Re-Entering Canada with Expired PR Card and without meeting the RO

[ferry-1978]

Dear All,

Please help me,
What is the chances of entering Canada after me and my family's PR cards are expired since 5 years ago and my RO was not met?
If I can enter Canada, will it be better through applying for a PR Travel Document (from a Canadian Embassy) and then air travel to Canada, or would it be better to directly go through the USA border using my expired PR card?
Is there a chance that the Canadian Embassy not issue the PRTD and instead of that report me?
What are the chances of each case that I will be allowed to enter Canada?
and also what are the chances of each case that i will be reported to revoke my PR status?

Note: I never made a tax file because i never stayed for more than 50 consecutive days in Canada and in total of the 5 years period of my PR card i stayed only 190 days, so i considered myself as non resident so i did not file a tax

 

[jddd]

PRTD will be refused and process to start revoking PR will start if you go that way.

If you have a US visa, considering your PR card is expired, you will be called into secondary review where they will find out about you not meeting RO. Whether they report you or not is up to them.

If you never really settled in Canada, you do not have a good chance at keeping PR if reported. Why were you outside Canada anyway?

 

[ferry-1978]

PRTD will be refused and process to start revoking PR will start if you go that way.

If you have a US visa, considering your PR card is expired, you will be called into secondary review where they will find out about you not meeting RO. Whether they report you or not is up to them.

If you never really settled in Canada, you do not have a good chance at keeping PR if reported. Why were you outside Canada anyway?

The "secondary review" will be at the Canadian borders as I understand from what you are saying.
The "secondary review" will find out that I am not meeting the RO and the Officer/Immigration may or may not report me. But, will they allow me to enter Canada?

I am outside Canada for two basic reasons,
1. My mother is quite old 68 years and she made three spine surgeries and she likes me staying
2. I am currently in a good job that I could not find a replacement to it in Canada.

 

[Bs65]

As a PR you would be allowed to enter Canada whether reported or not. However if you enter without being reported you would need to stay put for at least 2 years before attempting to renew your PR card. If you attempt to renew any earlier you still run risk of your PR status being revoked.

As above applying for a PRTD given you have failed the RO then your PR status would probably be revoked as a result of that application . That is unless you have a very solid case in supporting your mother complete with medical records etc and proof nobody else in your home country could look after her even then odds of you keeping your PR status are low/ unpredictable.

Her liking you staying would not be a reason and neither would be any financial or employment reasons.

68 in many countries by the way is not considered that old, 78 maybe.

 

[dpenabill]

What is the chances of entering Canada after me and my family's PR cards are expired since 5 years ago and my RO was not met?

I am outside Canada for two basic reasons,
1. My mother is quite old 68 years and she made three spine surgeries and she likes me staying
2. I am currently in a good job that I could not find a replacement to it in Canada.

I do not disagree with other observations emphasizing the odds are NOT good that you will be allowed to retain your PR status. The length of the absence looms rather large.

While it appears your chances are NOT good, I strongly disagree with declarative assertions as to what the result will be. NO ONE here can fully assess and determine with certainty what the outcome will be in an individual case. Even if they are apprised of far more information about the particular case than is presented in your query.

And it is simply NOT true that financial or employment reasons for remaining abroad are NOT considered as potential reasons for justifying the retention of PR status notwithstanding a breach of the PR Residency Obligation. How such factors are considered can vary considerably. Indeed, ANY and ALL reasons why a PR remained abroad MUST be considered before an officer can make a decision resulting in the denial of a PR Travel Document application or the issuance of a Departure Order attendant a 44(1) Report for Inadmissibility.

Which should NOT be understood to offer much hope. And the longer you have been outside the Canada, the lower the odds of getting, in effect, a waiver for the breach the RO.


Some procedural observations:

If I can enter Canada, will it be better through applying for a PR Travel Document (from a Canadian Embassy) and then air travel to Canada, or would it be better to directly go through the USA border using my expired PR card?
Is there a chance that the Canadian Embassy not issue the PRTD and instead of that report me?

