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[armoured]

Here is the relevant page on assessing common law relationships:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/non-economic-classes/family-class-determining-spouse/assessing-common.html

Maddeningly the main relevant section is very short: "Two people who are cohabiting have combined their affairs and set up their household together in one dwelling. To be considered common-law partners, they must have cohabited for at least one year. This is the standard definition used across the federal government. It means continuous cohabitation for one year, not intermittent cohabitation adding up to one year."

On the other hand, this reference to 'standard definition used across the federal government' provides an opening that since this is used across federal government, there is or should be relevant case law and admin practices and some level of uniformity or consistency in treatment. In other words, if you can find any basis to say that this evaluation (refusal) seems to be obviously inconsistent with levels of evidence and "householdness", you have a better chance of a positive reconsideration. (This is a narrow area where a lawyer may be able to help provide specific language in request for reconsideration and/or appeal, that the level of inconsistency is in spirit entirely at odds with "the standard definition and practice across the federal government.")

 

[armoured]

Sorry, one additional point that I should have mentioned earlier: keep in mind in all communications, through MP, direct, mail, lawyer involved, etc, that the goal of requesting reconsideration, telling them you will appeal, threatening appeal, filing for the appeal, is not just to win the appeal.

In any such case you also want and hope (prefer actually) that the other side will at some point reconsider both the original decision and the cost and time involved to them and hopefully change their original decision without going through the full appeal process.

It's expensive and time consuming and a hassle for all staff involved; managers have to deal with the process, and they have to provide documentation, and check their notes and the files again. There is a possibility this potential long-term cost and hassle will get them to change their minds, even if in part just to reduce burden. No-one benefits from the appeal process.

It's a little like (in private life) threatening to sue and/or filing papers to start a civil suit; sometimes (a lot of the time) the point of the suit is not to go to court but to get the other side to think carefully and compromise before it gets to court. (Okay, it's different in lots of ways, for example compared to an individual or a company the resources are not limited in the same way, but I still guarantee IRCC doesn't want to spend the time and resources on cases that they're going to lose or might lose or will win but won't change anything because you'll apply again with a marriage certificate and get admitted anyway)

Again, this is an area where speaking to a lawyer may help, and possibly getting them to help you with writing a letter (whether from the lawyer or just getting input on what language to include in a letter). Sometimes hiring a lawyer to write or help write a sufficiently strong letter with the correct terminology (trigger words if you like) can send a really strong message that will make them think twice, like noting that the refusal seems "arbitrary and capricious."

Obviously some lawyers may not want to take on just piecemeal tasks like this, but you don't necessarily have to have a lawyer for the whole appeal process (lots of applicants do seem to appeal without lawyers), and you can drop the appeal at any time if you decide to later. (My own gut feeling on this is lawyers will help with really complex cases or where there are procedural/legal issues - but in cases where it was really just a judgment call/opinion of the reviewing officer, when it gets to dispute resolution/actual appeal and they'll review the credibility of the file, a lawyer is mostly going to give advice on how to make the file look better, and perhaps not worth the expense)

Sorry I've written a lot to absorb, hope some of this helps in some way.

 

[passenger19]

I’m so grateful for your help, dear @armoured. I wish I could hug you. I will share your messages with my partner.

 

[armoured]

For anyone hoping to submit to the VFS Global in Moscow (i.e. passports after passport request), I just got off the chat to confirm all I could. Definitely contact them by phone or chat before submitting - the website is a hopeless mess of wrong information and things missing.

Important points (but note all of this info is from online chat, so I have a copy, but beyond that I can't say it is correct, just that this is what we were told):
1) Indeed passports can be submitted only during the current Monday and Wednesday opening hours.

2) The Appendix B information is just wrong, it's not required.

3) The complete list of what is required I am pasting below:
-Passport request letter;
-Passports;
-Two passport-photos for each person above;
-Copy of 1st page of internal passport;
-Copy of receipt from VAC after providing biometrics *;
-TWO different VAC consent forms, which helpfully (/sarcasm/) on the website are both titled consent forms (one is the 'permission for handling of personal information' form common in Russia, the other one has the heading "CONSENT FORM AND TERMS OF USE FOR APPLICANT SERVICES" in English.
-Agency agreement (not available on website, must get from VFS)
-Receipt for payment of courier service return (it's possible you could pay this later, but not certain, and may mean delays).

* If you do not have / cannot find the biometrics receipt, you can pay for the Package Transmission Service - 990 rubles - and attach the payment receipt for that. (I know there is some issue if you paid for Biometrics at Moscow office or some other one, I don't know about that - but basically do not need to pay the Package Transmission Fee if you have the biometrics receipt).

