Left Canada when a minor

[jddd]

"In all honesty, your reply is too long for me to read. I will assume you disagree with me so let us just agree to disagree."​

Symptomatic of the times. Spout opinions without bothering to even consider the evidence let alone do the homework. And then firmly stand behind such opinions. Regardless.

No, I do not agree to disagree on such conditions.

That said, perhaps we do agree. I agree, for example, that if pursuant to due process and procedural fairness it is determined, under the current law, that a PR should lose PR status, yeah, that means the PR should lose PR status. If that is what you mean, I agree.

BUT where it appears our views diverge is whether a finding that a PR has failed to comply with the RO necessarily means the PR should lose PR status. Spoiler: the law says NO. The policy and practice, including interpretation and application of the current law says IT DEPENDS. This is NOT my personal view. This is what official sources say the law actually is.

"To simplify here is how I see it and how we have been taught to interpret the LAW: IF RO is NOT a MUST then by DEFAULT, ANYONE who appeals due to losing PR because of non compliance to RO MUST THEN have their appeal accepted."​

There is NO MUST be this or MUST be that outcome. In either direction. Whether a PR who has not complied with the PR RO "should" (under current law) lose PR status DEPENDS. It VARIES depending on the particular facts and circumstances in the individual case. Outcomes go in both directions.

First rule of interpretation is to read the actual law. Including its interpretation and the application of the law by official authorities. The IAD and Federal Court for example. Contrary to popular views, not all opinions are created equal. A little homework can go a long way. Beyond that, only the fool consults with her car mechanic about a medical issue rather than a qualified physician.

In any event: PRs do have a definite right (statutory "right") to have their appeal of a RO inadmissibility determination heard.

Even before that, however, BEFORE an officer, including a Minister's Delegate, can make a determination terminating a PR's status, NO MATTER how big the breach of the RO is, the officer MUST consider whether there are H&C reasons justifying retention of PR status. That is definitely the law. And if there are H&C reasons justifying retention of PR status, Section 28(2)(c) is clear: that "overcomes any breach of the residency obligation."

Which, as I have attempted to emphasize, does not necessarily give PRs a pass, and does not necessarily do so when they have what many might believe are compelling reasons (this forum is rife with PR stories illustrating highly unrealistic expectations about getting H&C relief). The outcome VARIES. Again, there is NO MUST be this or MUST be that outcome. The outcome DEPENDS on the particular details in the individual case. Even for the strongest H&C cases, like the removed-as-a-minor PR seeking to return to Canada soon after reaching the age of majority. DEPENDING on the particular facts, some go one way, some go the other way.

"Note that I am not talking about those with valid H&C reasons."​

Then who are you talking about? Obviously reasonable minds should agree that those who should lose PR status should lose PR status. That's kind of a tautology. If it's blue it's blue. Sure.

The point is that a breach of the RO does NOT, not necessarily, mean a PR should lose PR status, NOT under the current law. Again, IT DEPENDS. And what it depends on is whether there are H&C reasons justifying retention of PR status. If there are such reasons, the law is clear: such a PR is NOT among those who should lose PR. Despite failing to comply with the RO.

What some here have objected to, and their objection is well-founded, is the oft espoused opinion that removed-as-a-minor PRs who have not been in Canada for many years are among those who categorically should lose PR, especially if it appears their objective is to return to Canada to take advantage of educational opportunities here. That opinion is about what they think the law should be, and does not reflect what the current law is or how it currently works.

Even if the young PR's objective is largely to come to Canada to take advantage of educational opportunities here, including tuition benefits, the removed-as-a-minor PR seeking to return to Canada soon after reaching the age of majority is STILL among the stronger H&C cases, if not the strongest. Many if not most such PRs have the best shot at being allowed to retain their status.

