Ray of Hope - 149th Draw - CEC

[avhiphop]

I have been trying for Canada PR for past 3 years now. I have managed to increase my CRS score every year but never managed to catch up with the cutoff. I will now have approx CRS 458. My question is should I submit my profile? Since my IELTS expired I have to give it again. Should I give IELTS and submit my profile? Or once the FSW draws start CRS 458 has no chance? Expert opinions is much appreciated... Thanks...

 

[zabrodov]

Sure, but anyone who thought immigrating to Canada was going to be a bed of roses is going to be in for a rude awakening, even at the best of times.

I know competition will be even more fierce with the economic downturn, but people who have the right credentials will find opportunities.

I just don't believe in the doom and gloom, of course there will be adjustments made, but Canada has a world class economy and it will bounce back soon enough.

If there are 10 jobs available for 20 people, why do you think it would make sense bringing another 5 for the same jobs? Bringing jobs back to Canadians is the priority. Satisfying people outside of the country is not.

Federal elections will be held in 2023. By that time, none of those who could obtain PR during COVID-19 would be able to vote. Now, if you are a politician helping which one would be important to you: a Canadian citizen who will cast his/her vote 3 years from now or some potential immigrant who won't be even able to apply for citizenship in 2023?

 

[Islander216]

If there are 10 jobs available for 20 people, why do you think it would make sense bringing another 5 for the same jobs? Bringing jobs back to Canadians is the priority. Satisfying people outside of the country is not.

Federal elections will be held in 2023. By that time, none of those who could obtain PR during COVID-19 would be able to vote. Now, if you are a politician helping which one would be important to you: a Canadian citizen who will cast his/her vote 3 years from now or some potential immigrant who won't be even able to apply for citizenship in 2023?

Well, that's conjecture, we don't know what the ratio is at the moment, and someone who doesn't have the right qualifications for example for an IT job is never going to be one of the people vying for it. We don't know currently how many people are looking for jobs in which fields.

I've already stated that i think there will be a revision of immigration numbers downwards, how much of it will affect EE remains to be seen. But i just don't see that as an issue in terms of the CEC vs FSW divide, as I said if we need to reduce immigration that's fine, then reduce it across the board instead of inviting people with less credentials simply because they are already in the country. If anything, they will be working in less skilled jobs which more locals will be vying for, than for people who are in professions which require licensing and specialized knowledge, qualifications, and work experience, many of whom are well represented by outland applicants.

 

[zabrodov]

I've already stated that i think there will be a revision of immigration numbers downwards, how much of it will affect EE remains to be seen. But i just don't see that as an issue in terms of the CEC vs FSW divide, as I said if we need to reduce immigration that's fine, then reduce it across the board instead of inviting people with less credentials simply because they are already in the country.

There are two reasons:
1. Credentials are not that important. What important is how your credentials help you secure employment. Since CEC people have Canadian work experience, that's done. CEC are fully participating in the economy by paying the share of taxes. FSW candidates are not doing that yet.

2. Cancelling CEC ITAs would hurt Canadian image as of a country that has a fairly straight pathway to PR for those who obtain education here. Unlike FSWs, most CEC candidates contribute to the economy well before they qualify for PR. They pay tuition, they buy food and rent places to live in. If you stop issuing ITAs to FSW candidates, then not much would happen to both the country and candidates.
If you stop issuing ITAs for CEC, then the trust is damaged. Then, when the time comes, potential international students will be thinking twice before investing their money into Canadian education.

 

[nat.abramovich]

There are two reasons:
1. Credentials are not that important. What important is how your credentials help you secure employment. Since CEC people have Canadian work experience, that's done. CEC are fully participating in the economy by paying the share of taxes. FSW candidates are not doing that yet.

2. Cancelling CEC ITAs would hurt Canadian image as of a country that has a fairly straight pathway to PR for those who obtain education here. Unlike FSWs, most CEC candidates contribute to the economy well before they qualify for PR. They pay tuition, they buy food and rent places to live in. If you stop issuing ITAs to FSW candidates, then not much would happen to both the country and candidates.
If you stop issuing ITAs for CEC, then the trust is damaged. Then, when the time comes, potential international students will be thinking twice before investing their money into Canadian education.

What the heck hes talking about, dont pay attention to whats hes saying bud. Hes just another jalous type of person

 

[hgunawa]

Please read what i wrote, i never said there would be a vaccine in 6 months. The most optimistic timeline you can extrapolate from what i said is 9 months at least, but with what i expect to be delays in processing, i'm saying more like a year from now.

18 months from now?

I doubt it, with vaccines already in clinical trials, there will probably be one this time next year.

