Appeal under H&C grounds since RO was not met

[dbag]

We (me and 3 immediate family members) entered Canada a few days ago via the Queenston bridge on a rented car on expired PR cards which were issued in 2013 and expired in 2018. We were initially flagged to secondary and asked why we didn't renounce our PRs voluntarily since we clearly didn't meet our RO and even told that there was possibility of being denied entry to Canada (we had only stayed in Canada for approx. 3.5 months from Aug.2013) . However since my dad was critically ill since end-2013 onwards and expired in April 2016, this fact was informed to the officers and certificate of death was shown to them and I also explained that I was caring for him continuously in India during his last days. We also told them we had return tickets to India in mid-Nov. since I am having a job there but would like to settle in Canada now.
Thereafter the officers had a long discussion and we were told to wait (this went on for a long time of approx. 2 hrs) after which we were called and told that we had to contact IRCC with our case and appeal on H&C grounds. Also we were asked whether we had close relatives in Canada which we replied in the negative. We were allowed to enter Canada and also informed that we could not apply for OHIP etc.
Now it is not clear whether we have been reported for RO violation to IRCC and if so, will we get our departure orders? If not, then is it wise to contact IRCC and appeal our case or leave our status as it is?

 

[scylla]

We (me and 3 immediate family members) entered Canada a few days ago via the Queenston bridge on a rented car on expired PR cards which were issued in 2013 and expired in 2018. We were initially flagged to secondary and asked why we didn't renounce our PRs voluntarily since we clearly didn't meet our RO and even told that there was possibility of being denied entry to Canada (we had only stayed in Canada for approx. 3.5 months from Aug.2013) . However since my dad was critically ill since end-2013 onwards and expired in April 2016, this fact was informed to the officers and certificate of death was shown to them and I also explained that I was caring for him continuously in India during his last days. We also told them we had return tickets to India in mid-Nov. since I am having a job there but would like to settle in Canada now.
Thereafter the officers had a long discussion and we were told to wait (this went on for a long time of approx. 2 hrs) after which we were called and told that we had to contact IRCC with our case and appeal on H&C grounds. Also we were asked whether we had close relatives in Canada which we replied in the negative. We were allowed to enter Canada and also informed that we could not apply for OHIP etc.
Now it is not clear whether we have been reported for RO violation to IRCC and if so, will we get our departure orders? If not, then is it wise to contact IRCC and appeal our case or leave our status as it is?

Were you given a piece of paper of any kind?

 

[dbag]

Were you given a piece of paper of any kind?

Thanks for your prompt reply.
No paper or email has been given yet.

 

[scylla]

Thanks for your prompt reply.
No paper or email has been given yet.

In that case is sounds to me like you were not reported. This means you have a chance to save your PR status. If this is what you want to do, you need to remain in Canada for 2 straight years without leaving so that you meet the residency requirement and can renew your PR cards.

 

[zardoz]

We (me and 3 immediate family members) entered Canada a few days ago via the Queenston bridge on a rented car on expired PR cards which were issued in 2013 and expired in 2018. We were initially flagged to secondary and asked why we didn't renounce our PRs voluntarily since we clearly didn't meet our RO and even told that there was possibility of being denied entry to Canada (we had only stayed in Canada for approx. 3.5 months from Aug.2013) . However since my dad was critically ill since end-2013 onwards and expired in April 2016, this fact was informed to the officers and certificate of death was shown to them and I also explained that I was caring for him continuously in India during his last days. We also told them we had return tickets to India in mid-Nov. since I am having a job there but would like to settle in Canada now.
Thereafter the officers had a long discussion and we were told to wait (this went on for a long time of approx. 2 hrs) after which we were called and told that we had to contact IRCC with our case and appeal on H&C grounds. Also we were asked whether we had close relatives in Canada which we replied in the negative. We were allowed to enter Canada and also informed that we could not apply for OHIP etc.
Now it is not clear whether we have been reported for RO violation to IRCC and if so, will we get our departure orders? If not, then is it wise to contact IRCC and appeal our case or leave our status as it is?

Is it possible that the comment "we had to contact IRCC with our case and appeal on H&C grounds" relates to the renewal of the PR cards, rather than the possible revocation of PR status?

According to the ENF 5 manual Section 11.3, someone at a Port of Entry should who has had an A44(1) report written, should be provided at the time with a copy of the report. Sounds like this didn't happen.

 

[dbag]

In that case is sounds to me like you were not reported. This means you have a chance to save your PR status. If this is what you want to do, you need to remain in Canada for 2 straight years without leaving so that you meet the residency requirement and can renew your PR cards.

Thanks for clarifying, I understand that I was most probably let off this time. However is there any other option than staying for 2 years straight in Canada since I need to visit the USA with my son next month and India also to wrap up matters. Can I try appealing to IRCC on H and C grounds since we appear to meet few of the criterion for H and C based PR renewal? Also why were we told that OHIP application was not possible if our PR status is still valid and not being revoked?

 

[dbag]

Is it possible that the comment "we had to contact IRCC with our case and appeal on H&C grounds" relates to the renewal of the PR cards, rather than the possible revocation of PR status?

According to the ENF 5 manual Section 11.3, someone at a Port of Entry should who has had an A44(1) report written, should be provided at the time with a copy of the report. Sounds like this didn't happen.

Yes, it seems that the officer might have referred to PR cards renewal, but it would have been best if PR renewal had been done on the spot on H and C grounds by CBSA instead of sending us to IRCC. Anyway, since we seem to have a strong case for H and C grounds renewal, should we appeal to IRCC for PR cards renewal whilst in Canada itself stating that we also have two children here to strengthen our case? What other facts can be included to strengthen our application?