"I will ALWAYS hate those who abuse the system."​

I am no Catholic, and being human (despite vociferous epithets to the contrary often aimed at those of us who engage in my profession) my emotions sometimes overcome my reason (intellectually I am a firm pacifist, for example, but am well aware it is likely I'm prone to reacting with violence if threatened or sufficiently provoked), I personally side with the sentiments recently expressed by the U.S. Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, who told reporters she does not "hate" anyone (not even the bone-spurs-would-be-king monster she was being asked about). For me it is more in the nature of I try to not hate anyone, but again sometimes my emotions get the better of me.

Apart from that, I do not condone let alone support or encourage abuse of the Canadian immigration system. I definitively oppose its abuse.

Taking advantage of certain PR-favourable policies and practices, however, does NOT constitute abuse. What the law allows essentially defines what is acceptable, what does not constitute an abuse of the system.

Even though there are some here who make a concerted effort to frame the removed-as-a-minor PR seeking to return to Canada as an abuse of the system, and who seem all-too-ready to pass derisive judgment with no more than a scant familiarity with the facts that matter. I do not know if such views actually derive from an anti-immigrant animus or just appear to. I do know, however, because I do the homework, that the policy and practice of the Canadian government continues to be generous toward those removed-as-a-minor PRs seeking to return to Canada.

Really not trying to be rude. I know you are one of the helpful ones here but the length of your replies prevent me from reading them. Like I said, I assume we disagree and I am 100% okay with that.

 

[dpenabill]

Really not trying to be rude. I know you are one of the helpful ones here but the length of your replies prevent me from reading them. Like I said, I assume we disagree and I am 100% okay with that.

I will be frank, noting this may not apply to you, what triggered this latest round of discussion about these cases where a removed-as-a-minor PR seeks to come to Canada to live, including those who do so expressly for the purpose of taking advantage of Canadian educational opportunities, is the repeat of derisive judgments targeting such PRs. These judgments tend to be framed in terms of what should be the outcome under the law when they are actually personal opinion about what the law should be, not what it is. That is misinformation and misleading.

I have previously reacted, and am likely to continue reacting, to what appears to be the anti-immigrant sentiments underlying those views and misinformation. I agree with those who bristle and are offended by such misinformation. As much as I oppose abusing the system, I also oppose misinformation that appears to have been motivated by an anti-immigrant animus.

If what you disagree with is what the law should be, how the law should apply, that is your personal prerogative. I do not ordinarily engage much in such discussions (hard enough, and as you note it tends to be lengthy enough, to stick with just addressing what the law is and how it works).

If you are asserting that under the current law a removed-as-a-minor PR seeking to come to Canada to live and doing so expressly for the purpose of taking advantage of Canadian educational opportunities, should NECESSARILY lose PR status, that is simply NOT true, not what the current law is.

 

[lali77]

Hi,

Please confirm whether your daughter got the prtd.

Thanks

Hello all,

My spouse and my daughter entered Canada as PR in 2002 along with me and stayed on for 3 weeks. We received our PR cards then. We returned back in 2003 and stayed in Canada for around 5 months and then left Canada to our home country and did not return since. I continued my work in my home country. My spouse (house wife) and daughter (minor) are dependents. Our PR cards validity has expired and we do not meet the RO days.

Following are my queries:

1. My daughter will be 18 years next year. She wants to return back to Canada and continue her studies in a Canadian University in 2019. Can she apply for a PRTD on H&C grounds since she was a minor when she left Canada. Is there a chance that they gets a favourable response for the PRTD?
2. What is the validity of the PRTD (incase she gets it) before which she needs to enter Canada?
3. My spouse being a home maker is not working and is dependant. Can she too apply for a PRTD based on the reason that she had to be with my daughter and me since she was a dependent? Is there any chance for her request for PRTD to be accepted on these grounds?

Awaiting your responses and suggestions based on your experience.

Hi,
Can you please revert whether your daughter was given the prtd?

Thanks

 

[Pamelaluz84]

Mu

All what i have is my record of landing and old health insurance. How will my parents know? They are outside canada since that time 23 years ago.

My situation is exactly like yours.. the only difference is that now I have a husband and three kids... and it gets a bit more difficult for me to go back to Canada , but I have Hope. Please keep up, I would like to know how everything goes out for you. Best of luck !

