some of us came from war zone countries, some of us are stateless, some of us are waiting for the citizenship to get better job. There is many good strong reasons on why we need progress on the citizenship side, It is not a prestigious thing to delay. It is our life . I am really sad and depressed.
Citizenship test: Collective action required, or expect endless delays, years. Example of the effective lobbyng of people awaiting spousal sponsorship
- Thread starter piotrqc
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Why should we leave? they were born here because their ancestors did not leave. we will be ancestors for our descendants too, we are here to stay.
Do not mind them most of them making such comments are uneducated. We work, pay taxes, and contribute to this beautiful country. Do not let them or their comments impact your mental health, stay strong.
Please forgive me here for assumptions but some people need to keep their nose inside their masks and out of other people's business.
Thank you
Is this aimed at all the criticizing of IRCC personnel in this topic? Are you suggesting that no one here should have anything to say about how IRCC goes about doing their job? That people here should stay out of the IRCC's business and let them figure out how to best do what they have a mandate to do?
To some extent I'd agree. Except sometimes bureaucracies need some prompting, some encouragement. This appears to be such a time. Sometimes other people's business is also one's own business.
Unfortunately the negativity flows both directions all too freely. We have more than a few participants in this forum, this thread, engaging in name-calling, insulting forum participants with whom they disagree, and gratuitously aiming insults at "Canadians" and "Europeans" and government workers generally. One will claim she supports the free speech of forum participants but then abusively engage in name-calling those who express views she does not like; such as calling people who do not favour her approach "parasites," or "egotistical," and with no basis at all, even calling some "racist." Many here are labeling IRCC workers they do not know in a variety of disparaging ways, many one way or another accusing them of being "lazy" or using covid as an "excuse" to not work.
Yes, it is disheartening.
I cannot speak for all Canadians. Would not pretend I could even if I was not an immigrant. And of course I do not speak for all immigrants either.
What's-the-rush versus passport shopping (an attempt to explain how this issue may affect things, not to engage in or invite polemics on the issue):
It also warrants noting there is a conflict of opinions about facilitating the path to citizenship for those who are perceived to be passport shopping, seen to be pursuing Canadian citizenship to obtain a passport-of-convenience. I suspect some of the views expressed here, and elsewhere, such as those in the vein of what's-the-rush, are based on this, which is NOT necessarily anti-immigrant or racist. That said, it appears the view that stridently opposes facilitating the path to citizenship for those who may be passport shopping or otherwise seeking a passport-of-convenience, is more often and more zealously promoted by those who lean Conservative politically, in Canada, among whom more (not all, and it would be grossly unfair to characterize even most of them as such) also appear to be anti-immigrant or even racist.
Despite the overlap, however, this is a separate and distinct view about what Canadian immigration policy should be. Whether one agrees with it or not, strongly one way or the other, many Canadians, not just Conservatives, not just those with anti-immigrant sentiments, are adamantly opposed to allowing the Canadian immigration system to be, in their view, "exploited," by those whose agenda amounts to what is called or considered to be passport shopping or obtaining a passport-of-convenience.
During the last Conservative government's administration, a lot was done to discourage and outright curtail so-called passport shopping. While the succeeding Liberal government rolled back many of those measures, the underlying dynamics and motivation for rolling those measures back were complicated and tangled in collateral issues, and, moreover, even among those who have a strong objection to passport shopping as such, many rightfully saw that much of what the Conservatives under Harper had done was overly-broad and excessive, and needed to be rolled back . . . even though they agreed more generally with curtailing what they consider to be passport shopping.
Which is to say it would be a mistake to overlook or underestimate the influence this view still has, even among many who lean Liberal or NDP. Which, it is really important to not overlook, includes more than a few MPs and other government leaders.
Which is to say hitching one's wagon (yeah, I tend to badly mix metaphors), so to say, to the position that the time line for being granted citizenship should take into consideration that some immigrants need a Canadian passport to facilitate travel or business abroad could be counterproductive -- it could invite or outright incite more opposition than it does support.
While I do not think that persons with conflicting opinions should be characterized as "enemies" or that engaging in social and political activism should be equated with war, nonetheless the famous quote from Sun Tzu, The Art of War, seems rather apropos:
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat."
This has been, largely, an illustration. Perception plays a big role. It is not so much about who is actually passport shopping, but more about who appears to be passport shopping. And then how that can affect the cause . . . in this instance, the cause is the effort to persuade the government to more aggressively address the resumption of citizenship application processing.
Remember, at its core, effecting government action is about influencing people. No advanced degrees in political science necessary to recognize that the first reaction to people making-noise is to consider it a nuisance.
There is no harm in getting smart, approaching problems (including the one at hand) intelligently. The Art of Persuasion, one might say, likewise requires knowing those to be persuaded.
It does not hurt, either, to respect those proffering contrary views. Sure, sometimes there is an underlying negative prejudice at play, and then merely butting heads is inevitable. And some venues are simply too bogged down in diatribes of negativity to bother with (such as the comment sections in media articles about immigration typically tend to be).