I responded to exactly what you wrote and I quote:

"FSWs are not entering Canada the moment they receive ITAs, they will have 3 months to submit their application and at least 6 months to have their applications processed, and most likely will take longer. By then, there will either be a vaccine or most countries will have herd immunity. Applicants are also going to have their medicals done, and can be tested for covid when they land"

Pray tell where you said 9 months? I am not going extrapolate anything. I'm directly responding to what you wrote in your original post. If you wanted it to be clear, well then write it down. I'm not going to read your mind.

Anyways, nope, 9 months is not possible either.

Clinical trials indicate nothing in the grand scheme of things. Statistically, they hardly ever succeed and even if they do find a vaccine, it will take months to test, retest, reproduce the vaccine, manufacture and quality control before strategically distributing among the world population.

You are welcome to read these opinion pieces from some reputable websites on how long it potentially will take to produce a vaccine and in most cases even 18 months is optimistic.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-covid-vaccine.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51665497

 

[Islander216]

There are two reasons:
1. Credentials are not that important. What important is how your credentials help you secure employment. Since CEC people have Canadian work experience, that's done. CEC are fully participating in the economy by paying the share of taxes. FSW candidates are not doing that yet.

2. Cancelling CEC ITAs would hurt Canadian image as of a country that has a fairly straight pathway to PR for those who obtain education here. Unlike FSWs, most CEC candidates contribute to the economy well before they qualify for PR. They pay tuition, they buy food and rent places to live in. If you stop issuing ITAs to FSW candidates, then not much would happen to both the country and candidates.
If you stop issuing ITAs for CEC, then the trust is damaged. Then, when the time comes, potential international students will be thinking twice before investing their money into Canadian education.

1. I think this is overhyped, sure you're participating until the end of your work permit, by then IRCC can get someone with better credentials to take your place. Credentials do matter, even if you have to start lower down the pecking order than where you were in your home country initially, you still have the scope to achieve more and work in your field, if you have the qualifications and core work experience necessary. It's just a matter of adapting to the requirements of the Canadian market. Let me put it this way, if both candidates are identical then of course the CEC has the advantage, but in truth most FSWs are better qualified and have more skilled work experience. Let's not pretend that someone with a 1 year diploma is as much as an asset as a someone with a 3 year bachelor degree, even if they have a Canadian qualification and 1 year of Canadian experience.

If we lined up all the candidates here, i guarantee the FSWs have more impressive qualifications and experience than the CECs. That's reflected in their scores as well. Does having 1 or 2 years of a head start in Canadian experience offset that? I think in most cases it doesn't.

2. I do agree with this stance to a certain extent, and it's likely why CEC draws are continuing despite the pandemic. However, i think the demand will remain high regardless from international students, there really is no real competition. the alternatives are the U.S and U.K which don't have straightforward paths to residence, and Australia is significantly more expensive for international students than Canada, and their system is complicated by the divisions and criteria related to your occupation. So really, is there somewhere else to go to even if there is a suspension of ITAs to CECs? I don't think so. Most international students aren't able to remain in Canada when you consider there are about 640,000 students here currently, which means even the people who become permanent residents are a fraction of the total. There will still be plenty who come to study and go back to their country of origin.

It's a factor sure, i don't think in the long run it will discourage enough people that it ends up being a threat to the industry.

 

[Islander216]

I responded to exactly what you wrote and I quote:

"FSWs are not entering Canada the moment they receive ITAs, they will have 3 months to submit their application and at least 6 months to have their applications processed, and most likely will take longer. By then, there will either be a vaccine or most countries will have herd immunity. Applicants are also going to have their medicals done, and can be tested for covid when they land"

Pray tell where you said 9 months? I am not going extrapolate anything. I'm directly responding to what you wrote in your original post. If you wanted it to be clear, well then write it down. I'm not going to read your mind.

Anyways, nope, 9 months is not possible either.

Clinical trials indicate nothing in the grand scheme of things. Statistically, they hardly ever succeed and even if they do find a vaccine, it will take months to test, retest, reproduce the vaccine, manufacture and quality control before strategically distributing among the world population.

You are welcome to read these opinion pieces from some reputable websites on how long it potentially will take to produce a vaccine and in most cases even 18 months is optimistic.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-covid-vaccine.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51665497

3 + 6 = 9

 

[pessacanada]

I responded to exactly what you wrote and I quote:

"FSWs are not entering Canada the moment they receive ITAs, they will have 3 months to submit their application and at least 6 months to have their applications processed, and most likely will take longer. By then, there will either be a vaccine or most countries will have herd immunity. Applicants are also going to have their medicals done, and can be tested for covid when they land"

Pray tell where you said 9 months? I am not going extrapolate anything. I'm directly responding to what you wrote in your original post. If you wanted it to be clear, well then write it down. I'm not going to read your mind.

Anyways, nope, 9 months is not possible either.

