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PR Card & Tax Filing

cjanssen

Full Member
Mar 22, 2015
39
0
Hello,

My wife (From Denmark) moved to Canada with me in 2014 and received her PR card in 2018. To start the year in 2019 she needed to move back to Denmark for family reasons and now has an address and fulltime job there.

Quick question - Since she did not live or work in Canada during 2019 does she still need to file her taxes in Canada since she still has a valid PR card?

Additionally, we are aware of the requirements to sustain the PR status and have heard that days still count if she is with me (a Canadian Citizen). Would these days still count if I became a Danish resident?

I appreciate all the helpful advice on the forum.

Kind Regards,
 

devnill

Hero Member
Dec 5, 2015
256
43

ITmanEU

Full Member
Feb 21, 2020
49
1
The only concern I would have is how soon did your wife leave Canada after getting PR?
Why would that be a concern? Or is your point only in respect to the issue: days outside Canada counted toward RO?
 

ITmanEU

Full Member
Feb 21, 2020
49
1
I have the following question in regard to tax filling.
In case you fill in your tax return while you are not supposed to (no tax resident). Is it wrong? Could there be adverse consequences?
The case here is zero income so I would do not mind just send the tax return as it makes zero difference financially wise, and avoid the hassle or filling extra form to ask CRA my exact status.
Can someone provide me with some pointers?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
Hello,

My wife (From Denmark) moved to Canada with me in 2014 and received her PR card in 2018. To start the year in 2019 she needed to move back to Denmark for family reasons and now has an address and fulltime job there.

Quick question - Since she did not live or work in Canada during 2019 does she still need to file her taxes in Canada since she still has a valid PR card?

Additionally, we are aware of the requirements to sustain the PR status and have heard that days still count if she is with me (a Canadian Citizen). Would these days still count if I became a Danish resident?

I appreciate all the helpful advice on the forum.

Kind Regards,
I concur with the observations offered by @devnill

Am responding to emphasize some things:

Foremost, for the most part immigration status is minimally relevant in determining whether an individual is a resident for tax purposes. In particular:

"Since she did not live or work in Canada during 2019 does she still need to file her taxes in Canada since she still has a valid PR card?"​

NO. Just the fact a person is a PR (which a PR is even if the PR does NOT have a valid PR card), or just because the person has a valid PR card, does NOT, not alone, mean they are a resident of Canada for tax purposes. Status can be one of many factors in more complicated, close-call situations, but generally other factors are more important. See information at the link posted by @devnill

Remember, in some situations non-residents may still need to file a Canadian tax return. For example, any Canadian source income (not just employment income) usually triggers the requirement to file a Canadian return. A spouse's application for certain credits or benefits may trigger the need to file a return even though the individual is a non-resident.

Secondly, this forum is a notoriously UNRELIABLE source of information about Canadian tax questions. Unfortunately. Other than, again, the information provided online by CRA, as linked by @devnill, I cannot suggest a reputable, reliable source of information about Canadian tax questions, but I am confident there are some.



Concern About PR Leaving Canada:

The only concern I would have is how soon did your wife leave Canada after getting PR?
Why would that be a concern? Or is your point only in respect to the issue: days outside Canada counted toward RO?
I do not mean to speak for @devnill, but that "concern" was explicitly in reference to ". . . counting days outside of Canada for RO . . . " and, moreover, obviously in the context of getting credit toward RO compliance for time abroad accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse.

This concern probably relates to a somewhat recent increase in cases where a PR abroad living with a Canadian citizen spouse is denied the credit because it is determined the PR was NOT accompanying the citizen spouse, but rather the citizen spouse was accompanying the PR abroad. This is the who-accompanied-whom issue. This is addressed in-depth in other topics here.

This should not be an issue for a couple who were well established in a residence, together, in Canada, before either went abroad, and they moved abroad together or at least close in time (regardless who went first). BUT this is an issue PRs abroad should be sure to stay current about, as how Canada approaches such matters as this can change more quickly than the statutory provisions change (the statutory provisions themselves can also change, but that takes significantly more time and there is generally more news about it happening).

