Owner operator LMIA, Work permit and PR

[ayamsazi]

Update

Work permit application for myself, Open work permit for Spouse, Study permit for child has been submitted. Bio-metrics request for spouse came in couple of days after submission and bio-metrics has been done.

I am guessing another week before they ask for medical. I did upfront medical and submitted with my application but for spouse and child we are waiting for medical request.

Does anyone knows how good the chances are of getting work permit now with positive LMIA? Keeping in mind, my TRV has been refused twice.

Congratulations on your progress! Your updates have been really helpful. I have a few questions:

- When was your ESDC interview held?
- Was ESDC okay with a virtual address?
- What documents did you attach with the Business Plan to prove that your business is active?
As part of our documentation, our consultant has asked us to include an office lease agreement, open a bank account, show some purchase orders and that we have employed at least 1 person to prove the business is up and running and actively engaged.

Thanks much!

 

[Harvinder73]

Don't think providing that info publicly is possible, pm me and i will share the name but if i had to do it all

Update Update Update

After all these negative updates and getting rejected twice for TRV, today i finally got positive LMIA from service canada. This has not been easy and there has been a lot that i had to do during the last 2 months, but its hopefully all worth it.

Keep in mind, i only got approved for NOC 0125 which fetch only 50 points for Permanent residency application, even though i applied for NOC 0013
Further, the officer reduced the term to 1 year for work permit instead of applied 2 years.

all in all, i am happy and now applying for work permit. It says 5 weeks processing time, hopefully we get the work permit for family by end of march or beginning of april.

I feel like an expert on owner operator LMIA applications, since i had to do multiple calls, emails and other communications with the officer during these last 45 days.

Congratulations! @canadavisaQs. You deserved it. Well done!
I can't seem to DM you, your settings are at fault, I believe. Please DM me as I have some questions which I believe you can answer.
Good luck for you new life in Canada and all power to you!

 

[broko85]

Update Update Update

After all these negative updates and getting rejected twice for TRV, today i finally got positive LMIA from service canada. This has not been easy and there has been a lot that i had to do during the last 2 months, but its hopefully all worth it.

Keep in mind, i only got approved for NOC 0125 which fetch only 50 points for Permanent residency application, even though i applied for NOC 0013
Further, the officer reduced the term to 1 year for work permit instead of applied 2 years.

all in all, i am happy and now applying for work permit. It says 5 weeks processing time, hopefully we get the work permit for family by end of march or beginning of april.

I feel like an expert on owner operator LMIA applications, since i had to do multiple calls, emails and other communications with the officer during these last 45 days.

Firstly congratulations on getting your LIMA.. did you not ask them why it was NOC 0125 and not what you applied for? I got turned down my LIMA application but the officer went through in details the areas and reason why so when i reapply i can fix those.

 

[fishinfall]

Firstly congratulations on getting your LIMA.. did you not ask them why it was NOC 0125 and not what you applied for? I got turned down my LIMA application but the officer went through in details the areas and reason why so when i reapply i can fix those.

Sorry to hear that. Do you mind sharing the main reason for the deny?

 

[oncoders]

Greetings canadavisaQs

Glad things have gone well for you,congratulations , Could you please share the name of the company/agency which you have used? Even if slow and not very prompt as you have mentioned , they seem to be fairly priced and i would love to get their details from you if you dont mind.

Thanks a lot .

Well, this is all based on my assumption and experience with officer

here's the description of two NOCs
NOC 0013 is senior manager something
NOC 0125 is office manager something

So i am thinking the officer is assuming since there is no one hired yet and the business is not started how could i be senior manager in the business.

I could have started the business (Which in my case is impossible without visiting Canada) and hired some employees to get NOC 0013.

i know another application was denied because applicant paid the franchisee fee and has sufficient funds in the bank, but officer denied saying it was not operational.

my officer also suggested i should apply for fresh LMIA to get work permit again to extend after the initial 1 year. So now, the situation is pretty tricky, i have 1 year work permit (hopefully) and out of which it will take 4-5 months to get positive LMIA and another 95 days to get work permit, so roughly 8-9 months to secure work permit and not get kicked out of canada after 1 year and hiring employees etc, i feel pretty good about this and can do this easily. Plus after 4-5 months in canada, if i get positive LMIA with NOC 0013 i can apply for PR under express entry.

For everyone reading this, do you know if work permit can be denied after positive LMIA in this case? if yes, what could be the reason. In order words, does getting positive LMIA gives me green light to start preparing for a semi move out of country? Got couple of stupid cars i want to sell if i am going out for a year or two and don't want to waste time after getting work permit.

Submitting work permit application this week.

 

[broko85]

Sorry to hear that. Do you mind sharing the main reason for the deny?

my application was turned down due to it as being not actively engaged as well as no reasonable employment need.

