Do I need a PCC from US?

[nskatcv]

Facts:

Country of Birth and Current Citizenship: INDIA
Country from where PR applied: USA (lived there since 2007)
PR received: Jan 2016 (gave US PCC with that application)
Moved back to US after soft-landing and actually moved to Canada in May 2017 (total US stay after becoming PR = 16 months)

Now, applying for citizenship. The guide says,

You need to provide a police certificate from each country, other than Canada, if you were there

• in the past 4 years
• for 183 days or more in a row

1. If I apply now, say 1 Sep, 2020, four years back is 1 Sep 2016. As I was living in US during that time, till 1 May 2017, my stay in US comes out as 7 months (more than 183 days), so I am concluding I need to submit another PCC from US for that time. Correct?

2. If I just wait for a month or two, and then submit my Citizenship application, my time of stay in US for the period of last 4 years will drop to below 183 days. Will I then NOT have to submit a US PCC, even if my total stay was more than a year (from Jan 2016 - May 2017). I would assume so, because technically they should only look at last 4 years from application date, but I will still be submitting my total previous travel history. So what is your take on this?

3. I could be pro-active and just submit a US PCC right now with the application if it were not for Covid and restricted travel (not included in essential services, just called Port of Entry and confirmed).

Lastly, would you guys suggest that waiting for a month or two shall suffice and I can get away from submitting PCC, OR I shall just submit the application now and spend that time in procuring the PCC later.

Thanks for reading this and would appreciate any help.

 

[s23srinivas]

Facts:

Country of Birth and Current Citizenship: INDIA
Country from where PR applied: USA (lived there since 2007)
PR received: Jan 2016 (gave US PCC with that application)
Moved back to US after soft-landing and actually moved to Canada in May 2017 (total US stay after becoming PR = 16 months)

Now, applying for citizenship. The guide says,


1. If I apply now, say 1 Sep, 2020, four years back is 1 Sep 2016. As I was living in US during that time, till 1 May 2017, my stay in US comes out as 7 months (more than 183 days), so I am concluding I need to submit another PCC from US for that time. Correct?

2. If I just wait for a month or two, and then submit my Citizenship application, my time of stay in US for the period of last 4 years will drop to below 183 days. Will I then NOT have to submit a US PCC, even if my total stay was more than a year (from Jan 2016 - May 2017). I would assume so, because technically they should only look at last 4 years from application date, but I will still be submitting my total previous travel history. So what is your take on this?

3. I could be pro-active and just submit a US PCC right now with the application if it were not for Covid and restricted travel (not included in essential services, just called Port of Entry and confirmed).

Lastly, would you guys suggest that waiting for a month or two shall suffice and I can get away from submitting PCC, OR I shall just submit the application now and spend that time in procuring the PCC later.

Thanks for reading this and would appreciate any help.

I would suggest to wait for few months to overcome the US period of stay > 183 days clause so that you can avoid procuring and providing the US PCC.
Just to make it simpler for everyone involved in the citizenship process as such being a PR you are enjoying almost the same benefits as a citizen.

But if you think you cannot stay without applying for the citizenship now and have a lot of patience, then feel free to apply now and initiate the process. But be prepared to get anxious and frustrated as everything has slowed down and getting the PCC from the US will add to your wait time.

 

[harirajmohan]

Facts:

Country of Birth and Current Citizenship: INDIA
Country from where PR applied: USA (lived there since 2007)
PR received: Jan 2016 (gave US PCC with that application)
Moved back to US after soft-landing and actually moved to Canada in May 2017 (total US stay after becoming PR = 16 months)

Now, applying for citizenship. The guide says,


1. If I apply now, say 1 Sep, 2020, four years back is 1 Sep 2016. As I was living in US during that time, till 1 May 2017, my stay in US comes out as 7 months (more than 183 days), so I am concluding I need to submit another PCC from US for that time. Correct?

2. If I just wait for a month or two, and then submit my Citizenship application, my time of stay in US for the period of last 4 years will drop to below 183 days. Will I then NOT have to submit a US PCC, even if my total stay was more than a year (from Jan 2016 - May 2017). I would assume so, because technically they should only look at last 4 years from application date, but I will still be submitting my total previous travel history. So what is your take on this?

3. I could be pro-active and just submit a US PCC right now with the application if it were not for Covid and restricted travel (not included in essential services, just called Port of Entry and confirmed).