Generally, so far as we can discern, in PR RO related decision-making border officers at a PoE tend to be more lenient if not generous than Visa Offices. BUT your circumstances appear likely to evoke a negative decision either way, UNLESS your situation, as best you can describe and document it, convinces the respective officer that you should be allowed to keep PR status based on H&C reasons.

Whether your chances at the border (traveling via the U.S.) are enough better, compared to making a PR Travel Document application, to actually pack up and make that move, leaving employment where you are now, settling affairs, and so on, is a tough call. Again, your odds do not appear to be anywhere near good. Either way. Thing is, if you take that gamble, best case scenario is you are allowed into Canada without being Reported, and if that happens that will only work if you STAY in Canada for the next two years. Of course even if Reported and issued a Departure Order, this way you can still enter Canada and stay and appeal, and by staying until the appeal is heard thereby improve the H&C case at least some. But the odds still do not appear favourable. Rather the contrary.

So whether it is worth doing that is very much your personal decision, versus just putting it all into an application for a PR TD, explaining and documenting, as best you can, your reasons for remaining abroad so long and explaining your desire and intent to now make the move to Canada to stay, and letting the Visa Office decide based on what you submit. Odds are not good. But, again, NO ONE here can reliably say for sure how it will go. And if the Visa Office views your reasons, your explanation, justifies giving you the chance to come to Canada and keep your PR, a favourable H&C decision and issuance of a PR TD would mean you could come to Canada confident you will be allowed to stay, keeping PR status.

For now you are still a Canadian. Albeit a Canadian who has not met the obligations for keeping Canadian status. You are largely at the mercy of the officers who will examine your case and determine if your reasons for not meeting the obligations for keeping Canadian status justify giving you the chance to keep your PR status. Up to you whether you want to make the move and hope it goes well at the border, or whether you let it all hang out in a PR TD application hoping the Visa Office gives you a break.

 

[babsizkil]

Dear All,

Please help me,
What is the chances of entering Canada after me and my family's PR cards are expired since 5 years ago and my RO was not met?
If I can enter Canada, will it be better through applying for a PR Travel Document (from a Canadian Embassy) and then air travel to Canada, or would it be better to directly go through the USA border using my expired PR card?
Is there a chance that the Canadian Embassy not issue the PRTD and instead of that report me?
What are the chances of each case that I will be allowed to enter Canada?
and also what are the chances of each case that i will be reported to revoke my PR status?

Note: I never made a tax file because i never stayed for more than 50 consecutive days in Canada and in total of the 5 years period of my PR card i stayed only 190 days, so i considered myself as non resident so i did not file a tax

Do you have any family member in Canada that is Citizen or PR? Is there any compelling reason or factor that outweigh your refusal. For example, any serious medical condition, or important appointment with the government of Canada that require your presence. Above all, I will rather advice that you approach a CBSA/Immigration officer through POE rather than applying for PRTD at oversee visa office. As the refusal of the latter, will trigger or flag your case. If refuse entry at POE, you are likely to be referred for admissibility hearing. You maybe allowed into Canada with a TRP.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Do you have any family member in Canada that is Citizen or PR? Is there any compelling reason or factor that outweigh your refusal. For example, any serious medical condition, or important appointment with the government of Canada that require your presence. Above all, I will rather advice that you approach a CBSA/Immigration officer through POE rather than applying for PRTD at oversee visa office. As the refusal of the latter, will trigger or flag your case. If refuse entry at POE, you are likely to be referred for admissibility hearing. You maybe allowed into Canada with a TRP.

OP will be allowed into Canada as a PR, regardless of whether they are reported or not.

 

[jddd]

The "secondary review" will be at the Canadian borders as I understand from what you are saying.
The "secondary review" will find out that I am not meeting the RO and the Officer/Immigration may or may not report me. But, will they allow me to enter Canada?

I am outside Canada for two basic reasons,
1. My mother is quite old 68 years and she made three spine surgeries and she likes me staying
2. I am currently in a good job that I could not find a replacement to it in Canada.

As others have already confirmed, you will be able to enter at the border. You are a PR so have the right to do so.