I have the following question in regard to tax filling.
In case you fill in your tax return while you are not supposed to (no tax resident). Is it wrong? Could there be adverse consequences?
The case here is zero income so I would do not mind just send the tax return as it makes zero difference financially wise, and avoid the hassle or filling extra form to ask CRA my exact status.
Can someone provide me with some pointers?
Note: better to post your own queries in your own topic unless it more or less directly derives from the discussion. Especially for recently created topics posing a query, in which the OP deserves time to see what responses the OP's query generates.

Moreover, again, this forum is a notoriously unreliable source of information about Canadian tax issues. Except the most obvious, no-doubt-at-all matters, and even then a link to the CRA website is typically the best thing to offer, as @devnill provided here.

That said, as long as ALL the information provided is accurate and complete, and ALL the required and correct forms are used and correctly completed, unnecessarily filing a return should NOT trigger any adverse consequences. The conditional here, however, may be trickier than you apprehend. Remember, there is a difference in filing a return as a "resident" for tax purposes versus filing a non-resident return. And the filer still needs to get this right. Thus, AGAIN, better to do due diligence researching the CRA website and otherwise find sources OTHER THAN this FORUM to find more information or suggestions regarding Canadian tax matters.
 

ITmanEU

Full Member
Feb 21, 2020
49
1
Thanks for your response, one more question before I clear the way for OP to sees his own response.
My income is zero does the conditional you mention remain trickier after this point reinstated?
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,589
13,521
Hello,

My wife (From Denmark) moved to Canada with me in 2014 and received her PR card in 2018. To start the year in 2019 she needed to move back to Denmark for family reasons and now has an address and fulltime job there.

Quick question - Since she did not live or work in Canada during 2019 does she still need to file her taxes in Canada since she still has a valid PR card?

Additionally, we are aware of the requirements to sustain the PR status and have heard that days still count if she is with me (a Canadian Citizen). Would these days still count if I became a Danish resident?

I appreciate all the helpful advice on the forum.

Kind Regards,
If her spouse and is still living in Canada and if she has residential ties there is a decent chance she is still ad tax resident and you’ll need to file taxes in both countries based on the tax treaty between the 2 countries. She should contact CRA to determine her tax residency status.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
My income is zero does the conditional you mention remain trickier after this point reinstated?
I don't think I minced words: this is NOT a reliable forum for sorting out tax issues. Really. No matter how confidently an answer about a tax question is answered in this forum, IT SHOULD NOT BE TRUSTED . . . unless you can find and verify that answer in an official or authoritative source, in which event that is not relying on what was posted here.

Or the answer is obvious. That is, sure, some questions are easy: living in Canada and employed, yeah, obligated to file a return. (Believe it or not, in the past this and similar forums have been host to rather heated dispute regarding this, more than a few zealously advocating no obligation to file a return if one's employer has withheld and paid to CRA all the taxes the individual might owe; not how it works. Just a sample of how far off this forum can be regarding tax matters.)

As for what is tricky, obviously things are a lot trickier for some and not so much for some others. It is relative. Among the factors are the individual's own experience, background, knowledge, and so on. As well as all the variable circumstances in the individual case.

Here's the rub: if it is simply about a null return, no income, no tax obligation, no credits, no benefits, no offsets, no losses, no carry-over, and so on, then it makes no sense for a non-resident to file a return if the non-resident otherwise has no obligation to file a return. As soon as any of those things is implicated, it gets more complicated. And of course for anyone resident or potentially a "deemed" resident for tax purposes, or anyone with a spouse or dependent who is a resident or potentially a "deemed" resident, or potentially obligated otherwise to file a return as a non-resident, one or more of these things is implicated.

That is taxes can be a lot more complex than simply accounting for earned income.

Those of us who do our own taxes generally rely a great deal on building a knowledge base related to our own personal situations.

For example, I believe I have figured out how to do my returns, including the requirements, including nuances and the nooks and crannies, for myself, after having been self-employed most of the last FIFTY years (I am an old man and been around the block a few times), and having solely engaged in precisely the same business I am now for a full TWO decades, including filing Canadian returns since migrating my business to Canada well over a decade ago. This or that changes from year to year, but so far the changes (such as moving my business to Canada) have not required me to go too far beyond my personal knowledge base, about MY OWN tax filings (which I have had to do in multiple countries for some time now), which I have built up over the years. An occasional professional consultation here and there (and some years in the past I have relied entirely on a professional accountant), along with help from the software company I now use, and of course the CRA information, has enabled me to adapt and keep up . . . that is what I HOPE, anyway, but a big part of this depends on the nature of what I do and my business. In later life I have managed to keep things fairly simple. That said, if I had to start from scratch doing a tax return, even as simple as I have kept things it would be a lot more tangled than I dare sort out, so I would be back as a client with a professional without hesitation, crying a bit about the fees, while understanding big odds I'd be crying a lot more if didn't.