Lastly, would you guys suggest that waiting for a month or two shall suffice and I can get away from submitting PCC, OR I shall just submit the application now and spend that time in procuring the PCC later.

Thanks for reading this and would appreciate any help.

We have similar timeline in qualifying for citizenship. I applied for US pcc in Jan and sent citizenship application but could not get pcc for my wife on time as lockdown surprise came in Mar. So I sent the application for my wife using the below exemption because we were planning to get the pcc in May but later thought it would be delayed to get pcc by post.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-0002-application-canadian-citizenship-under-subsection-5-1-adults-18-years-older.html
"You don’t need to provide a police certificate if

• you were in your country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada, and
• this time falls within the past 4 years"

You can use above exemption for the time being and send pcc later if asked (get one by the meantime). Mostly usps would have delay with the current issues with usps and possibly at canadapost too (but no one knows) but waiting for it would be risk. As you have option to apply, you can apply as soon as you qualify.

 

[Das67]

We have similar timeline in qualifying for citizenship. I applied for US pcc in Jan and sent citizenship application but could not get pcc for my wife on time as lockdown surprise came in Mar. So I sent the application for my wife using the below exemption because we were planning to get the pcc in May but later thought it would be delayed to get pcc by post:
You don’t need to provide a police certificate if

• you were in your country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada, and
• this time falls within the past 4 years

You can use above exemption for the time being and send pcc later if asked (get one by the meantime). Mostly usps would have delay with the current issues with usps and possibly at canadapost too (but no one knows) but waiting for it would be risk. As you have option to apply, you can apply as soon as you qualify.

If you send your application without a PCC when in fact you need one, IRCC will send your application back as incomplete. They won't ask you to submit it later , they will return it as incomplete.

 

[harirajmohan]

If you send your application without a PCC when in fact you need one, IRCC will send your application back as incomplete. They won't ask you to submit it later , they will return it as incomplete.

Correct but in his/her(or my) case its not needed due to available exemption (given in the instructions).

 

[Das67]

Correct but in his/her(or my) case its not needed due to available exemption (given in the instructions).

My answer was according to your suggestion below:
You can use the above exemption for the time being and send pcc later if asked (get one by the meantime). Mostly usps would have delay with the current issues with usps and possibly at canadapost too (but no one knows) but waiting for it would be risk. As you have option to apply, you can apply as soon as you qualify.
If the OP applies now he will need a PCC and the exemption won't apply to him/her. He can't send his application without it and add it later. This won't work, he/she can use option 2.

 

[harirajmohan]

My answer was according to your suggestion below:
You can use the above exemption for the time being and send pcc later if asked (get one by the meantime). Mostly usps would have delay with the current issues with usps and possibly at canadapost too (but no one knows) but waiting for it would be risk. As you have option to apply, you can apply as soon as you qualify.
If the OP applies now he will need a PCC and the exemption won't apply to him/her. He can't send his application without it and add it later. This won't work, he/she can use option 2.

OP was in US while applied for PR(prior to PR status) hence exempt from pcc. i am not sure why you say pcc is needed for US. How the exemption wont apply?

 

[nskatcv]

Thanks @s23srinivas for the suggestion.

And thanks @Das67 and @harirajmohan for pointing towards the 'country of origin' exemption.

I am also not sure whether this exemption applies to me or not.

 

[Das67]

OP was in US while applied for PR(prior to PR status) hence exempt from pcc. i am not sure why you say pcc is needed for US. How the exemption wont apply?

Read his post again carefully, he landed here in Jan 2016 then went back to the USA again until May 2017 ( more than 6 months ) the PCC he used during his pr application is irrelevant for citizenship as he moved back to the USA for more than six months again. If the OP did not move back to the USA after landed here in Jan 2016 still today then yes he does not need one. He spent 16 months in the USA after becoming PR. in his case Exemption does not apply as he landed and moved back to the USA for more than six months, that is why he needs a brand new PCC.

 

[nskatcv]

Read his post again carefully, he landed here in Jan 2016 then went back to the USA again until May 2017 ( more than 6 months ) the PCC he used during his pr application is irrelevant for citizenship as he moved back to the USA for more than six months again. If the OP did not move back to the USA after landed here in Jan 2016 still today then yes he does not need one. He spent 16 months in the USA after becoming PR. in his case Exemption does not apply as he landed and moved back to the USA for more than six months, that is why he needs a brand new PCC.

