US citizen in Canada (PR) working for US company as an FTE paid into US Bank

[piotrqc]

There's a pandemic, i think we can forgive the government for delays in citizenship applications.

If you look at how immigrants have been treated in the U.S under the Trump administration, you would see we've been very lucky to be PRs in Canada.

9 months late, without any communication? ... It is incompetence at this level. And there is no harm in saying it. No harm, it is even something holy in a democracy as I said.

See how France quickly picked up citizenship applications, and how Australia effectively introduced online testing ...

Your comparison is just disheartening and sad ... Why always compare yourself to worse than our situation? Why not compare yourself with a better situation to move forward?

We have the right to be ambicious, and to want the best for our host country (and future home country). I love Canada just as much as you do, and always want her to be the best. Don't compare worse to implicitly convince yourself that you have to be happy and shut up.

Going back to the main topic of this thread, it is true that such a financial package will certainly delay an ongoing citizenship application. It is in itself a blockage for a certain category of people who work independently.

Perhaps a stricter control of entries and exits from Canada could remove this kind of suspicion, as long as the minimum period of residence is respected (And in the same spirit, such a control could also, why not, allow the emission resident card with a validity period greater than 5 years).

 

[Islander216]

Sure, i have nothing against constructive criticism. But in the broader scheme of things, it's not a priority when there are so many other pressing matters for the government to attend to which require resources, and could be literally life and death matters.

There's no harm in saying they need to do better, i absolutely agree with that. But i also think it's important to have perspective and to prioritise essential services at this difficult moment in time. It's important to recognise that they aren't operating under normal circumstances.

Now is not the ideal time for ambition when we're facing a second lockdown in major cities and infections are skyrocketing.

I don't mean to be dismissive of your plight, just think we all need to make sacrifices at the moment for the greater good.

 

[deadbird]

Agree that citizenship brings some security but think many would not risk creative tax structures any time especially if they have US citizenship or investments in the US and know they will likely face more scrutiny.

US tax complications seem like a tangential issue. OP's concern was with Canadian citizenship. Plus not everyone interested in innovative tax structures in Canada is a US citizen (probably the vast majority aren't).

 

[chs]

US tax complications seem like a tangential issue. OP's concern was with Canadian citizenship. Plus not everyone interested in innovative tax structures in Canada is a US citizen (probably the vast majority aren't).

OP here - Yeah, citizenship and staying 100% above board with any tax obligations. What a drag if you're a US person; it's not the most fun game in town, for sure. Anyways, I hope this thread proves useful to other US expats here looking to see what the laws are like between the two countries. Best of luck.

 

[canuck78]

9 months late, without any communication? ... It is incompetence at this level. And there is no harm in saying it. No harm, it is even something holy in a democracy as I said.

See how France quickly picked up citizenship applications, and how Australia effectively introduced online testing ...

Your comparison is just disheartening and sad ... Why always compare yourself to worse than our situation? Why not compare yourself with a better situation to move forward?

We have the right to be ambicious, and to want the best for our host country (and future home country). I love Canada just as much as you do, and always want her to be the best. Don't compare worse to implicitly convince yourself that you have to be happy and shut up.

Going back to the main topic of this thread, it is true that such a financial package will certainly delay an ongoing citizenship application. It is in itself a blockage for a certain category of people who work independently.

Perhaps a stricter control of entries and exits from Canada could remove this kind of suspicion, as long as the minimum period of residence is respected (And in the same spirit, such a control could also, why not, allow the emission resident card with a validity period greater than 5 years).

Australia is also preventing their citizens from returning home because they only let a few thousand enter and pay for quarantine so they are far from a perfect immigration example. French applications are facing sdelays like all other countries struggling with covid. Blocking most from entering have let them get things up and running faster. You were the one who randomly commented about standing up for citizenship in an unrelated conversation so don't tell me to shut up. Being ambitious has nothing to do with citizenship.

 

[canuck78]

Waw! ... Thank you for your kindness, what a privilege! ... Oh boy!

... Let's be serious, this is just the norm for people legally resident permanently, and contributing to this society, through taxes and their work. Not a privilege at all, it's just normal. Even more for a developed country like Canada, we are not in a third world country.
The opposite will have been shocking.




* We have the right to wish the best for our adopted country (and our country quite simply). Bringing constructive criticism or even demonstrations when necessary is not a bad thing ... It is even desired, and it is the sign of a healthy democratic society, don't you agree?
Don't we have the right to be demanding and very ambitious for our country? ... I want my adopted country (and my country soon) to be the BEST. Where is the harm in this?

* One does not prevent the other, one can be indignant at the exaggerated delays in the citizenship process (or any other administrative act of the federal or provincial public service), and at the same time be indignant at the things you mention. Neither is interchangeable. All outrage is legitimate ... Are you trying to establish a hierarchy in outrage?

I have a question for you, @canuck78 , if you allow.