That said, I also do my spouse's tax return. But it is very simple. One employer. Specific retirement income sources. Simply structured investments. No dependents. No special circumstances. Same same year after year, only the numbers change. Out-of-the-box software program suffices. Not always easily, but within a range we can figure out.

. . . but a key thing I have learned along the way is that reliable tax advice is very difficult to come by. Even from professionals. As difficult as it can be to find and hire a good lawyer, it can be that difficult times three to find a competent and reliable tax professional. The good ones are mostly fully employed, not looking for new clients (note: they too rely a great deal on building up a knowledge base regarding the particular clients they service). The least reliable sources of information about tax filings tend to be those who are most confident they know what they are talking about. And maybe they do. Within the very limited scope of precisely what they are talking about, with little regard for all the many tangents that can complicate things for others.

Did I mention it is best to NOT rely on suggestions about tax matters in this forum? I think I did.

NOTE: by "professional" I do not mean those doing tax returns in mall cubicles, using their brand-name employer's software. I mean real, licensed accountants specializing in tax accounting.
 

cjanssen

Full Member
Mar 22, 2015
39
0
Thanks for all the advice on this.

On the note of counting PR days I first initiated the move since I had to live in Kenya for work purposes in 2-3 month stints. Denmark was both closer to me in Kenya and the home country of my wife so we decided it was best for her to move back home temporarily. We plan to move back to Canada someday so I hope we can count the days. Time will tell!

I will make sure to keep updated.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,589
13,521
Thanks for all the advice on this.

On the note of counting PR days I first initiated the move since I had to live in Kenya for work purposes in 2-3 month stints. Denmark was both closer to me in Kenya and the home country of my wife so we decided it was best for her to move back home temporarily. We plan to move back to Canada someday so I hope we can count the days. Time will tell!

I will make sure to keep updated.
How long did you leave after getting her PR card? Your situation is somewhat complicated because you say you moved to work in Kenya so there is no reason she needs to be in Denmatk. She is living in Denmark for family reasons and because that is her home country. How much time are you actually living together? You can always sponsor her again but this is not a straightforward we moved for my work so the PR can count our days living together while living out of Canada.
 

cjanssen

Full Member
Mar 22, 2015
39
0
From 2020 onwards I am with her 80% of the time whether that is in Kenya or Denmark.

She left 9-10 months after getting her PR card.
 

ITmanEU

Full Member
Feb 21, 2020
49
1
depnabill,
I agree with your precautions ; Thus I think your forum information can be trusted / relied upon.
Thank you as this spares me of further checking efforts with CRA.

Cjanssen,
Sorry for any disturbance caused straight through your thread.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
From 2020 onwards I am with her 80% of the time whether that is in Kenya or Denmark.

She left 9-10 months after getting her PR card.
Visits in Kenya...works FT as a teacher in Denmark.
This is more complicated than most.

The approach for a long while now has been focused on showing time the couple is cohabiting, living together, and NOT counting time visiting one or the other. Subject to cases in which it is otherwise obvious the citizen has gone abroad to be with the PR (the who-accompanied-whom cases . . . which mostly are blatant instances in which the PR has a home abroad which the citizen spouse goes to).

Generally there is always the fall-back: re-apply if PR is lost.

My GUESS is that if IRCC and CBSA do not apprehend you are manipulating the system (and it does not appear that you are), and it is well apparent you are a real couple who just happen to have lives more international than most, probably no problem. But my guesses are NOT worth much.





I agree with your precautions ; Thus I think your forum information can be trusted / relied upon.
. . . this spares me of further checking efforts with CRA
I make more than a few mistakes. AND there is a great deal I do not know. Especially in regards to tax matters.

You can trust that I make a concerted effort to get things right, and I do indeed do a lot of homework in an effort to sort out how things actually work. But I am NO expert, not anywhere near.

And especially as to tax matters: definitely do NOT rely on what I say without doing your own homework, at the least at the CRA web site.