Clinical trials indicate nothing in the grand scheme of things. Statistically, they hardly ever succeed and even if they do find a vaccine, it will take months to test, retest, reproduce the vaccine, manufacture and quality control before strategically distributing among the world population.

You are welcome to read these opinion pieces from some reputable websites on how long it potentially will take to produce a vaccine and in most cases even 18 months is optimistic.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-covid-vaccine.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51665497

You will have only 60 days to submit your documents once you receive your ITA.
3 months deadline is old regulation.

 

[nat.abramovich]

429 CEC aplicant here, i am not even in pool, should i register and wait for ITA or no chances? Will ask islander and 96indianstudent to ignore this question.

 

[aklsdfj]

429 CEC aplicant here, i am not even in pool, should i register and wait for ITA or no chances? Will ask islander and 96indianstudent to ignore this question.

What's the harm in registering (assuming you have your IELTS and ECA)? If you are wondering about your chances, they are not great but again, nobody thought that CEC below 450 would have a chance either. Maybe scores can drop that low. Take a chance while CEC draws last.

 

[NiclasB]

lol, i have nothing against CEC candidates. I could have easily been one myself if circumstances had been different.

I'm just pushing back against this constant stream of CECs discouraging people outside Canada here, and this notion that all of sudden they have a complete advantage over them and that this situation will continue for the foreseeable future as a permanent shift in Canada's immigration policy.

It will not, this is due to the pandemic, plain and simple.

I think there is plenty of space and opportunities in Canada for both CECs and FSWs, there's no need for one to succeed at the expense of the other.

Just be happy with the current draws, and wish everyone well regardless of which program they belong to.

The thing is that no one, absolutely no one, has said that CEC will always be better. Just in this very specific scenario. No one has said it's a permanent shift. Everyone in the thread says it's a temporary thing. Except for you, who keep saying people claim it's permanent.

The thing you keep forgetting is that many CEC are already in Canada, with jobs. And if they get an ITA they can just stay in Canada., because they can bridge their visa. That means that employers don't have to spend the time re-hiring. Which saves a lot of resources. Which right now is good.

You also don't seem to understand that it is actually immigrants in many places that hold the low paying jobs, because Canadians don't want them. So they aren't taking jobs from Canadians. They are taking the Jobs Canadians don't take anyway.

 

[navinball]

The trump administration is planning on restricting OPT so international students cannot work. Expect almost all of them heading to canada

 

[nat.abramovich]

The thing is that no one, absolutely no one, has said that CEC will always be better. Just in this very specific scenario. No one has said it's a permanent shift. Everyone in the thread says it's a temporary thing. Except for you, who keep saying people claim it's permanent.

The thing you keep forgetting is that many CEC are already in Canada, with jobs. And if they get an ITA they can just stay in Canada., because they can bridge their visa. That means that employers don't have to spend the time re-hiring. Which saves a lot of resources. Which right now is good.

You also don't seem to understand that it is actually immigrants in many places that hold the low paying jobs, because Canadians don't want them. So they aren't taking jobs from Canadians. They are taking the Jobs Canadians don't take anyway.

Whole summer is going to be straight cec draws

 

[Islander216]

The thing is that no one, absolutely no one, has said that CEC will always be better. Just in this very specific scenario. No one has said it's a permanent shift. Everyone in the thread says it's a temporary thing. Except for you, who keep saying people claim it's permanent.

The thing you keep forgetting is that many CEC are already in Canada, with jobs. And if they get an ITA they can just stay in Canada., because they can bridge their visa. That means that employers don't have to spend the time re-hiring. Which saves a lot of resources. Which right now is good.

You also don't seem to understand that it is actually immigrants in many places that hold the low paying jobs, because Canadians don't want them. So they aren't taking jobs from Canadians. They are taking the Jobs Canadians don't take anyway.

I understand all of those points, i just don't assign as much importance to them as others do here.

Yes, you may have a job but many CECs change jobs once they obtain PR because a lot of them are not working in very desirable jobs. So how does that help their employers? CECs don't have an ironclad commitment to their employers nor should they, they will be free agents once they get PR but it's also why i don't ascribe much weight to this argument. I've seen many CECs post their work experience here, many of them don't stay with their employers for an extended period, there are many who don't even bother completing a year with the same employer before moving to another.

Sure, i see plenty of immigrants who take on low paying frontline jobs, however in the current situation with many people losing their jobs, even Canadians will be vying for what they may have considered undesirable jobs previously.

At the end of day, you gotta eat and you gotta pay the bills.

Anyhow, i don't feel like there is much forward progression with these discussions, i've made my position clear. I don't agree with the narrative people have peddled here that there's a great advantage to CECs over FSWs.

The advantages stated are marginal at best. But that's just my opinion, people are free to disagree.