If tomorrow an O'toole majority conservative government changes the rules for citizenship retroactively, and cancels all existing files (It's a suposition), do you necessarily consider this to be a source of some indignation? Or just an unimportant question and not a priority? ...

I'm curious to know. (Although I have a small idea of your thought, but it remains assumptions resulting from perceptions due to your different and numerous interventions).

You and I both know that nobody is changing the citizenship requirements. O'Toole would need MPs from other parties and it would need to go through the Senate. Just like the citizenship test, the government has way bigger issues and the conservatives would never even propose hanging the citizenship requirements without a majority conservative government. Please stop the fearmongering. Nobody is changing the citizenship requirements anytime soon and especially retroactively.

 

[piotrqc]

Australia is also preventing their citizens from returning home because they only let a few thousand enter and pay for quarantine so they are far from a perfect immigration example. French applications are facing sdelays like all other countries struggling with covid. Blocking most from entering have let them get things up and running faster. You were the one who randomly commented about standing up for citizenship in an unrelated conversation so don't tell me to shut up. Being ambitious has nothing to do with citizenship.

So we had to wait wisely and indefinitely and let the backlog grow endlessly? ... We must consider ourselves happy to be there, just work, consume, pay our taxes and keep quiet, is that what you are implying? ... Wow, great!
I never told you to shut up.
And when I speak of ambition, it is the ambition that we can have for our adopted country ... so that it is the best. This included the integrity of public services and their efficiency ... And the ability to adapt to a pandemic for example ... This could not go on indefinitely.

You and I both know that nobody is changing the citizenship requirements. O'Toole would need MPs from other parties and it would need to go through the Senate. Just like the citizenship test, the government has way bigger issues and the conservatives would never even propose hanging the citizenship requirements without a majority conservative government. Please stop the fearmongering. Nobody is changing the citizenship requirements anytime soon and especially retroactively.

Basically you don't express yourself on the question asked, you don't provide any answer, and you just deny the probability of my predictions.
My interpretation is that - this is the impression you give - is that such changes will make you happy for ideological reasons.

My words are not alamist, just realistic and probable.

Conservative governments in the past have already changed immigration programs retroactively, returning all backlog files to applicants, and inviting them to re-apply under the new criteria. You can't deny it.

There will very probably be early elections in spring 2021 (when each finance law is tabled, there is a vote of confidence), and you know it very well, the ndp will not be able to save the current minority government indefinitely. ...

O'toole may take advantage of we charity and other scandals, and it is not totally ruled out that he wins a majority ... If a Conservative majority government does not change the law retroactively by dismissing all the backlog as you say, I suggest that at the very least, it will maintain the status quo ... In any case, nothing beneficial for us, that's for sure.

 

[Islander216]

There certainly are valid fears of Conservatives changing laws and making life harder for immigrants wanting to gain citizenship.

Among the changes the Harper government made with bill C-24 was the ability for the government to revoke citizenship for naturalised citizens, increased the waiting period for citizenship from 3 in 5 years to 4 in 6 years, and increased citizenship fees drastically.

Sorry to go off topic, but there is certainly a precedent which has been established.

 

[Islander216]

@chs , just curious about how you feel, but do you think that your reporting responsibilities in the U.S would ever get to a point where you would consider renouncing U.S citizenship?

I'm trying to figure out how onerous it really is.

 

[chs]

@chs , just curious about how you feel, but do you think that your reporting responsibilities in the U.S would ever get to a point where you would consider renouncing U.S citizenship?

I'm trying to figure out how onerous it really is.

It's certainly on my mind. I have an American friend in Berlin who is renouncing next summer for tax and political reasons. There are a lot of downsides and not many upsides to being a US expat and taxes are first and foremost on my mind. Renouncing, however, brings a new host of headaches - the US has one of the highest, if not THE highest renunciation fees in the world, makes you wait 6+ months for the privilege of renunciation, taxes you globally on income, irrespective of where it's earned (putting us in the enviable company of the likes of countries like Eritrea - the only other country that taxes expats) and FATCA/FBAR obligations are so onerous (Thanks, Obama!*) that most foreign banks now don't take US citizens or PR holders as clients (Canada is somewhat an anomaly, given its proximity to the US.) Oh, and let's not forget that, if you renounce, the US government "names and shames" those that would dare give up such a "gift" (Don't believe me? Look here.)

If I could ever make a decision on whether or not I would return to work in the US (I still do miss NY from time to time and have family still in the South), I think that would be one of the final determinants on whether or not I would renounce.

* - Whilst I took a potshot at Obama for FATCA/FBAR, some variation of it existed long before him - he just gave it teeth. Thanks, indeed.

