Refugee status cessation and PRs applying for citizenship

[Kambs16]

Thanks so much for that detailed well founded analysis. Explains it well. Indeed I might be waiting long. If so then so be it. I will let you know the final outcome whenever it will be.

 

[Kamite]

Hi i m looking for some guidance

I got my pr as refugee in 2011 and i did renew my passport twice and traveled back home a couple of times and few trips to another country. I was unaware that merely renewing passport can cause cesseation and let alone the travel. I had renewed my pr dec 2017 without any problem eventhiugh i did provide all my back home travel information.

im now scared to apply for citizenship. I need to know about some expert lawyers that i can contact in this matter.

As well need to know from senior members that if my pr husband whom i sponsored can sponsor me in case of cesseation? Or my other options in case of cesseation as i have a established financial and married life with a baby here in canada.

Its stupid of me travel even for emergencies i guess but i didnt know that even after becoming u r not secure in our status.
Any advice and help will b appreciated as i dont want to give up my life here.

You have nothing to worry about. The thing is now you lost your protection, you are now in Canada legally a PR because you traveled to your country.

Take a look at this text that I copy through CIC.ca

There are 2 ways that refugee protection can be removed:

1. A person can cease to hold their refugee status [A108] if, for example, they voluntarily reavail themselves of the protection of their country of nationality or obtain protection from another country (citizenship).
2. A person can have their refugee status vacated [A109] if they obtained that status by directly or indirectly misrepresenting or withholding material facts relating to a relevant matter.

Applications for potential cessation or vacation of refugee protection may be referred to the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) for the following:

• protected persons (status conferred by the Immigration and Refugee Board [IRB] or by Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada [IRCC] as a resettled refugee), including those who have pending applications for permanent residence in Canada
• protected persons who are permanent residents of Canada

The Immigration and Refugee Protection Act allows for loss of permanent residence status if refugee protection ceases under A108(1)(a) to (d) and if there is a finding of inadmissibility under A40.1. There is no loss of permanent residence status if refugee protection is removed because of a change in country conditions [A108(1)(e)].

 

[dpenabill]

You have nothing to worry about. The thing is now you lost your protection, you are now in Canada legally a PR because you traveled to your country.

Take a look at this text that I copy through CIC.ca

There are 2 ways that refugee protection can be removed:

1. A person can cease to hold their refugee status [A108] if, for example, they voluntarily reavail themselves of the protection of their country of nationality or obtain protection from another country (citizenship).
2. A person can have their refugee status vacated [A109] if they obtained that status by directly or indirectly misrepresenting or withholding material facts relating to a relevant matter.

Applications for potential cessation or vacation of refugee protection may be referred to the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) for the following:

• protected persons (status conferred by the Immigration and Refugee Board [IRB] or by Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada [IRCC] as a resettled refugee), including those who have pending applications for permanent residence in Canada
• protected persons who are permanent residents of Canada

The Immigration and Refugee Protection Act allows for loss of permanent residence status if refugee protection ceases under A108(1)(a) to (d) and if there is a finding of inadmissibility under A40.1. There is no loss of permanent residence status if refugee protection is removed because of a change in country conditions [A108(1)(e)].

It is not clear what your post is attempting to offer, or why you are offering this here.

The first statement, in particular, is at odds with the rest of the post. That is, you post "You have nothing to worry about." And then offer just the surface of what is discussed in many posts above, in more detail with links to sources, which is precisely about WHY there MIGHT be reason to worry.

That first statement is followed by one that makes little or perhaps NO sense: "The thing is now you lost your protection, you are now in Canada legally a PR because you traveled to your country."

In any event, the individual you purport to assure has "nothing to worry about" reports (in the post you quote) engaging in conduct that could be grounds for cessation of protected person status under at least Section 108(1)(a) IRPA.

In particular, this individual reports having renewed the home country passport, and the UNHCR guidelines (which Canada follows in these cases) provide that there is a PRESUMPTION of REAVAILMENT if the protected person obtains a home country passport (and Section 108(1)(a) IRPA specifically prescribes reavailment is grounds for cessation). This presumption may be rebutted BUT the use of the passport, and especially using it to travel to the home country, has been a big factor in how CBSA and IRCC have approached this issue.

Cessation of protected person status pursuant to Section 108(1)(a) AUTOMATICALLY (with NO further process involved) TERMINATES PR STATUS. This is a very big deal . . . the question is whether CBSA will pursue cessation or not. (See previous posts for more discussion about this.)

There are numerous ACTUAL cases discussed in previous posts in this topic. How the cessation provisions affect this or that specific PR with protected person status is UNCERTAIN in many important respects. The RISKS are real. The potential consequences are SERIOUS.

