrant) of Canada
• must have been physically present in Canada for at least 1,095 days in the 5 years immediately before you apply
• may need to file personal income taxes for at least 3 years within the 5-year period
  • Find out if you need to file your taxes

Source:https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-0002-application-canadian-citizenship-under-subsection-5-1-adults-18-years-older.html

 

[RJ2020]

Well, I agree with this reasoning.

Income isn't a barrier for your citizenship application.

1. If you were required to file taxes and you did, perfect.
2. If you were NOT required to file taxes BUT you still did, good.
3. If you were NOT required to file taxes AND you didn't, this is fine too.

"You have to file Canadian income taxes (if required to do so under the Income Tax Act) for 3 out of 5 years, matching the new physical presence requirement".

The highlighted part above is the key.

For instance, say if someone is a stay-at-home parent (and has no income) and their spouse is the only working member of the family, then is the stay-at-home parent not eligible for citizenship? Certainly not. In this case, the parent might still have to file a return if they access benefits like GST/HST credit, Universal Child care etc.

Having said all this...

I completely agree. Income isn't a barrier for your citizenship application. Well said.

This part makes sense. If you don't file a return at all and have no income, then IRCC might strictly scrutinize the application to ensure that the person was actually in Canada because this person had no income or claimed no benefits (how was the person able to survive here with no income, unless he is applying with a partner who has income and has filed taxes) and there are no tax returns on file. This will increase processing times, the applicant in most cases will be issued a detailed RQ and might also be scrutinized more in the interview.

I completely agree again. If you've not filed any tax returns, or claimed no benefit, even if you were not required to file tax returns, it might raise some questions. As you said, the applicants might be required to present some more documents to prove that they meet the physical presence requirements. I even mentioned that before regarding employment/being at school.

Needless to say, if an officer needs the applicants to prove their presence in Canada, employment is one of the ways. Being at school/university is another way and there are many other ways. It does not mean that the employment or being at school during their eligibility period is mandatory. That's all I'm trying to say! and that's all the poster asked in this forum.

PS: They're all my personal opinions. I might be wrong. We should always refer to IRCC website. We should always rely on IRCC website. If we have any doubts or questions, better to try to contact IRCC. We should never rely on only other people's opinions.

 

[limits]

I have no idea why there are such long ass answers in here and I don't intend to read any of them. To answer your question, no.

 

[dpenabill]

I completely understand that you're trying to help. I really appreciate it. I'm trying to help as well and I did my best to refer to IRCC website as much as I can. The problem is, people ask questions in these forums, and we try to answer as concise as we can in order to help them. The poster asked about the income. I said that income does not matter due to the reasons I explained in the last post.

I just wonder if you can clarify it for me.

So, could you please explain the difference between these two statements from IRCC website? Because you mentioned that this statement is from an old information page.

"You have to file Canadian income taxes (if required to do so under the Income Tax Act) for 3 out of 5 years, matching the new physical presence requirement".​

Source: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/act-changes/requirements-2017-2018.html


And this is from the instruction guide:

To be eligible for Canadian citizenship, you:​

• must be a permanent resident (landed immigrant) of Canada
  • must have been physically present in Canada for at least 1,095 days in the 5 years immediately before you apply
  • may need to file personal income taxes for at least 3 years within the 5-year period
  • Find out if you need to file your taxes

Source:https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-0002-application-canadian-citizenship-under-subsection-5-1-adults-18-years-older.html

Not sure what you are looking for.

In my post I stated: "Here it makes little substantive difference, but it is ALWAYS better to resort to and rely on the actual instructions for a particular application."

And one could add, it is particularly important to resort to and rely on the actual instructions for the particular item. In the current application form we are talking about item 12. If the applicant follows those instructions, for Item 12, and just answers the questions straight-up, according to the facts relevant to what is asked, it is pretty easy to avoid mistakes or problems. Especially now, with the new form, since it automatically fills in the relevant five tax years, and all the applicant needs to do is truthfully check [Yes] or [No] in both columns, for each year, and the form will alert the applicant if the applicant's responses fail to meet the requirements. (Assuming any bugs in the form are fixed.)

In terms of the two quotes, I suppose some could be distracted or even confused by the "IF . . . " form in one, versus the "may" form in the other, but substantively they amount to the same. ("May" probably illuminates the conditional variability better, but syntactically they amount to the same.)

To be clear, though, neither states that to be eligible the applicant must file tax returns for three years; that is simply NOT what either of them say. Substantively, rather, both state (in effect) that the applicant MIGHT need to have filed tax returns for three years in order to be eligible.

Additionally, neither is an instruction about how to complete item 12 in the application. As noted above, best to resort to and rely on the instruction for the particular item itself.

The problem is, people ask questions in these forums . . .

You are right that the manner in which questions are asked here can make it difficult to directly, succinctly, and accurately give an answer. Especially when there is no one rule fits all. Which happens to be the case a lot.

Generalizations proliferate the threads here. They are often accurate enough for most, but they are prone to be misleading for some. In particular, what usually works for most applicants can lead to a disaster for a few others.

To the extent questions can be sufficiently answered briefly, you are also right to point to the information provided by IRCC. Usually this is simply what it says in the instructions.

"Does it matter . . . ?" questions raise a variety of issues. Often it is the case that such a question is about what the requirements are, not about how this or that circumstance might affect processing.

Here, however, the manner in which the OP framed the three questions almost certainly indicates the question is about what the impact will be if the applicant had years of unemployment and little or no personal income. Not so much about what is required, but whether being unemployed and having no income will cause a problem.

Sure, the "no" answer will likely work for many if not most. But that overlooks the dark swirling current of RQ-related non-routine processing that can be lurking below the surface for some applicants. Who and why gets complicated.

The OP did not offer anywhere near enough information to gauge whether or to what extent it might matter in the OP's case.

In any event, nonetheless, it is accurate to say (as I did in the very first line of my response to the OP) "employment is not required." But to also caution, as I did in that first line as well, that "employment history matters."

As I also noted, for the vast majority of applicants, NO PROBLEM . . . that is, no problem UNLESS something else triggers questions and concerns. And I assured the OP "odds are high you have no cause to worry."

Otherwise, as I further observed: "But it is misleading, if not overtly erroneous, to categorically dismiss the importance the applicant's employment history MIGHT have."

And, indeed, it is important enough that IRCC not only requires applicants to fully disclose their work and other activity history for five full years, with details as to dates and employers, leaving no gaps, it requests applicants provide tax filing information sufficient for IRCC to pursue inquiries sufficient to cross-check and verify the applicant's information.

As I oft times repeat: if IRCC asks for the information, it matters. (The only question then is how so?)