 

[Islander216]

It's certainly on my mind. I have an American friend in Berlin who is renouncing next summer for tax and political reasons. There are a lot of downsides and not many upsides to being a US expat and taxes are first and foremost on my mind. Renouncing, however, brings a new host of headaches - the US has one of the highest, if not THE highest renunciation fees in the world, makes you wait 6+ months for the privilege of renunciation, taxes you globally on income, irrespective of where it's earned (putting us in the enviable company of the likes of countries like Eritrea - the only other country that taxes expats) and FATCA/FBAR obligations are so onerous (Thanks, Obama!*) that most foreign banks now don't take US citizens or PR holders as clients (Canada is somewhat an anomaly, given its proximity to the US.) Oh, and let's not forget that, if you renounce, the US government "names and shames" those that would dare give up such a "gift" (Don't believe me? Look here.)

If I could ever make a decision on whether or not I would return to work in the US (I still do miss NY from time to time and have family still in the South), I think that would be one of the final determinants on whether or not I would renounce.

* - Whilst I took a potshot at Obama for FATCA/FBAR, some variation of it existed long before him - he just gave it teeth. Thanks, indeed.

Really interesting insight, thanks a lot. Yes, i've heard about how it's difficult for U.S expats, not just the taxation but even if they don't have to pay, it's the paperwork and tax filings which are really annoying and cumbersome as well.

I've had potentially settling in the U.S as one of my objectives, better weather, more opportunities, and the better exchange rate vs the CAD. But i am a bit concerned about what that would mean long term with the citizenship based taxation.

 

[chs]

Really interesting insight, thanks a lot. Yes, i've heard about how it's difficult for U.S expats, not just the taxation but even if they don't have to pay, it's the paperwork and tax filings which are really annoying and cumbersome as well.

I've had potentially settling in the U.S as one of my objectives, better weather, more opportunities, and the better exchange rate vs the CAD. But i am a bit concerned about what that would mean long term with the citizenship based taxation.

I've only owed taxes twice in the last 8 years that I've been an expat and, each time, it wasn't much (As in, < $1k .) As you correctly observed, it's not necessarily the money that's problematic, it's the fact that you have to file every. single. year. There are, of course, bespoke companies who can help you with that (I have a company for my US taxes and an accountant for my CAD one), but I wouldn't, in good faith, recommend the US as a long-term option until and unless they fix this FATCA/FBAR boondoggle.

Best of luck!

 

[canuck78]

Really interesting insight, thanks a lot. Yes, i've heard about how it's difficult for U.S expats, not just the taxation but even if they don't have to pay, it's the paperwork and tax filings which are really annoying and cumbersome as well.

I've had potentially settling in the U.S as one of my objectives, better weather, more opportunities, and the better exchange rate vs the CAD. But i am a bit concerned about what that would mean long term with the citizenship based taxation.

Those who renounce tend to be older and have settled longterm in Canada.

 

[deadbird]

It's certainly on my mind. I have an American friend in Berlin who is renouncing next summer for tax and political reasons. There are a lot of downsides and not many upsides to being a US expat and taxes are first and foremost on my mind. Renouncing, however, brings a new host of headaches - the US has one of the highest, if not THE highest renunciation fees in the world, makes you wait 6+ months for the privilege of renunciation, taxes you globally on income, irrespective of where it's earned (putting us in the enviable company of the likes of countries like Eritrea - the only other country that taxes expats) and FATCA/FBAR obligations are so onerous (Thanks, Obama!*) that most foreign banks now don't take US citizens or PR holders as clients (Canada is somewhat an anomaly, given its proximity to the US.) Oh, and let's not forget that, if you renounce, the US government "names and shames" those that would dare give up such a "gift" (Don't believe me? Look here.)

If I could ever make a decision on whether or not I would return to work in the US (I still do miss NY from time to time and have family still in the South), I think that would be one of the final determinants on whether or not I would renounce.

* - Whilst I took a potshot at Obama for FATCA/FBAR, some variation of it existed long before him - he just gave it teeth. Thanks, indeed.

Yeah the naming and shaming thing is really uncalled for. I can imagine why they do it though. Surely someone has to be crazy to give up on 'Murrikah!

Also note, the exit tax also applies to long term green card holders as well, not just US citizens.

 

[chs]

Those who renounce tend to be older and have settled longterm in Canada.

I'm completely unsurprised. On top of that, they probably don't want to have Uncle Sam's tentacles too deep into their finances, especially if their Significant Other is not a US citizen/PR, yet still has to share banking information with the IRS. Far from ideal.

Yeah the naming and shaming thing is really uncalled for. I can imagine why they do it though. Surely someone has to be crazy to give up on 'Murrikah!

Also note, the exit tax also applies to long term green card holders as well, not just US citizens.

Originally it was to shame the multimillionaires that were renouncing for tax reasons. As usual, it was never temporary and became a staple, just like FATCA/FBAR, which doesn't bring in that much revenue compared to the excessive heartburn it causes thousands of families across the globe that have never set foot on US soil. I seem to recall reading somewhere that expats were the second-largest voting bloc; I forget who was first (or even if this is still true, due to declining expat numbers) ; it would be nice if we could get someone to listen to us and move like the rest of the world on ending citizenship-based taxation (sigh.. I know it's a Sisyphean task, but a man can dream, right?)