 

[Pamelaluz84]

like i said having a PR status and maintaining the RO are two different things as per the policy
the fact is if someone did not meet his/her RO (for whatever reasons) and is trying to come back,
they are simply taking a late start. you simply cannot question their intentions

people dont just simply give up their immigration after spending money, time and efforts to abandon it later. they all have genuine reasons.
some people seem to have forgotten the purpose of such forums and use it as platform to vent our their anger on issue they do not seem to agree with - this is coming after seeing some really discouraging replies from the main contributors.

if someone has the information and knowledge , they had better use is to help and support and inform others, all while keeping aside their personal views. if they dont, all their post and replies and time spent will be worth "Nothing"

thank you

I’m so glad to hear this . My case is similar. We lived 11 years in Toronto, I grew up in Canada. When suddenly my parents decide to return to their home country. At my 14’s. I read I cannot keep my status , that i should of applied at 18. Today I’m 35 with a husband and three children.. I don’t have a humanitarian reason. I just find myself in a bad ecomic situation and would love a better one. I don’ t get why I don’t have an opportunity to live in Canada if I was a former PR. I personally don’ t want to Take advantage of the system or education ! I just want a better life for me and my kids ! I want to be a good citizen and pay taxes and contribute.

 

[Pamelaluz84]

I’m so glad to hear this . My case is similar. We lived 11 years in Toronto, I grew up in Canada. When suddenly my parents decide to return to their home country. At my 14’s. I read I cannot keep my status , that i should of applied at 18. Today I’m 35 with a husband and three children.. I don’t have a humanitarian reason. I just find myself in a bad ecomic situation and would love a better one. I don’ t get why I don’t have an opportunity to live in Canada if I was a former PR. I personally don’ t want to Take advantage of the system or education ! I just want a better life for me and my kids ! I want to be a good citizen and pay taxes and contribute.

Please tell me if I have chances and what should I do.

 

[asaeed100]

I’m so glad to hear this . My case is similar. We lived 11 years in Toronto, I grew up in Canada. When suddenly my parents decide to return to their home country. At my 14’s. I read I cannot keep my status , that i should of applied at 18. Today I’m 35 with a husband and three children.. I don’t have a humanitarian reason. I just find myself in a bad ecomic situation and would love a better one. I don’ t get why I don’t have an opportunity to live in Canada if I was a former PR. I personally don’ t want to Take advantage of the system or education ! I just want a better life for me and my kids ! I want to be a good citizen and pay taxes and contribute.

i suggest you discuss with a good lawyer.
inbox me if you would like me to suggest the ones who were willing to provide information without needless consultation

 

[steaky]

How will you support yourself without a SIN#?

There are many cash jobs available such as car wash, lawn mowing, snow removal. Do people care to ask for SIN#? He can even sell roast chestnut and homemade lemonade in the neighborhood.

 

[Bs65]

I’m so glad to hear this . My case is similar. We lived 11 years in Toronto, I grew up in Canada. When suddenly my parents decide to return to their home country. At my 14’s. I read I cannot keep my status , that i should of applied at 18. Today I’m 35 with a husband and three children.. I don’t have a humanitarian reason. I just find myself in a bad ecomic situation and would love a better one. I don’ t get why I don’t have an opportunity to live in Canada if I was a former PR. I personally don’ t want to Take advantage of the system or education ! I just want a better life for me and my kids ! I want to be a good citizen and pay taxes and contribute.

Assume that even if you were lucky enough to succeed with an H&C application or enter without being reported that it would only apply to you and not your husband plus kids. You could find yourself in Canada separated from them for some time until you could sponsor them through the PR process to join you.

As mentioned above you need a good immigration lawyer as opposed to just a public forum. A lawyer who will be honest about your chances as opposed to any speculation on this forum

 

[Pamelaluz84]

i suggest you discuss with a good lawyer.
inbox me if you would like me to suggest the ones who were willing to provide information without needless consultation

Yes please ..can you suggest?