Many times, however, there is a sincere, genuine difference of opinion about some aspect of the issue. Rudely insulting the person who expresses a contrary opinion will not advance one's case. It will more likely tarnish it. It is far more prudent to make the effort to understand one's adversary, and deal with the substantive elements in dispute . . . or, again, as Sun Tzu put it, know your enemy.
In particular, in the context of this particular issue, be aware that clamoring for citizenship based on needing a Canadian passport to go abroad or do business abroad (notwithstanding the real world, highly mobile international complexity of business in today's world) risks pushing some negative buttons related to opposing the exploitation of Canada's immigration system. I am NOT at all suggesting this is how it should be. But no great insight necessary to recognize this is in play. And is probably what lurks behind most of the what's-the-rush observations.
To my view, the issue is not about being in a rush at all. It is about the government timely doing its job. Citizenship testing has already been delayed six months now. Even if testing resumes by the first of October, it is not likely to resume at the pace it was being done six months ago. So the net delay will for sure go longer than six months, at least for most. It is time for the government to figure out how to do what the law mandates it do, notwithstanding the difficulties imposed by Covid-19.
For those personally affected by this, time to be smart, not get distracted, focus first on making those decisions which will help you navigate your way through this, recognizing and handling the inevitable delays. And then, look for ways to have some POSITIVE, PRODUCTIVE influence. Sometimes small efforts are enough. They add up. Some can and should do more. This is not going to be resolved tomorrow. This is going to take awhile.
No, this is aimed at people who are not affected by any way with the citizenship applications delays and yet they come here, put up with reading long essays and take the time to write comments just to belittle the suffering of others and suggest that they should just "live with it".
Here is why I don't want to wait 2+ years for citizenship:
My parents are old and getting weaker. I want the flexibility in life to be able to leave Canada for a few years and take care of them. They aren't sick or dying right now, so I cannot request urgent processing or anything like that. Even if I do request urgent processing, they are not going to bypass the test, which looks like might not be held until 2022.
You might say - Oh if it happens, just request an exemption to PR residence obligation etc. Well, who knows which government will be in power then. If it resembles the government in the US, they might not accept such requests. Trump banned entry of green card holders from countries he didnt like and several of the conservatives here remind me of Trump.
If any year has shown that anything can happen, it's 2020. You are delusional if you say - nothing wrong will happen, probability is low.
Those who think that long delays are no big deal are delusional and are preparing for the best case scenario.
To those who think I expect immediate results - just stop beating that strawman. I know that unless I pressure MPs, IRCC, I will wait 5+ years for citizenship. A vaccine is not a 100% guarantee. If I sign petitions, write to MPs, and it all goes to waste, then so be it! At least I tried!
There is no downside to making noise. IRCC is not reading this forum and throwing a hissy fit, promising not to work until we stop saying mean things about them.
My parents are old and getting weaker. I want the flexibility in life to be able to leave Canada for a few years and take care of them. They aren't sick or dying right now, so I cannot request urgent processing or anything like that. Even if I do request urgent processing, they are not going to bypass the test, which looks like might not be held until 2022.
You might say - Oh if it happens, just request an exemption to PR residence obligation etc. Well, who knows which government will be in power then. If it resembles the government in the US, they might not accept such requests. Trump banned entry of green card holders from countries he didnt like and several of the conservatives here remind me of Trump.
If any year has shown that anything can happen, it's 2020. You are delusional if you say - nothing wrong will happen, probability is low.
Those who think that long delays are no big deal are delusional and are preparing for the best case scenario.
To those who think I expect immediate results - just stop beating that strawman. I know that unless I pressure MPs, IRCC, I will wait 5+ years for citizenship. A vaccine is not a 100% guarantee. If I sign petitions, write to MPs, and it all goes to waste, then so be it! At least I tried!
There is no downside to making noise. IRCC is not reading this forum and throwing a hissy fit, promising not to work until we stop saying mean things about them.
I believe that we must cease to give justifications to the parasitic people, not concerned, bads, or simply racists ...
We have the right to express ourselves, the charter of rights and freedoms guarantees us that. End of story.
You have to focus on what is important ...
In short, to return to the subject: I think the press is only a first step (The interest of the CBC article for example, is that those who want to contact their local parliamentarian can insert it into the text, to illustrate the situation).
Given the growing xenophobic dissension, and the visibility of the conservatives (And the serious risk that a majority Conservative government will send us back our candidatures, or worse, no longer allow permanent residents to enter Canada and leave them blocked outside) , I'm starting to think the situation is critical.
Contacting our local parliamentarians, the press, and IRCC is all good, but it may not be enough.
We have to talk about simultaneous sittings in front of several IRCC CIC offices in several cities. If I remember correctly it was done on a Saturday.
I think it will be smart to gather some information before issuing such invitations to people in the same boat as us, a call to protest through social media for example.
Some relevant questions:
- Were the pending spousal sponsorships released on a Saturday? What time approximately, morning or afternoon? Maybe find the calls for demonstrations in the social media for inspiration?
- In front of which IRCC offices in which cities did they do their sittings?