Hope this is helpful, again, they admitted themselves the website is not in good shape. I'd say it's not just in good shape, it's outright wrong.

 

[Mandriva]

@armoured for the first point, that passports can be submitted only during the current Monday and Wednesday opening hours - does it mean that they could be submitted in VFS in person by an applicant during these hours? Or that a courier has to deliver a package only during those hours?

Thank you!

 

[armoured]

@armoured for the first point, that passports can be submitted only during the current Monday and Wednesday opening hours - does it mean that they could be submitted in VFS in person by an applicant during these hours? Or that a courier has to deliver a package only during those hours?

Thank you!

No, also only by courier. I find it odd they'll only accept deliveries on certain hours/days, because after all it's a business centre (with other countries' visa centres run by the same company in the same building), so surely minimal security guard staffing who can sign for deliveries. But the online chat people said only during those specific hours.

Note, the online chat people were clearly not based in or working at the Moscow vfs office, so it's quite likely they are reading from their script (although to be fair did know the doc requirements well). I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they can receive deliveries at any time during normal business hours, but this is what I was told (if anyone can get through on phone would be worth asking).

 

[Bynming]

For anyone hoping to submit to the VFS Global in Moscow (i.e. passports after passport request), I just got off the chat to confirm all I could. Definitely contact them by phone or chat before submitting - the website is a hopeless mess of wrong information and things missing.

Important points (but note all of this info is from online chat, so I have a copy, but beyond that I can't say it is correct, just that this is what we were told):
1) Indeed passports can be submitted only during the current Monday and Wednesday opening hours.

2) The Appendix B information is just wrong, it's not required.

3) The complete list of what is required I am pasting below:
-Passport request letter;
-Passports;
-Two passport-photos for each person above;
-Copy of 1st page of internal passport;
-Copy of receipt from VAC after providing biometrics *;
-TWO different VAC consent forms, which helpfully (/sarcasm/) on the website are both titled consent forms (one is the 'permission for handling of personal information' form common in Russia, the other one has the heading "CONSENT FORM AND TERMS OF USE FOR APPLICANT SERVICES" in English.
-Agency agreement (not available on website, must get from VFS)
-Receipt for payment of courier service return (it's possible you could pay this later, but not certain, and may mean delays).

* If you do not have / cannot find the biometrics receipt, you can pay for the Package Transmission Service - 990 rubles - and attach the payment receipt for that. (I know there is some issue if you paid for Biometrics at Moscow office or some other one, I don't know about that - but basically do not need to pay the Package Transmission Fee if you have the biometrics receipt).

Hope this is helpful, again, they admitted themselves the website is not in good shape. I'd say it's not just in good shape, it's outright wrong.

We've been contacting them quite a few times and for some reason the "Copy of 1st page of internal passport" requirement literally never came up. My wife specifically asked if the list of requested document was complete multiple times and they did not mention it. We'll add that to our list, figuring more is better than not enough.

No, also only by courier. I find it odd they'll only accept deliveries on certain hours/days, because after all it's a business centre (with other countries' visa centres run by the same company in the same building), so surely minimal security guard staffing who can sign for deliveries. But the online chat people said only during those specific hours.

Note, the online chat people were clearly not based in or working at the Moscow vfs office, so it's quite likely they are reading from their script (although to be fair did know the doc requirements well). I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they can receive deliveries at any time during normal business hours, but this is what I was told (if anyone can get through on phone would be worth asking).

How can we ensure that the courier will deliver on those days between those times? Will the Russian post do that correctly if sent express? We've been struggling really hard to get this done because we tried to send payment twice to the bank account listed on the website and they both bounced, before we found out that those bank accounts were wrong and they listed a new one (now the correct one).

 

[armoured]

We've been contacting them quite a few times and for some reason the "Copy of 1st page of internal passport" requirement literally never came up. My wife specifically asked if the list of requested document was complete multiple times and they did not mention it. We'll add that to our list, figuring more is better than not enough.

How can we ensure that the courier will deliver on those days between those times? Will the Russian post do that correctly if sent express? We've been struggling really hard to get this done because we tried to send payment twice to the bank account listed on the website and they both bounced, before we found out that those bank accounts were wrong and they listed a new one (now the correct one).

I thought the internal passport copy bit seems dumb and out of place, too - but like you, I'd rather provide that and not have problems; if it turns out not to be needed, so be it.

My understanding from others here (someone posted I think?) is that local courier companies eg Pony Express will deliver within certain time periods. I'll be arranging soon and share the experience.

The issue with the bank account - man, is there nothing this company can do right? Could you share where you got the new/correct bank account info?

