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Slightly more than 3 years abroad

benstirlag

Newbie
Oct 11, 2020
7
0
Hi,
I got PR status in 2017 but so far I only spent 100days in Canada.
I computed that I could only meet 729 days out of 730 days (as of today).

Let's say if I try to go back to Canada this week (from Europe), I would be less than a week short, what are the odds that my PR is cancelled ?
I am single, in my early 40s and no job waiting for me (even if I know that would not be a problem to find one).
I don't have any serious reason why I was abroad except that I had hard time to quit my job, got a few family members getting sick (but I have no proof) and lately the covid19 really made me hesitate.
I guess nobody will be able to say.
Also is there an entry point/airport where the likelihood of having an indulgent immigration officer is greater ?
 

IndianBos

Hero Member
Oct 8, 2014
313
142
Toronto, Canada
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
CPC-O
NOC Code......
2174
App. Filed.......
19-Jun-2014
Nomination.....
16-Oct-2014
File Transfer...
11-Dec-2014
Med's Request
24-Apr-2015 (Delayed for adding a child)
Med's Done....
9-May-2015 (Updated 29-May-2015)
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
17-Jun-2015 (mailed 29-June-2015)
VISA ISSUED...
11-Jul-2015
LANDED..........
7-Sep-2015
Hi,
I got PR status in 2017 but so far I only spent 100days in Canada.
I computed that I could only meet 729 days out of 730 days (as of today).

Let's say if I try to go back to Canada this week (from Europe), I would be less than a week short, what are the odds that my PR is cancelled ?
I am single, in my early 40s and no job waiting for me (even if I know that would not be a problem to find one).
I don't have any serious reason why I was abroad except that I had hard time to quit my job, got a few family members getting sick (but I have no proof) and lately the covid19 really made me hesitate.
I guess nobody will be able to say.
Also is there an entry point/airport where the likelihood of having an indulgent immigration officer is greater ?
Chances of your PR getting cancelled are low in my opinion. They anyways can't cancel your PR at the border, they will have to let you in if the PR Card is still valid. Two possible scenarios below can happen, and there is no way to predict. I had a similar case in 2018 and went through #1 below:

1. (Most likely) Since you are only a few days short on residency obligation, you will be sent to secondary review. They will ask you a lot of questions about your intent to settle in Canada, add those comments to their database and let you in with a warning. In this case, you will need to stay in Canada for 2 years or till you are back in compliance with residency obligation. Your PR is in good standing.

2. (Less likely) You will be reported short of residency, they will give you the forms to revoke PR but will still let you in Canada (if PR card is valid). You will have 30 days to appeal the PR revocation, the case will go on for a year or so.
 

benstirlag

Newbie
Oct 11, 2020
7
0
Ok thanks,

and in case of PR revocation (2.), if I don't appeal, is it possible to start over again, apply again for another PR ?
Is it better to avoid being reported and that I voluntarily renounce my PR status abroad ?
 

IndianBos

Hero Member
Oct 8, 2014
313
142
Toronto, Canada
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
CPC-O
NOC Code......
2174
App. Filed.......
19-Jun-2014
Nomination.....
16-Oct-2014
File Transfer...
11-Dec-2014
Med's Request
24-Apr-2015 (Delayed for adding a child)
Med's Done....
9-May-2015 (Updated 29-May-2015)
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
17-Jun-2015 (mailed 29-June-2015)
VISA ISSUED...
11-Jul-2015
LANDED..........
7-Sep-2015
If I was in your place, I would take my chances to enter Canada with existing PR than go through revocation and reapply. Your number of days short is not very high.

Hopefully others can comment how long or complex the revocation process is.
 

Bs65

VIP Member
Mar 22, 2016
13,187
2,420
Would tend to agree with above in that assume your PR card is valid through 2022 and if you may by then in 2022 be a few days short of meeting the 2 out of 5 RO renouncing your PR status would seem a bit drastic at this stage.

As a PR you would be enititled to enter Canada regardless and suspect although no way to predict that CBSA may be more focussed on COVID and your isolation plan than to spend much time on reporting you given if you stay put for 2 plus years once entered you could meet the RO.