This is NOT a subject for which casual "nothing to worry about" messages are appropriate.

 

[Kambs16]

I have a question. Since my test abd interview..my ecas still shows" in process" Assuming my file was forwarded for commencement of cessation proceedings, would it not show on hold. I called CIC a couple weeks ago and they said It's not on hold and i should wait to hear the next step from them. Of course he didn't say what that step would be. I have received no requests or communication from them since.
What is this likely to mean in my case.?

 

[Fallen_Warrior]

I have a question. Since my test abd interview..my ecas still shows" in process" Assuming my file was forwarded for commencement of cessation proceedings, would it not show on hold. I called CIC a couple weeks ago and they said It's not on hold and i should wait to hear the next step from them. Of course he didn't say what that step would be. I have received no requests or communication from them since.
What is this likely to mean in my case.?

I think you won't even know for a while if they have started cessation against you. ECAS status won't change.

I sincerely pray for you my friend that nothing happens to you and your file gets processed normally.

Down side is that it might take some time (maybe months or years) before you even know that cessation has been triggered against you. Until then your ecas will show in-process but your file will be eating dust (hopefully not).

You must stay ready to take them FC by mandamus application.

Did you get any response CBSA still?

You are lucky that atleast you got your test and and interview. In 11 years I never went back home and still its 13+ months and no test invite for me. Its stuck with CSIS background checks.

 

[dpenabill]

In addition to observations by @Fallen_Warrior . . .

I have a question. Since my test abd interview..my ecas still shows" in process" Assuming my file was forwarded for commencement of cessation proceedings, would it not show on hold. I called CIC a couple weeks ago and they said It's not on hold and i should wait to hear the next step from them. Of course he didn't say what that step would be. I have received no requests or communication from them since.
What is this likely to mean in my case.?

At this stage this is an attempt to read tea leaves. There is no "LIKELY" meaning one way or another.

Unless and until there is a DECISION-MADE, there is no definitive indicator. Or, unless a decision to pursue cessation proceedings is made and you are made aware of this (a negative definitive indicator).

In the meantime, short of getting notice of Decision-Made (which would most likely be a positive decision), continuing to be "in process" is relatively good news, to be taken cautiously.

It is my sense, albeit I do NOT KNOW this, probably better to let this ride . . . for the most part it is now what it is, and it is unlikely you can do anything now which will push the odds in a more favourable direction, so it probably is NOT worth poking the system at the risk of nudging the odds in a negative direction.

That is, either you will be getting notification of a Decision-made, followed by notice of when and where to attend an oath ceremony . . . or your case is being reviewed or assessed for the purpose of determining whether to make a referral for a CBSA cessation investigation. Poking the system is NOT likely to accelerate or result in the former. And NOT likely to preclude the latter. Does it risk provoking the latter? Provoking a referral for investigating cessation? I do not know. But I am sure that if there is any risk of that, that is a risk you probably want to avoid.

The anxiety is hard, no doubt. My sense is that there is good reason to be hopeful. But sure, that is a for-what-it's-worth sense . . . would be interested to hear what a lawyer's opinion about this is.

 

[Kambs16]

Sorry for the long wait of 13+ months. I'm sure yours will come through soon.
The reason I asked is because I recall reading that when a cessation is being initiated, they usually need to send some info to CBSA like clear photocopies of passport which was not done and i havent been asked. In my interview the officer also said she would request a record of movt from me but i haven't received that request yet and its been 5 weeks now. So it gets more confusing by the day. I also read that for cessation they do not waste time starting the process and the federal court ruled that it is unlawful to have such applications put on hold. One can never know.

 

[Kambs16]

I agree I can't do much. I only called with hope that they would tell me what is going on but as you say I should not and I agree. I will carry on waiting for any communication. After all people wait for an oath for months anyway. When it hits the one year mark I will make a follow up if I haven't heard anything by then.

 

[dpenabill]

The reason I asked is because I recall reading that when a cessation is being initiated, they usually need to send some info to CBSA like clear photocopies of passport which was not done and i havent been asked. In my interview the officer also said she would request a record of movt from me but i haven't received that request yet and its been 5 weeks now. So it gets more confusing by the day. I also read that for cessation they do not waste time starting the process and the federal court ruled that it is unlawful to have such applications put on hold. One can never know.

While I am not sure which Federal Court decision you are referring to, about putting hold on citizenship application processing, my guess is that it is an older one applying the Citizenship Act before it was amended (in 2014) to specifically allow IRCC to "suspend the processing of an application" in certain situations (the decision likely dealing with the previous law even if the case itself is more recent than 2014). As I recall, even though part of the big Harper "reform" of the Citizenship Act in 2014, that particular provision was adopted precisely in response to Federal Court decisions.