I think we have to be smart, and not give the xenophobes a chance to attack us. The power of the media matters:
If ever these sittings are done, we must especially not talk about our personal justifications for having citizenship.
Simply say that we love this beautiful country, where we work, pay taxes, and have our children (many Canadians by birth), and that we would like to be Canadian to fully participate in Canadian society.
... You have to be VERY CAREFUL of every word you say, so as not to give the oppirtuniter to racists to say that it is not a priority.
I think it would be very smart to do the sitting with Canadian flags, and slogans that show our love for this country ...
We must not give any opportunity to the racists of Nosu to illustrate as opportunists.
Becoming Canadian and loving this country is something noble ... No one can blame you for that ...
Do not despair, we must not let go!
note: Do not watch out for parasites, please ... ignore them!
We have the right to express ourselves, the charter of rights and freedoms guarantees us that. End of story.
You have to focus on what is important ...
In short, to return to the subject: I think the press is only a first step (The interest of the CBC article for example, is that those who want to contact their local parliamentarian can insert it into the text, to illustrate the situation).
Given the growing xenophobic dissension, and the visibility of the conservatives (And the serious risk that a majority Conservative government will send us back our candidatures, or worse, no longer allow permanent residents to enter Canada and leave them blocked outside) , I'm starting to think the situation is critical.
Contacting our local parliamentarians, the press, and IRCC is all good, but it may not be enough.
We have to talk about simultaneous sittings in front of several IRCC CIC offices in several cities. If I remember correctly it was done on a Saturday.
I think it will be smart to gather some information before issuing such invitations to people in the same boat as us, a call to protest through social media for example.
Some relevant questions:
- Were the pending spousal sponsorships released on a Saturday? What time approximately, morning or afternoon? Maybe find the calls for demonstrations in the social media for inspiration?
- In front of which IRCC offices in which cities did they do their sittings?
I think we have to be smart, and not give the xenophobes a chance to attack us. The power of the media matters:
If ever these sittings are done, we must especially not talk about our personal justifications for having citizenship.
Simply say that we love this beautiful country, where we work, pay taxes, and have our children (many Canadians by birth), and that we would like to be Canadian to fully participate in Canadian society.
... You have to be VERY CAREFUL of every word you say, so as not to give the oppirtuniter to racists to say that it is not a priority.
I think it would be very smart to do the sitting with Canadian flags, and slogans that show our love for this country ...
We must not give any opportunity to the racists of Nosu to illustrate as opportunists.
Becoming Canadian and loving this country is something noble ... No one can blame you for that ...
Do not despair, we must not let go!
note: Do not watch out for parasites, please ... ignore them!
I agree with you. But IMO, the public face of such a campaign has to be mostly European immigrants (or at least white passing). Otherwise we can expect the same reaction as that CBC article got.
sachinsoman1988
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Seems like a war going on here.. At the very least, we can ask: Would the government still keep the 12 month processing window? If not, what are we looking at? The lack of information is the issue here and is the reason of panic. We are not at a concern level for government processing citizenship applications. 99% of us will not have their life impacted without getting citizenship
Any source for this or is it just your 'feeling'? If citizenship makes 0 difference, then why do so many pay the $1500+ for a family and apply? Do you often spend $1500 on something that makes no difference to you?
I doubts this will happen. we need to keep positive attitude. There is very slow progress .
We need to see some light at the end of the tunnel . currently we have zero visibility on when our applications can be processed , when we will take the exams.
I must disagree here. As Depenabill pointed out, know your enemy.
A brain of a typical conservative is not wired that way. You may believe that if you showcase "European" immigrants, they will become more lenient and compassionate to newcomers as a group. This is not true. Instead, they will search further how these immigrants are different and threatening.
Bringing up hardships of the underprivileged people will more likely earn support of those who tend to be compassionate to begin with.
This world is becoming hell because of such people. Who just assume and assume!!!
Assume that 99% people are not affected
Assume that there is no violence going against Blacks
Assume that one is suffering because they deserve
Assume that by writing big essays they can justify the pain
Assume Assume and Assume
If anyone body has problem with our motion of raising the voice for Citizenship, just don't visit the link. A BIG THANK YOU FOR THAT
But please don't assume and keep your assumptions with you! AGAIN THANK YOU!
I do know the enemy. Have you seen the tweets (and replies) of Conservative leaders lately? They are criticizing the govt for not allowing a white American family to visit their ailing relative in Canada. Not one negative comment in anything related to those demands.
Now imagine if an African family was in the news for wanting to visit their family. You dont even have to imagine, just search on anything related to non white immigrants (or even Canadians).
I know the enemy very well. More than most. I have actually joined some of these alt right parties just to see what they are up to and what they are planning against me. I wont reveal all my findings and tactics here. But don't think I dont know these people.
A typical conservative hates the govt and govt workers and agrees that they need to be more efficient.....until brown immigrants are bearing the brunt of this inefficiency. Then they suddenly become govt worker supporters. Race trumps all their beliefs. If they see European immigrants suffering, they will be onside - or at least not actively block efforts.
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