Really depends on your circumstances at this time whether you are ready to travel to Canada and stay put for a couple of years. Even if you either eventually lose your status through being revoked or chose to renounce it doesnt stop you from applying again in the future Most on here would recommend if circumstances allow take the chance and even if sent for secondary inspection you could try COVID as a reason for delaying your return this year given all the different travel restrictions.

As always with CBSA only answer questions asked do not volunteer extra information but make sure you have a sound isolation plan with contact details and accommodation in place for 14 days minimum

As for entry point there is no such thing as any CBSA at POE being easier than any other
 

benstirlag

Newbie
Oct 11, 2020
7
0
Would tend to agree with above in that assume your PR card is valid through 2022 and if you may by then in 2022 be a few days short of meeting the 2 out of 5 RO renouncing your PR status would seem a bit drastic at this stage.

As a PR you would be enititled to enter Canada regardless and suspect although no way to predict that CBSA may be more focussed on COVID and your isolation plan than to spend much time on reporting you given if you stay put for 2 plus years once entered you could meet the RO.

Really depends on your circumstances at this time whether you are ready to travel to Canada and stay put for a couple of years. Even if you either eventually lose your status through being revoked or chose to renounce it doesnt stop you from applying again in the future Most on here would recommend if circumstances allow take the chance and even if sent for secondary inspection you could try COVID as a reason for delaying your return this year given all the different travel restrictions.

As always with CBSA only answer questions asked do not volunteer extra information but make sure you have a sound isolation plan with contact details and accommodation in place for 14 days minimum

As for entry point there is no such thing as any CBSA at POE being easier than any other
Thanks a lot for the answer, I might take a chance very soon.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,276
8,887
1. (Most likely) Since you are only a few days short on residency obligation, you will be sent to secondary review. They will ask you a lot of questions about your intent to settle in Canada, add those comments to their database and let you in with a warning. In this case, you will need to stay in Canada for 2 years or till you are back in compliance with residency obligation. Your PR is in good standing.

2. (Less likely) You will be reported short of residency, they will give you the forms to revoke PR but will still let you in Canada (if PR card is valid). You will have 30 days to appeal the PR revocation, the case will go on for a year or so.
There is a third scenario - that PR is not sent for secondary review but just waved through. A few days out of compliance with RO might be just ignored or only with a question or two. And certainly right now, saying return to Canada was delayed by covid - even without any specifics at all or the most basic explanation like 'hard to find flights' (true in many countries) or 'planning return and respecting isolation requirements took extra time' - would likely be considered reasonable H&C circumstances.

Important note, this does NOT mean that there will not be a note in the file or that the same consideration or additional leniency will be granted in future. So very important to consider that to avoid risk of being reported and dealing with all of the resulting problems, staying put in Canada is important. Every time crossing border out of compliance could lead to being reported (could - I'm making no guess about likelihood in future). Returning as soon as possible is helpful because increases flexibility/sooner return to being in compliance.

I don't like to guess about likelihood but my guess is that the likelihood of the second scenario above - them starting the reporting process - is fairly low right now (for this case). It's extra work for the officers at the point of entry, and (like any human being) they do not like doing extra work in circumstances where the subsequent review process is going to overturn their decision. On review/appeal, they HAVE to give consideration for H&C matters, and covid is a real H&C reason. (That said, there are other matters, like credibility, so I'm not saying it's not possible, just less likely).

One additional point: given recent government announcements about increasing strictness for covid related measures and enforcement, they WILL ask about self-isolation plans, and they likely will want to know the PR is entering to stay, not just a visit or trip. It's possible they will focus on plans to self-isolate and that the PR at point of entry understands and will respect the rules far more than RO compliance - or not even ask about RO compliance and only be interested in compliance with covid-related measures. Must be prepared to respond in detail and credibly about plans to follow all covid-related requirements. (Not being credible in answers in one area often does lead to asking more questions and less benefit-of-the-doubt in other even unrelated areas)
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
There is a third scenario - that PR is not sent for secondary review but just waved through. A few days out of compliance with RO might be just ignored or only with a question or two. And certainly right now, saying return to Canada was delayed by covid - even without any specifics at all or the most basic explanation like 'hard to find flights' (true in many countries) or 'planning return and respecting isolation requirements took extra time' - would likely be considered reasonable H&C circumstances.
I concur in these observations with some emphasis, and the rest of the post in large part.