Or, there was one case I vaguely recall in which a FC ruled the suspension (hold) was procedurally unfair in the particular circumstances of that case.

But in any event, apart from the law now allowing a formal hold, or "suspension of processing," the processing of a citizenship application may be suspended in effect, on hold in a practical sense, with no formal "hold" as such, pending various inquiries, including background inquiries. Since a lot about how IRCC actually does these things is behind the curtain behind closed doors, there is NOT much we know about how this goes in a practical sense.

And these days just the queue for the standard review conducted by a Citizenship Officer can be a rather long queue, making it very difficult to discern if and when there is a particular non-routine procedure involved.


Regarding this: "I also read that for cessation they do not waste time starting the process . . . "

If you have what you consider to be other reliable sources about this process, a reference or link would be appreciated.

I am not sure what this means in a practical sense. I can say, however, that for the few actual cases we know some details about, in at least some of them the processing timelines have been remarkably LONG . . . including a very long timeline just to make the decision whether to actually initiate the cessation process AFTER IRCC has referred an inquiry to CBSA.

As @Fallen_Warrior observed, it really can take a long time to learn what will happen. As I have previously observed, this itself is profoundly unfair and unjust, a big part of why the current law really needs to be changed. Given what is at stake, what is hanging over the heads of anyone tangled in this issue, the pressure, the anxiety, is heavy and unfair.

I do not know what to suggest in terms of stress management, other than emphasizing that "in process" itself is a hopeful sign, and other than to discourage any counter-productive self-medicating approaches. . . .
. . . Platitudes are not worth a lot in such situations. Nonetheless I will offer this: take care and be safe.

 

[Kambs16]

Thanks dpenabill for your continued support and advice, fallen warrior and the rest.
So what led me to the thought that perhaps my application wasnt refered to cbsa for potential cessation but could have been refered to another authority within IRCC for further decision is in this link below from tge govermment page. It states that for a file to be refered to CBSA by IRCC, copies copies of all immigration documents need to be attached.,which in my case none were, if at all.,neither have they been requested yet. Im presuming that would be clear copies of all my passport pages and possibly landing card etc. At one point in the interview.,she said she would request for colour copies of all passport pages but request hasnt been recieved. I'm doing my best here to try and read into the situation as much as possible. This is the link https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/refugee-protection/vacation.html.
The link also states that it must be a serious issue for them to consider cessation. Prob like evidence tht a refugee has returned home to settle.
I will also find the link to the document that states that cessation cases are dealt with quickly is here. Though its not an official govt website so perhaps we cannot be certain. However another govt link i read (because trust me i have been reading a lot on the subject lately) says if decisions on such things are done internally..like whether it would be refered for cessation, then the citizenship judges usually have a time limit of 60 days to make the decision of whether to refer to CBSA. I don't believe the decision rests entirely upon the interviewer. Even the above link says he or she has to refer to her supervisor first. There is an internal protocol of sorts.
I continue to have hope. Especially given that my reasons of travel were understandable, which the interviewer hinted on. The wait continues. Though I quit holding my breath so that I get that pleasant surprise one of these days, otherwise you can end up counting every second of every day. My faith will carry me through and I will carry on life as normal meanwhile. I believe it will end well.

 

[Kambs16]

Excuse my typing errors.

 

[dpenabill]

This is the link https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/refugee-protection/vacation.html.
The link also states that it must be a serious issue for them to consider cessation.

The link to the relevant PDI (which in turn also includes further links to other relevant information) is good information AND VERY HELPFUL. So thank you.

The link you provide is worth repeating for emphasis:

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/refugee-protection/vacation.html

And more to your particular situation, this PDI suggests a relatively balanced, judicious, and tolerant approach that does not mechanically apply the presumption of reavailment (as provided in the UNHCR guidelines). It in effect explains reported examples of apparent leniency.

BUT it offers NO guarantee. Which leaves you not knowing how this will for sure go. My guess is this is going to be OK. But my guesses might not be worth all that much. And it could take awhile. But I agree, you have reason to say you "believe it will end well." (And IF you happen to be a resettlement refugee, these PDIs should be particularly encouraging; more regarding this below.)

That said, it is still too soon, even, to know whether the Citizenship Officer will follow up with requests for full colour copies of all passport pages, record of movement, or other documents. Remember, even some fully routine applications are running into rather lengthy timelines after the test and interview.