 

[Pamelaluz84]

Assume that even if you were lucky enough to succeed with an H&C application or enter without being reported that it would only apply to you and not your husband plus kids. You could find yourself in Canada separated from them for some time until you could sponsor them through the PR process to join you.

As mentioned above you need a good immigration lawyer as opposed to just a public forum. A lawyer who will be honest about your chances as opposed to any speculation on this forum

Can you suggest any lawyers please

 

[scylla]

Hi,

Please confirm whether your daughter got the prtd.

Thanks






Hi,
Can you please revert whether your daughter was given the prtd?

Thanks

It was refused.

 

[atulkumar]

hello all,
I am Atulkumar . I also have the same case....
My spouse,my daughter and my son entered Canada as PR in 2009 along with me and stayed for 8 months . We received our PR cards then, We returned back to INDIA in June 2010 then they re-entered in Canada in November 2011 and stayed in Canada for around 7 months and then left Canada in June 2012 to our home country and did not return since they were in Canada for about 15-16 months. My spouse (house wife), daughter (minor) and son (minor) are dependents. Our PR cards validity expired in 2015.

Following are my queries:

1. My daughter will complete 20 years (i.e In 2020 (October)). She wants to return back to Canada and continue her studies in a Canadian University in 2020. Can she apply for a PRTD on H&C grounds since she was a minor when she left Canada? Is there a chance that they gets a favorable response for the PRTD?
2. What is the validity of the PRTD (in case she gets it) before which she needs to enter Canada?
3.My son will be 18 year( i.e in 2020(August)) .He also wants to return back to Canada and continue his further studies in a Canadian University in 2020. Can he apply for a PRTD on H&C grounds since he was a minor when he left Canada? Is there a chance that he gets a favorable response for the PRTD?
4. My spouse being a home maker is not working and is dependent. Can she too apply for a PRTD based on the reason that she had to be with my daughter /son and me since she was a dependent? Is there any chance for her request for PRTD to be accepted on these grounds?

Awaiting for your response and suggestions based on your experience.

 

[Irfan Kakwan]

What I know so far about your children's current status is they had "no say" in the decision making about leaving Canada, as they were minors then, now they are ofl legal age and want to go back. Years back I went through a document were a Judge had given a ruling in favor of children on similiar gounds. Remember key word to mention is "no say" about leaving Canada and that it was their parents decision. The earlier you put up your case after children turning 18, higher will be your chances. I wish you good luck, there is nothing wrong in giving it a chance, I personally hope you can succeed on the ground that I have mentioned above, better consult a professional Immigration service provider who is experienced in PRTD rules.

 

[canuck78]

hello all,
I am Atulkumar . I also have the same case....
My spouse,my daughter and my son entered Canada as PR in 2009 along with me and stayed for 8 months . We received our PR cards then, We returned back to INDIA in June 2010 then they re-entered in Canada in November 2011 and stayed in Canada for around 7 months and then left Canada in June 2012 to our home country and did not return since they were in Canada for about 15-16 months. My spouse (house wife), daughter (minor) and son (minor) are dependents. Our PR cards validity expired in 2015.

Following are my queries:

1. My daughter will complete 20 years (i.e In 2020 (October)). She wants to return back to Canada and continue her studies in a Canadian University in 2020. Can she apply for a PRTD on H&C grounds since she was a minor when she left Canada? Is there a chance that they gets a favorable response for the PRTD?
2. What is the validity of the PRTD (in case she gets it) before which she needs to enter Canada?
3.My son will be 18 year( i.e in 2020(August)) .He also wants to return back to Canada and continue his further studies in a Canadian University in 2020. Can he apply for a PRTD on H&C grounds since he was a minor when he left Canada? Is there a chance that he gets a favorable response for the PRTD?
4. My spouse being a home maker is not working and is dependent. Can she too apply for a PRTD based on the reason that she had to be with my daughter /son and me since she was a dependent? Is there any chance for her request for PRTD to be accepted on these grounds?

Awaiting for your response and suggestions based on your experience.

You have posted a variety of this story for year. The advice doesn’t change.