 

[broko85]

Hello,

I am going to create this thread to document my entire journey of applying for LMIA, getting a work permit and then eventually getting PR for Canada.

Profile
Age - 33
Nationality - Indian
Dependents - 2 (Spouse and Child)
EE Score - around 350 (Because of no academic qualifications)
IELTS - 7.5 overall

Visitor visa Denied (May 2019)
I was recently denied a Visitors visa to Canada, which i applied myself using the online portal. I have traveled to at least 20 countries with at least 20 trips in last 10 years to US. The reason for denial was standard letter "We don't feel you will return to your home country". In retro-respect, i feel the application was denied because i didn't provide enough documents (or any documents for that matter). I have visas for a lot of countries and i thought based on travel history, any documents showing financial stability or ties to my home country won't be required (lesson learned). I could easily apply again with a good supporting set of documents but my attorney that is doing the LMIA and work permit is suggesting i must wait and just focus on LMIA application.

LMIA Application and process (Started in May 2019, submitting application around Aug 20th 2019)
Started this process around end of may and last 3 months has been just going back and forth between attorney and there team to create business plan and provide support documents for Owner operated LMIA application as a owner in BC with Salary of $55 per hour (High wage category).

According to my attorney this type of application is expedited and gets a decision in 10 Business days, but lately they have been seeing applications taking as long as 4 weeks.

We should be faxing in the application from my attorney's office sometimes next week (Aug 19 to Aug 23 2019).

I have opened a bank account in Canadian Bank, and sent $150,000 to my account as proof of funds for the business, we will be attaching this to LMIA application.

Feel free to ask questions or provide any feedback you might have.

hiya thanks for this, do you mind sharing your business plan to get an idea of the way it was laid out. I can give you my personal email if this is ok. thanks

 

[canadavisaQs]

@canadavisaQs
Thanks for your informational posts here. I'm also starting the owner operation LMIA program recently.
I wanted to ask you about the business registration process.
1. Did you use a service provider to help you to create your business or you created the business all by yourself?
2. What type of business did you create? I see there are business corporation, professional corporation, sole corporation, general partnership etc. not sure which type I should choose. Also, is there any specific business type requirement like limited, Corp. or Incorp.?
3. I see you mentioned you used a virtual address while registering the business. My lawyer said that I at least should lease a shared office before the LMIA application. I wanted to check office nature as well, because if I start renting the office right now, it may stay empty at least half year until I onboard.
4. Also, did you wire your in to business account or your own personal account? You wired from US to Canada because the bank statement in US didn’t count?

1. No i created a company myself with BC registry, its pretty easy and self explanatory.
2. It's confidential, i am trying to somewhat keep my identity secret and my business is very niche, telling business type would almost reveal all info about me including my future office address, home address etc in canada. feel free to PM and i will discuss
There's no specific type of business that Service canada requires, you have to do whats best for you. I did Business corporation
3. I also was in a same dilemna when submitting application but paying rent for almost a year without any guarantee didn't make sense. I explained officer how renting office was not necessary without getting work permit and she understood.
4. I wired into business account for the new business i started in canada. I think wiring money in Canadian account just shows intent that you are genuinely interested in starting the business. Worst case scenario, if it got denied i would have easily wired it back to US or India. You lose a little bit of money in transfer fees but thats really not that big of an expense.

 

[canadavisaQs]

Congratulations on your progress! Your updates have been really helpful. I have a few questions:

- When was your ESDC interview held?
- Was ESDC okay with a virtual address?
- What documents did you attach with the Business Plan to prove that your business is active?
As part of our documentation, our consultant has asked us to include an office lease agreement, open a bank account, show some purchase orders and that we have employed at least 1 person to prove the business is up and running and actively engaged.

Thanks much!

- When was your ESDC interview held?
I think it was 1st week of January and then multiple calls

- Was ESDC okay with a virtual address?
Yes, i got approved based on that.

- What documents did you attach with the Business Plan to prove that your business is active?
Not much, business is not active, i am starting it and most of it can't be done virtually so i need to be in canada to start it. i Submitted purchase order for some equipment and officer made me purchase those before approving my application, other than that, just virtual office and funds in Canadian bank account.

 

[canadavisaQs]

hiya thanks for this, do you mind sharing your business plan to get an idea of the way it was laid out. I can give you my personal email if this is ok. thanks

Thats not really not something i can share at the moment. I wish i could edit it out and give you general layout of the business plan, but thats too much work i am wiling to do at the moment. Sorry, i wish i could help you more.

 

[canadavisaQs]

Greetings canadavisaQs

Glad things have gone well for you,congratulations , Could you please share the name of the company/agency which you have used? Even if slow and not very prompt as you have mentioned , they seem to be fairly priced and i would love to get their details from you if you dont mind.