Even if referred to Secondary, prospect of a waive through without being questioned much as to RO compliance seems good.

Of course this depends on WHEN the trip to Canada happens. The longer it goes, the more that pushes down the sliding scale of odds.

But, even if arriving SOON, being given an admonition about RO compliance would be no surprise . . . along with a note or flag to the client's GCMS. I am not sure, but I think this can result from the PIL (Primary Inspection Line) examination even if there is no referral to Secondary.


Further, In General Note:

In browsing IAD decisions recently I noticed how many RO appeal cases involve Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, rather than Citizenship and Immigration (CIC remains the official name of IRCC for legal proceedings). Not all of the RO cases involving Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness are PoE 44(1) Report appeals but a high percentage are . . . and it is readily apparent there are more of these cases compared to appeals of Visa Office decisions denying a PR TD than there were in previous years . . . meaning it appears that enforcement of the RO at the PoE has probably increased over the last 3 to 5 or more years.

In contrast, for example, 5 to 10 years ago it was very common to see anecdotal reports about PRs being waived through the PoE examination, with minimal screening for RO compliance, as long as the PR presented a valid PR card. During that time, 5 to 10 years ago, we did see an increase in the number of PRs Reported at the PoE when there was a combination of (1) obviously having been abroad for a long time upon arrival, and (2) the PR was arriving in Canada with only a few months or less before the PR card expired. Overall, it appeared that PRs had fairly good odds of not getting reported at the border UNLESS it was fairly obvious they had EGREGIOUSLY breached the RO.

And back then, as best I recall, the reported IAD decisions (regarding PR RO cases) were mostly about appeals from Visa Office decisions denying a PR TD. At a glance, this has not been the pattern in the last two years. PoE enforcement appears to have been increased significantly.

Thus, while it appears to me that @armoured is more accurately describing the odds for someone NOW (in the wake of covid) arriving within a few weeks or months of the third year anniversary of their landing, but already in breach of the RO, overall the trend tends to be in the direction of what @IndianBos describes:

(Most likely) Since you are only a few days short on residency obligation, you will be sent to secondary review. They will ask you a lot of questions about your intent to settle in Canada
 
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armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,276
8,887
Thus, while it appears to me that @armoured is more accurately describing the odds for someone NOW (in the wake of covid) arriving within a few weeks or months of the third year anniversary of their landing, but already in breach of the RO, overall the trend tends to be in the direction of what @IndianBos describes:
I agree, and I was not attempting to make any estimation of the likelihood of getting waved through at primary vs being sent to secondary, just that it is a possibility.

Further, and partly my point, agree and would emphasize that being waved through primary inspection does not necessarily mean no flag on the file (at least as far as aware, and certainly would not rely on that).

Certainly what applies in current covid times may not in future.
 

tejas_t55

Member
Dec 20, 2015
12
0
Hi,
I got PR status in 2017 but so far I only spent 100days in Canada.
I computed that I could only meet 729 days out of 730 days (as of today).

Let's say if I try to go back to Canada this week (from Europe), I would be less than a week short, what are the odds that my PR is cancelled ?
I am single, in my early 40s and no job waiting for me (even if I know that would not be a problem to find one).
I don't have any serious reason why I was abroad except that I had hard time to quit my job, got a few family members getting sick (but I have no proof) and lately the covid19 really made me hesitate.
I guess nobody will be able to say.
Also is there an entry point/airport where the likelihood of having an indulgent immigration officer is greater ?
Hi @benstirlag ,
Hope finally you could have landed safely.
Please share your experience so as it can be helpful to all of us who going to face same situation.
Thanks n regards
Tejas
 

benstirlag

Newbie
Oct 11, 2020
7
0
Hi @benstirlag ,
Hope finally you could have landed safely.
Please share your experience so as it can be helpful to all of us who going to face same situation.
Thanks n regards
Tejas
Yes sorry I did not go. I still have a job (not so bad) to quit where I live and was really hesitant to leave and quit remotely.
Because if my PR is revoked, I would still have to stay at least 2 weeks there because of the quarantine which means I could lose my job... so loosing on both sides..

Now I am 7 weeks short for the PR obligations so I think it is over. I think I will renounce and re-apply.