I know you probably cannot avoid running the interview through your head again and again, trying to glean meaning or direction from what was said. BUT your interviewer was probably just an official, a processing agent, and NOT the Citizenship Officer responsible for your file, NOT the Citizenship Officer who will make decisions like whether to make those requests for a full copy of your passport or record of movement, or the decision whether to refer the case to CBSA. That is, regardless what the interviewer was thinking, these decisions will probably be made by someone else.


Good Sign but . . . .

As I noted, what the PDI says offers NO guarantee. And given that presumption, that merely obtaining a home country passport supports a presumption of reavailment, there may be a relatively low threshold for referring the matter to CBSA; the PDI states:

"IRCC refers cases to the CBSA for potential cessation when an officer obtains evidence or facts suggesting that an applicant, for example, re-availed themselves of the protection of their country of nationality or obtained protection from another country."​

. . . and it is CBSA which is restrained in who is actually then subjected to a cessation proceeding. This could indeed mean a relatively long wait to see what happens next. My guess is the odds are still fairly good that there will not be a referral to CBSA, in which event the next step is likely being scheduled for the oath (which could still be months, or many months away). Note too the file is quite likely in queue and it could be months before a Citizenship Officer even makes that decision about whether to refer the case or not.

But even if there is a referral . . . the substance of the PDI offers plenty of reason to hope there will be no cessation proceedings. That is, even if CBSA investigates, there is good reason to hope CBSA will decide to NOT pursue cessation.

It is also worth further noting that in the event cessation proceedings are commenced, you get an opportunity to be heard, to make your case. Recent statistics indicate more than a few cessation actions are withdrawn or have results favourable for the protected person.


SOME GENERAL OBSERVATIONS BASED ON THE PDIs:

That statement, which appears to state the threshold for referring the matter to CBSA, indicating a referral if the circumstances merely SUGGEST reavailment, is in stark contrast to another PDI statement which explicitly acknowledges refugees often temporarily revisit the home country:

"Many refugees return to their home country temporarily for a variety of reasons (e.g., to visit sick relatives, to tie up business, to see the situation and assess whether or not it is safe to repatriate). Such returns do not necessarily mean that they can safely re-establish in that country . . . "​

The latter statement is in the PDI which is expressly about cessation in reference to resettlement refugees.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/refugee-protection/resettlement/processing-vacation.html

But it states what is more or less obviously true. About any refugee or protected person, even those who are not resettlement refugees. And this acknowledgement inherently rests on a recognition that temporary visits to the home country do not necessarily mean the risks or dangers constituting grounds for obtaining protected person status are diminished let alone gone.

Moreover, the full context for this particular statement has to do with refugees who have made MISREPRESENTATIONS about visiting the home country. This PDI statement, acknowledging that "many refugees" return to the home country, is made in the context of a policy to NOT investigate these refugees even if they have made a misrepresentation about it!


FURTHER OBSERVATIONS and LESS RISK of CESSATION for RESETTLEMENT REFUGEES:

There is undoubtedly a lot more to be gleaned from these PDIs and others linked . . . while not directly relevant here, the link to description of Personal Information Banks is very interesting and illustrates the very broad expanse of information collected about us and its storage and sharing with not only other government bodies but foreign governments as well . . . noting that some information collected is stored for 150 years! (And even after that might be further stored in archives.)

But a rather important aspect of the cessation issue, that I learned from these PDIs, is the big difference depending on whether the refugee is a "resettlement" refugee or not. The separate PDI for resettlement refugees clearly expresses a preference to NOT pursue cessation unless there is a strong case . . . not merely circumstances "suggesting" reavailment, which is the stated standard for an IRCC referral to CBSA regarding possible cessation action. The PDI states:

An application to cease or vacate a resettled refugee’s protected person status should only be made when there is very strong prima facie evidence to justify such proceedings.​

REMINDER: information like this further illustrates that I really am a long, long way short of being an expert.

These PDIs reveal, for example, this huge difference between resettlement refugees and those granted refugee status after making an in-Canada asylum application. I was NOT aware of this difference. I am still NOT sure how much difference it makes if the resettlement refugee has obtained a home country passport after obtaining PR status in Canada. But it appears to still make a very big difference.

It warrants repeating what the PDI about "Cessation and vacation in the resettlement context" states:

An application to cease or vacate a resettled refugee’s protected person status should only be made when there is very strong prima facie evidence to justify such proceedings.