Thanks a lot .

Pm me and i will share

I would not use to them again and do not wish to share the name publicaly to ensure others don't fall for them. Even though i have said multiple times i won't use them again, i think if i list the name, people will just use them knowing i got approved. Keep in mind, approval doesn't have a lot to do with the firm, its a lot to do with you and your business plan.

Don't get me wrong, good firm and having good experience on your side helps but at the end of the day, they can't change much but you can.

 

[canadavisaQs]

Congratulations! @canadavisaQs. You deserved it. Well done!
I can't seem to DM you, your settings are at fault, I believe. Please DM me as I have some questions which I believe you can answer.
Good luck for you new life in Canada and all power to you!

DM should be working now, send me message.

 

[canadavisaQs]

thanks @canadavisaQs for guiding us, can you please clear another confusion: I am going to open a small company in partnership of a PR friend who is already settled there. Whether we should initiate our bus now( take small office & employ one resident) before lodging my application or to start operations once I am landed there. Considering my aim to gain managerial LMIA (200 points) asap, what do you suggest us?
Thank u again!

If you can start business before submitting the plan, that would strengthen the case so much. Everyone i know that got denied is mostly because the business is not active etc etc, so having up and running business is a great plus.

I believe if i had 1-2 employees and office and running business, i would have easily gotten 200 points (00 noc) approval.

 

[oncoders]

Pm me and i will share

I would not use to them again and do not wish to share the name publicaly to ensure others don't fall for them. Even though i have said multiple times i won't use them again, i think if i list the name, people will just use them knowing i got approved. Keep in mind, approval doesn't have a lot to do with the firm, its a lot to do with you and your business plan.

Don't get me wrong, good firm and having good experience on your side helps but at the end of the day, they can't change much but you can.

Thank you , I get it , I will look for other firms as well but as most of them are asking for a lot more money . I am doing my research on this as well.
Let's see.

 

[Matthew Iwama]

These applications need to consider several factors, in my view. I have always taken the position to reverse engineer from the desired outcome, which for some is PR, and while for others it is not.

1. So, firstly, what is the goal? If it is PR through Express Entry, and the 200 points are needed, there needs to be justification and structural considerations for allowing an NOC 00 to be integrated, as well as room for NOC 0 or A (through middle management). As some other posters have shared, ESDC has down-graded their application and only approved a NOC 0 occupation.

2. Secondly, what will be the structure of the organization and how will compensation be structured? Is this being done as an incorporation, LP, LLP, etc? Will the owner/operator be paid a salary or will they be paid dividends, or a combination of both? In thinking down the road, towards PR, the Federal Court of Canada has made several decisions as it regards compensation of O/Os and the validity of the experience in certain economic classes.

Lazar v. Citizenship and Immigration
Byrne v. Citizenship and Immigration

Many people are just so concerned with obtaining an LMIA with 200 points, that they fail to actually plan how this will play out in reality vis a vis their Express Entry situation. Keep in mind that for an LMIA to be approved for PR only, the business must have been in operation for at least 12 months. Therefore, a dual intent or regular high-wage application still needs to be filed.

3. All Owner-Operator files are reviewed by ESDC's Business Expertise division. They're not idiots. For a multitude of reasons (Investor classes shutting, PNP Business Streams changing, EE Points increasing), there has been a huge demand over the past 2 years for these applications. Back in 2013 and 2014, the actual guidance on these applications was reversed, and O/Os needed to hold less than 50% of the company! (Now, the burden is on the applicant to demonstrate a controlling interest). Therefore, business concepts need to be viable and tangible. I've seen everything from convenience stores not qualified for PNP to IT Consultancies to Larger Capital Investment projects such as Real Estate Development, all be approved under this category. The business plan needs to be rooted in reality. My preference has always been for businesses with leases in place, agreements signed, letters of intent.

4. Job Creation and Transfer of Skills to Canadians is paramount to ESDC during their assessment of these files. It must make sense in light of the proposed business concept. And, as I mentioned in #1, there needs to be a well thought through plan as to how this plays out in terms of hiring. PNP Applications are much more structured and grounded in fixed-requirements and performance agreements. These applications are different.

Here is the thought-process checklist I would suggest:

• What is my goal?
• What kind of business do I actually want to run? Not just what gets approved
• Where is my expertise?
• Would it be easier to purchase an existing business rather than trying to start a new concept from zero?
• Is there structural room for the creation of jobs and transfer of skills in this business?
• How do I intend to compensate myself?
• What is the path to revenue in this business (if starting from zero)?
• What is my plan if the LMIA is approved but the work permit is denied?
• Where do I want to establish this business concept?

These are all the things that need to be considered, developed and thought about.