 

[scylla]

Thanks for clarifying, I understand that I was most probably let off this time. However is there any other option than staying for 2 years straight in Canada since I need to visit the USA with my son next month and India also to wrap up matters. Can I try appealing to IRCC on H and C grounds since we appear to meet few of the criterion for H and C based PR renewal? Also why were we told that OHIP application was not possible if our PR status is still valid and not being revoked?

You can go the H&C route - however I don't see any chances of success based on the info provided. Your father passed away in 2016. You've remained outside of Canada for an additional three years for non H&C reasons. Note that employment and education reasons aren't accepted under H&C. Additionally, you never really established yourselves in Canada when you first arrived (i.e. only stayed for 3.5 months) - this will work against you.

IMO your one and only chance of saving your PR status is to change your plans and not travel outside of Canada for the next two years. If that's not possible, I would just renounce now rather than going through the trouble and uncertainty of H&C.

 

[scylla]

Yes, it seems that the officer might have referred to PR cards renewal, but it would have been best if PR renewal had been done on the spot on H and C grounds by CBSA instead of sending us to IRCC.

Also, FYI - CBSA cannot renew PR cards. Only IRCC can renew PR cards. On the spot renewal of your PR cards by CBSA was never possible.

 

[canuck78]

Thanks for clarifying, I understand that I was most probably let off this time. However is there any other option than staying for 2 years straight in Canada since I need to visit the USA with my son next month and India also to wrap up matters. Can I try appealing to IRCC on H and C grounds since we appear to meet few of the criterion for H and C based PR renewal? Also why were we told that OHIP application was not possible if our PR status is still valid and not being revoked?

Think that you were let off because you said you were only temporarily visiting Canada and showed your tickets home.

If you are going to be out of Ontario for one month in the next 6 months you don’t qualify for OHIP. There are specific residency obligations to qualify for OHIP even if you have a valid card.

 

[dbag]

You can go the H&C route - however I don't see any chances of success based on the info provided. Your father passed away in 2016. You've remained outside of Canada for an additional three years for non H&C reasons. Note that employment and education reasons aren't accepted under H&C. Additionally, you never really established yourselves in Canada when you first arrived (i.e. only stayed for 3.5 months) - this will work against you.

IMO your one and only chance of saving your PR status is to change your plans and not travel outside of Canada for the next two years. If that's not possible, I would just renounce now rather than going through the trouble and uncertainty of H&C.

Ok, but if there was no chance of success vide H&C route, why were we asked by CBSA to appeal to IRCC inside Canada and not informed of the
fultility of appealing? Also in 2013 we did open bank a/c, got SIN nos etc., applied for OHIP and tried to find jobs and went to settlement organisations etc. but had to leave just as things were falling in place due to Father's ill health. Also my mother had to undergo knee replacement surgeries in 2017 and 2018 for which I was unable to leave her alone in India and come to Canada.

Anyway I would not be able to stay in Canada for 2 years now continuously if OHIP and other benefits were not provided to me and my family since
private health insurance would not work for that long period.

 

[scylla]

Ok, but if there was no chance of success vide H&C route, why were we asked by CBSA to appeal to IRCC inside Canada and not informed of the
fultility of appealing? Also in 2013 we did open bank a/c, got SIN nos etc., applied for OHIP and tried to find jobs and went to settlement organisations etc. but had to leave just as things were falling in place due to Father's ill health. Also my mother had to undergo knee replacement surgeries in 2017 and 2018 for which I was unable to leave her alone in India and come to Canada.

Anyway I would not be able to stay in Canada for 2 years now continuously if OHIP and other benefits were not provided to me and my family since
private health insurance would not work for that long period.

CBSA isn't IRCC - they aren't the experts in immigration processes and aren't there to provide immigration advice. CBSA basically did you an absolutely massive favour by allowing you into Canada without formally reporting you to IRCC for failing to meet the residency requirement. You got as much out of CBSA as anyone could hope to get in your situation. Beyond that, it's really up to IRCC on whether they would consider renewing your PR cards under H&C. If you can't remain in Canada for 2 years, then you might as well roll the dice on H&C and renewing your PR card now.

For your mother's issues, you'll want to provide evidence of hospitalization and also letters from doctors stating she was unable to live alone. I'm also assuming you are a single child and your mother has no family members at all in India. You'll want to show evidence of that as well. Three years is a really long time to need to be with her for 2 knee surgeries. You'll have your work cut out for you showing this as evidence of H&C.

 

[canuck78]

Ok, but if there was no chance of success vide H&C route, why were we asked by CBSA to appeal to IRCC inside Canada and not informed of the
fultility of appealing? Also in 2013 we did open bank a/c, got SIN nos etc., applied for OHIP and tried to find jobs and went to settlement organisations etc. but had to leave just as things were falling in place due to Father's ill health. Also my mother had to undergo knee replacement surgeries in 2017 and 2018 for which I was unable to leave her alone in India and come to Canada.

Anyway I would not be able to stay in Canada for 2 years now continuously if OHIP and other benefits were not provided to me and my family since
private health insurance would not work for that long period.

Would add that you’ll need to show that you don’t have any family close-by that could have helped your mother not only just your potential siblings. Knee replacements have a pretty quick recovery period and then you move onto doing rehab and only really need help driving you to appointments and help with food shopping, maybe some cooking and cleaning. You can easily pay someone to do these chores. Your mother may already have a housekeeper and a cook. Were you working full-time from 2013 to 2019?

 

[vensak]

More improtantly, do you have any siblings? Sisters for example?

 

[canuck78]

More improtantly, do you have any siblings? Sisters for example?

Why would women need to be the caregivers?