In MY OPINION, you do not have H&C grounds to retain PR if IRCC moves to revoke it but ultimately, it is up to the government.

 

[babsizkil]

OP will be allowed into Canada as a PR, regardless of whether they are reported or not.

Without valid PR card or PRTD? How would OP board a flight? Except through land POE. What would happen thereafter, especially when she need to renew PR card in Canada since 5 years has passed?

 

[Bs65]

I do not disagree with other observations emphasizing the odds are NOT good that you will be allowed to retain your PR status. The length of the absence looms rather large.

While it appears your chances are NOT good, I strongly disagree with declarative assertions as to what the result will be. NO ONE here can fully assess and determine with certainty what the outcome will be in an individual case. Even if they are apprised of far more information about the particular case than is presented in your query.

And it is simply NOT true that financial or employment reasons for remaining abroad are NOT considered as potential reasons for justifying the retention of PR status notwithstanding a breach of the PR Residency Obligation. How such factors are considered can vary considerably. Indeed, ANY and ALL reasons why a PR remained abroad MUST be considered before an officer can make a decision resulting in the denial of a PR Travel Document application or the issuance of a Departure Order attendant a 44(1) Report for Inadmissibility.

Which should NOT be understood to offer much hope. And the longer you have been outside the Canada, the lower the odds of getting, in effect, a waiver for the breach the RO.


Some procedural observations:



Generally, so far as we can discern, in PR RO related decision-making border officers at a PoE tend to be more lenient if not generous than Visa Offices. BUT your circumstances appear likely to evoke a negative decision either way, UNLESS your situation, as best you can describe and document it, convinces the respective officer that you should be allowed to keep PR status based on H&C reasons.

Whether your chances at the border (traveling via the U.S.) are enough better, compared to making a PR Travel Document application, to actually pack up and make that move, leaving employment where you are now, settling affairs, and so on, is a tough call. Again, your odds do not appear to be anywhere near good. Either way. Thing is, if you take that gamble, best case scenario is you are allowed into Canada without being Reported, and if that happens that will only work if you STAY in Canada for the next two years. Of course even if Reported and issued a Departure Order, this way you can still enter Canada and stay and appeal, and by staying until the appeal is heard thereby improve the H&C case at least some. But the odds still do not appear favourable. Rather the contrary.

So whether it is worth doing that is very much your personal decision, versus just putting it all into an application for a PR TD, explaining and documenting, as best you can, your reasons for remaining abroad so long and explaining your desire and intent to now make the move to Canada to stay, and letting the Visa Office decide based on what you submit. Odds are not good. But, again, NO ONE here can reliably say for sure how it will go. And if the Visa Office views your reasons, your explanation, justifies giving you the chance to come to Canada and keep your PR, a favourable H&C decision and issuance of a PR TD would mean you could come to Canada confident you will be allowed to stay, keeping PR status.

For now you are still a Canadian. Albeit a Canadian who has not met the obligations for keeping Canadian status. You are largely at the mercy of the officers who will examine your case and determine if your reasons for not meeting the obligations for keeping Canadian status justify giving you the chance to keep your PR status. Up to you whether you want to make the move and hope it goes well at the border, or whether you let it all hang out in a PR TD application hoping the Visa Office gives you a break.

A minor point but the OP is a PR and not a Canadian given that classification obviously applies to a citizen not to a PR

 

[Bs65]

Without valid PR card or PRTD? How would OP board a flight? Except through land POE. What would happen thereafter, especially when she need to renew PR card in Canada since 5 years has passed?

As mentioned above the OP would need to get a US visa assuming not from a visa waiver country and then cross over the From the US. Assuming they make it back in without being reported general advice here is to have minimum contact with immigration or none at all until the RO has been reset, only then apply to renew PR card.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Without valid PR card or PRTD? How would OP board a flight? Except through land POE. What would happen thereafter, especially when she need to renew PR card in Canada since 5 years has passed?

As already explained, OP would have to enter at the land border and will likely be reported.