I have also been thinking on these lines. So, although if I wait for a couple of months, I would technically get away from the 183 days outside Canada requirement for the last 4 years, but as my actual stay is a long continuous one beyond those 4 years, do you think CIC may still ask for a US PCC.

I assume they should not, otherwise why would they have a rule specifying exact number of 183 and a cut-off of 4 years. But who knows.

Nevertheless, I sense you also suggest (as did s23srinivas) that I should wait until I am out of this 183 day condition?

 

[Das67]

I have also been thinking on these lines. So, although if I wait for a couple of months, I would technically get away from the 183 days outside Canada requirement for the last 4 years, but as my actual stay is a long continuous one beyond those 4 years, do you think CIC may still ask for a US PCC.

I assume they should not, otherwise why would they have a rule specifying exact number of 183 and a cut-off of 4 years. But who knows.

Nevertheless, I sense you also suggest (as did s23srinivas) that I should wait until I am out of this 183-day condition?

Who knows who will review your application? I mean technically no, IRCC should not ask for a PCC if you submit your application with less than 183 days in the USA for the last 4 years. But I cannot say for sure they won't, as confusion can lead them to ask for one.

 

[harirajmohan]

Read his post again carefully, he landed here in Jan 2016 then went back to the USA again until May 2017 ( more than 6 months ) the PCC he used during his pr application is irrelevant for citizenship as he moved back to the USA for more than six months again. If the OP did not move back to the USA after landed here in Jan 2016 still today then yes he does not need one. He spent 16 months in the USA after becoming PR. in his case Exemption does not apply as he landed and moved back to the USA for more than six months, that is why he needs a brand new PCC.

I dont know how it would make difference when they said origin country or no detail on it. Either way i have one application sent in May, i will know the result on it in 4-6 weeks. Will post if its accepted or not.

 

[Nick1233]

I dont know how it would make difference when they said origin country or no detail on it. Either way i have one application sent in May, i will know the result on it in 4-6 weeks. Will post if its accepted or not.

Because, things could have changed since the original landing. What if there was a new criminal record in that 16 months post PR?

 

[Das67]

I dont know how it would make difference when they said origin country or no detail on it. Either way i have one application sent in May, i will know the result on it in 4-6 weeks. Will post if its accepted.

From the application Question 10 b) In the past four (4) years, were you in a country or territory other than Canada for 183 days or more in a row?
if yes then the exemption is noted below:
If you were in your country or territory of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada and this time falls within this four (4) year period, you are not required to provide a police certificate.

This exemption applies if since you landed as pr in Canada and did not go back to your country or territory of origin where you applied for your PR for more than 183 days or more in a row for the last 4 years.
Common sense, IRCC should already have your PCC from that country when you applied for your pr as you did not go back there for more than 183 days in the row the same PCC is still valid. But still, common sense if you went back after landing to the same country you applied for your pr and spent more than 183 days in a row you may have commit crime or other illegal stuff, that is why you need to provide a new PCC. The application note said immediately prior to becoming a PR and landing. If you went back there and come back here this is no more immediately prior to becoming a PR and landing.

 

[harirajmohan]

Because, things could have changed since the original landing. What if there was a new criminal record in that 16 months post PR?

This exemption applies if since you landed as pr in Canada and did not go back to your country or territory of origin where you applied for your PR for more than 183 days or more in a row for the last 4 years.
Common sense, IRCC should already have your PCC from that country when you applied for your pr as you did not go back there for more than 183 days in the row the same PCC is still valid. But still, common sense if you went back after landing to the same country you applied for your pr and spent more than 183 days in a row you may have commit crime or other illegal stuff, that is why you need to provide a new PCC. The application note said immediately prior to becoming a PR and landing. If you went back there and come back here this is no more immediately prior to becoming a PR and landing.

Technically they should be asking for all period after submission of PR application because (in my case)submitting PR application in 2015 with pcc and its approved in 2016 and landing/moving in 2016 would anyway have any crimes from 2015. So having exemption till landing will have same problem which cant be prevented just because one doesnt go back after landing.

Will see what happens to my May application in few weeks if your interpretation is correct or mine.