It would go against the objectives of the resettlement program, which aims to fully integrate resettled refugees into Canadian society and to provide a lasting solution to their displacement, if a climate of fear were created due to the potential loss of protected person status.​

Thus, notwithstanding there is still NO GUARANTEE, it clearly appears those who are refugees pursuant to resettlement (I will leave explaining what this means to others who understand the variable ways of being a refugee better than I do) PROBABLY HAVE LESS REASON TO WORRY despite obtaining a home country passport and traveling home . . . unless the travel home was very soon after becoming a Canadian PR, or the travel home was of a nature and duration indicating some level of resettlement in the home country.

 

[Kambs16]

Woww thanks for that info.! I'm sure going to digest it all. For now what i can say is that I'm not a resettlement refugee. I made an in-canada assylum application which granted me convention refugee status, if that is anything to go by.
On the other hand my reasons for travel were stated as death in the family and i didn't spend long enough there for there to be any suspicion of resettling. I also didnt travel soon after being granted assylum. It took 3.5 yrs to make that first trip which i doubt can be interpreted as "soon after" so lets hope these facts play in my favour.
Thanks so much for the useful info. I will read through all the links.

 

[salem10]

Hi all, My question is to dpenabill and other expert people here.
I remember that I got my home country passport back in 2015 when I landed as PR on In Canada Convention Refugee basis. Now, I want to apply for CitizenShip. I and my family have 1500-1600 days. I have a few trips to other countries (Not my home country). I use all the time the Canadian Travel Document. Those documents are only issued for 2 years validity and now I have only the recent one. Passport Canada does not return the expired ones even I asked to return expired ones.
So, in my citizenship application, I don't have my home country passport (I could not find them). They are expired very long. I do have only the current valid Canadian Travel Document. I do proof of my trips: such as airlines tickets and hotel reservations. Those are three short trips to attend scientific conferences.

Is there any issue in applying for citizenship as I don't have my home country passport? To add those passports were very old expired (2013) before my eligibility period. I do have some photocopies of some pages taken by CIC when they seized them as part of my refugee claim process.

Second question, how long valid PR Card need when applying for Citizenship?
Thank you

 

[dpenabill]

Hi all, My question is to dpenabill and other expert people here.
I remember that I got my home country passport back in 2015 when I landed as PR on In Canada Convention Refugee basis. Now, I want to apply for CitizenShip. I and my family have 1500-1600 days. I have a few trips to other countries (Not my home country). I use all the time the Canadian Travel Document. Those documents are only issued for 2 years validity and now I have only the recent one. Passport Canada does not return the expired ones even I asked to return expired ones.
So, in my citizenship application, I don't have my home country passport (I could not find them). They are expired very long. I do have only the current valid Canadian Travel Document. I do proof of my trips: such as airlines tickets and hotel reservations. Those are three short trips to attend scientific conferences.

Is there any issue in applying for citizenship as I don't have my home country passport? To add those passports were very old expired (2013) before my eligibility period. I do have some photocopies of some pages taken by CIC when they seized them as part of my refugee claim process.

Second question, how long valid PR Card need when applying for Citizenship?
Thank you

I am NO expert. Especially as to how things work for refugees in particular. For example, I do NOT know much about how the special PR-refugee Travel Document works in practice. I am just familiar with the fact that it is the appropriate Travel Document to be used by Canadian PR-refugees.

IN GENERAL, the citizenship applicant's travel documents are considered important evidence and IRCC wants to examine them. This includes any and all passports or other types of Travel Documents which were at all valid or could have otherwise been used during the applicant's eligibility period. The current application form instructs applicants to list all such documents and identify which, if any, the applicant cannot provide. And explain why the document is not available.

Presenting all such documents is NOT a qualifying requirement, as such. Many applicants fail to have this or that Travel Document. They identify them. They explain why they do not have the document. And IRCC evaluates this in conjunction with all the other information and evidence. Whether failing to present one or more such documents has a negative influence in how things go, or more to the point, the extent to which failing to present one or more such documents has a negative influence in how things go, can vary by a lot . . . depending on the other facts and circumstances.

The main thing is whether or not the situation raises questions about the applicant's accounting of days present in Canada. If IRCC is satisfied the applicant meets the presence requirement, that is what matters.


REGARDING VALIDITY DATE of PR CARD:

I am not sure what you are asking. It is ordinarily better to have a valid PR card when applying for citizenship but it is NOT a requirement. If the card is expired that has NO effect on the PR's status.

Many applying for citizenship will want to keep a valid PR card pending processing of their citizenship application, in case they travel abroad while the application is pending. But it is not necessary to renew the PR card and many others do not bother (I did not . . . and I let my PR card expire before I took the oath, although mine was valid when I applied for citizenship).

I do not know if a PR-refugee with the special PR-refugee Travel Document needs to also have the PR card when traveling abroad.