 

[dpenabill]

A minor point but the OP is a PR and not a Canadian given that classification obviously applies to a citizen not to a PR

Canadian PRs are Canadians, NOT Foreign Nationals. See definitions IRPA. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-1.html#h-274071

 

[vensak]

Canadian PRs are Canadians, NOT Foreign Nationals. See definitions IRPA. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-1.html#h-274071

Nope in the law you have posted following is stated:

foreign national means a person who is not a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident, and includes a stateless person. (étranger)

permanent resident means a person who has acquired permanent resident status and has not subsequently lost that status under section 46. (résident permanent)

However nowhere in that law is stated that permanent resident is Canadian.

As for the word Canadian, it can mean an adjective (Canadian beer, Canadian flag....)
Or it can be used as a noun. In which case it can be broadly understood as a person living in Canada or more specifically as a Canadian citizen.

Because of this possible mismatch laws do use whole term Canadian citizen.

So to be clear permanent resident is not Canadian (citizen). Permanent resident is a permanent resident.

In real life, permanent resident is just a better type of foreign national in Canada and according to the international law it is still regarded as a foreign national.

That means that permanent resident does not have access to lot of perks (not being able to vote is just one of them). Permanent resident can deported from Canada without any appeal should he commit serious crime.
Permanent resident cannot seek help of Canadian embassy abroad and has to rely on his or her country of origins.
And of course future laws towards permanent residents can change without that creating too much of an international scandal.

 

[dpenabill]

I have been round this block since the day I landed and became a PR. The officer who did my paperwork finished by saying congratulations, "you are now a Canadian." Which surprised me. Which I thought was incorrect. I described this in multiple forums at the time (yeah, it has been awhile, a rather long while), and was simply told (by reliable sources) that the officer was correct, that upon becoming a Canadian PR a person becomes a "Canadian."

I was still a bit surprised. So I did the homework. I did the research. And what I learned was that under Canadian immigration law there are two broad categories: Foreign Nationals and Canadians. There are many variations of immigration status in Canada that Foreign Nationals may have. There are only two variations of status that Canadians have: Canadian citizens (including indigenous persons) and Canadian PRs.

Thus the definitions specifically define Foreign Nationals to be anyone who is NOT either a Canadian citizen or a Canadian PR.

Thus the PoE in some airports have a separate line for Canadians, which includes PRs.

This is in strong contrast to countries like the U.S. where Permanent Residents continue to be "aliens" under the U.S. law.

While it may seem that the label "Canadian" itself has little legal import apart from the legalities which attach to or are a part of the particular type of Canadian a person is, that is the legal effect of being a citizen, and the legal effect of being a PR, the fundamental rights and privileges of being a Canadian apply to all Canadians, citizens and PRs, with specific exceptions which, when prescribed, explicitly state which apply to "Canadian citizens" (not just "Canadians") and which apply to Canadian Permanent Residents, including in provisions which explicitly state they apply to both Canadian citizens and Canadian PRs as opposed to all other persons (Section 6 in the Charter for example, which prescribes certain mobility rights of citizens, and separately the mobility rights of both citizens and PRs).

Nope in the law you have posted following is stated:

foreign national means a person who is not a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident, and includes a stateless person. (étranger)

permanent resident means a person who has acquired permanent resident status and has not subsequently lost that status under section 46. (résident permanent)

However nowhere in that law is stated that permanent resident is Canadian.

As for the word Canadian, it can mean an adjective (Canadian beer, Canadian flag....)
Or it can be used as a noun. In which case it can be broadly understood as a person living in Canada or more specifically as a Canadian citizen.

Because of this possible mismatch laws do use whole term Canadian citizen.

So to be clear permanent resident is not Canadian (citizen). Permanent resident is a permanent resident.

In real life, permanent resident is just a better type of foreign national in Canada and according to the international law it is still regarded as a foreign national.

That means that permanent resident does not have access to lot of perks (not being able to vote is just one of them). Permanent resident can deported from Canada without any appeal should he commit serious crime.
Permanent resident cannot seek help of Canadian embassy abroad and has to rely on his or her country of origins.
And of course future laws towards permanent residents can change without that creating too much of an international scandal.