 

[Bynming]

No, also only by courier. I find it odd they'll only accept deliveries on certain hours/days, because after all it's a business centre (with other countries' visa centres run by the same company in the same building), so surely minimal security guard staffing who can sign for deliveries. But the online chat people said only during those specific hours.

Note, the online chat people were clearly not based in or working at the Moscow vfs office, so it's quite likely they are reading from their script (although to be fair did know the doc requirements well). I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they can receive deliveries at any time during normal business hours, but this is what I was told (if anyone can get through on phone would be worth asking).

I thought the internal passport copy bit seems dumb and out of place, too - but like you, I'd rather provide that and not have problems; if it turns out not to be needed, so be it.

My understanding from others here (someone posted I think?) is that local courier companies eg Pony Express will deliver within certain time periods. I'll be arranging soon and share the experience.

The issue with the bank account - man, is there nothing this company can do right? Could you share where you got the new/correct bank account info?

Sorry for the confusion, the bank account currently on the website is correct, they updated it a few days ago

 

[armoured]

Sorry for the confusion, the bank account currently on the website is correct, they updated it a few days ago

Thanks. I just realised that it's not clear to me whether the VFS 'handling fee' is per person or per file (i.e. in our case, spouse plus children). Anyone know? Can get on chat later but it's slow.

 

[armoured]

Thanks. I just realised that it's not clear to me whether the VFS 'handling fee' is per person or per file (i.e. in our case, spouse plus children). Anyone know? Can get on chat later but it's slow.

I have checked with VFS and they say the "price per package" (цена за один комплект) is per person. Absurd - it's completely wrong plain meaning of terms in two languages.

I'm seriously considering paying through the nose for DHL or some such company to send it direct to Warsaw as I have zero confidence that these VFS people can figure out how to receive my package and put it in a car to the Embassy in Moscow. It seems that about 90% of the hassle is dealing with the VFS people and their multiple forms and inability to provide simple instructions and not the actual document submission.

 

[armoured]

I have checked with VFS and they say the "price per package" (цена за один комплект) is per person. Absurd - it's completely wrong plain meaning of terms in two languages.

I'm seriously considering paying through the nose for DHL or some such company to send it direct to Warsaw as I have zero confidence that these VFS people can figure out how to receive my package and put it in a car to the Embassy in Moscow. It seems that about 90% of the hassle is dealing with the VFS people and their multiple forms and inability to provide simple instructions and not the actual document submission.

After my morning rant (above) was able to confirm that yes, the fees are per passport (or per applicant). [Usual bureaucratic explanation that their internal use of "package" or "komplekt" is different than, you know, how other people use words. Bureaucracies are like that. Suggested the simple change to per applicant or per passport. We'll see.]

For those with applications in process, I was told that the option of submitting passports directly to the Embassy in Warsaw was a temporary measure (until the VACs re-opened), so while I theoretically could still send direct, not likely relevant any more - at least for Russian applications. Assuming of course all of the parts of IRCC regionally have the same info, which is not always the case.

For anyone submitting, strongly suggest checking directly with VFS before submitting to them - info on website is not reliable.

 

[Bynming]

My wife and I decided yesterday that we were confident enough with the documents list that we managed to build over the course of multiple calls to VFS, so yesterday she shipped it to Moscow's visa center. She used the courier company at https://www.cccb.ru/. She mentioned the office hours of the VAC and they said it was ok. At this point, it's just fingers crossed for us, and we're hoping not to get the ol' bureaucratic curveball.

 

[armoured]

My wife and I decided yesterday that we were confident enough with the documents list that we managed to build over the course of multiple calls to VFS, so yesterday she shipped it to Moscow's visa center. She used the courier company at https://www.cccb.ru/. She mentioned the office hours of the VAC and they said it was ok. At this point, it's just fingers crossed for us, and we're hoping not to get the ol' bureaucratic curveball.

Funny, handed mine over to Pony Express yesterday too. I wish I were more confident VFS will handle this well (although for our cases all they're really doing is sending it across town to the Embassy), but also decided to risk it. The test will be when they check our package and either send straight on or decide something is missing that they didn't mention. Anyway, we're not in a huge rush so it'll work out.

 

[Bynming]

Funny, handed mine over to Pony Express yesterday too. I wish I were more confident VFS will handle this well (although for our cases all they're really doing is sending it across town to the Embassy), but also decided to risk it. The test will be when they check our package and either send straight on or decide something is missing that they didn't mention. Anyway, we're not in a huge rush so it'll work out.

Really eager to see that "Delivered" notice on the tracking on my end. But I agree. I have very, very limited confidence in their processes. We even sent the Appendix B, just in case.