Need help! Procedural fairness letter. Thank you!

[hamiltonli]

Hi everyone,
Thanks in advance for entering this post.

I submitted my EE application a back in November and received this letter today: (company name blurred)

You declared the following work experience in your Express Entry profile:  2017-07 to 2018-11 - Digital marketing - junior (NOC: 1123) - at XXX Consultants Group Ltd. Per Ministerial Instructions 15(7)(b), a period of self-employment is not to be included in calculating a period of Canadian work experience. The documents that you submitted do not support that you are paid employee of XXX Consultants Group Ltd. vs. a self-employed worker (contracted by XXX Consultants Group Ltd.).  Please provide additional evidence supporting that you are not a self-employed worker (contracted by XXX Consultants Group Ltd.).

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So here's more context:
I started working at a bank back in July 2017 however the bank hires contractors through a hiring agency. In the job letter provided, it clearly stated that I work full-time hours and with the annual salary included. Because by the time I submitted the application in Dec, 2018, I don't have 2018's t4 yet thus I provided 6-month's paystub for 2018 and 2017's t4. I converted to a full-time employee by the bank in Dec, 2018 and the job title did change but not the responsibilities of the role.

I've read from other posts that this is a really bad sign - equivalent of a refusal. Wondering if that's ture? But either way I will try my best to explain it. Here're two solutions I have now please help to evaluate them:

A:
1. Provide 2 t4 forms I have for 2018 (employers are the hiring agency and the bank for the short duration in Dec)
2. 2018 tax assessment form
3. 2018 option c - income statement
4. Full-time offer letter from the bank (effection from Dec,2018)
5. A reference letter from my manager during that time
6. Record of employment (from the hiring agency)
7. Any supporting documents that the hiring agency might be able to provide

Cons of this solution:
Adds additional confusion because my job title did change but not the responsibilities. It may be challenging for the officers to understand the differences of digital marketing roles

B:
1. 2018 t4 from the hiring agency (Covers the entire period the job letter mentioned in the application)
2. Record of employment (from the hiring agency)
3.Any supporting documents that the hiring agency might be able to provide
4. A reference letter from my manager during that time


Sorry again for the long email but I'd really appreciate your help.

 

[navinball]

Option A. They don't care about titles, only job duties.

 

[hamiltonli]

Option A. They don't care about titles, only job duties.

Thanks for the reply and the time you spent reading this.
Based on the likes it seems you're a very established member of the forum. From your past experience, does this happen often to people or is it a "bad sign"?

 

[Mesh2003]

You are only talking about documents for 2018. What about documents for July 2017 to December 2017?

 

[naten]

any idea why they misunderstood your work exp to a self-employed one?

 

[hamiltonli]

You are only talking about documents for 2018. What about documents for July 2017 to December 2017?

Hi there,

I've already submitted t4 from July 2017 to Dec 2017 in the application. On the t4 the employer clearly states the hiring agency's name.
By the time I submitted the application I didnt receive 2018's t4 yet.

 

[hamiltonli]

any idea why they misunderstood your work exp to a self-employed one?

To be honest I have no idea. They didn't mention why but stated that they are "seriously concerned about it and want me to submit supporting documents to ally their concerns.

 

[Shahanastar]

To be honest I have no idea. They didn't mention why but stated that they are "seriously concerned about it and want me to submit supporting documents to ally their concerns.

Does your employment reference letter state that you’re a contractual employee? Or your services are on contract basis? Something on these lines?

 

[zardoz]

If the "hiring agency" supplies contract workers to a company on an "ad hoc" basis, it may be considered by IRCC that the employment is not a full-time salaried position, regardless of how it actually worked for this applicant.

 

[Shikster]

To be honest I have no idea. They didn't mention why but stated that they are "seriously concerned about it and want me to submit supporting documents to ally their concerns.

I think what may have resulted in them thinking you were self-employed is the term "contract employee" but t4s should indicate to them, along with the description and relationship of your employment, that you may not be self-employed. If that is their concern, provide information that shows you are an employee, as defined by the employment act (I wish I remember the exact act to better guide you). I would hope that providing them information showing that you are employed, not self-employed (if that is the main issue for possible refusal), this would solve the problem.

 

[hamiltonli]

Does your employment reference letter state that you’re a contractual employee? Or your services are on contract basis? Something on these lines?

I interviewed with the bank directly and they hired me through the agency. It's very common for banks to hire people on a contract base first until they have spots for full-time positions. So for the bank, I'm a contractor hired by the hiring agency. To the hiring agency, I'm a temporary employee. But either way on the t4 I have, in the employer section it states the hiring agency's name.

 

[hamiltonli]

If the "hiring agency" supplies contract workers to a company on an "ad hoc" basis, it may be considered by IRCC that the employment is not a full-time salaried position, regardless of how it actually worked for this applicant.

Thanks. My plan is to be as accountable and transparent as possible to provide them all the record I have regarding my employment history from July 2017 till today. Including contract extension letters and full-time job offer from the bank, they converted me to full-time.
What do you think is a good way to approach this? Thanks!

 

[hamiltonli]

I think what may have resulted in them thinking you were self-employed is the term "contract employee" but t4s should indicate to them, along with the description and relationship of your employment, that you may not be self-employed. If that is their concern, provide information that shows you are an employee, as defined by the employment act (I wish I remember the exact act to better guide you). I would hope that providing them information showing that you are employed, not self-employed (if that is the main issue for possible refusal), this would solve the problem.

Thank for the thorough information. By the time I submitted my application, I haven't received 2018's t4 yet not sure if that's something they want to verify. Does this happen commonly to applicants?

Also I'm planning to include every single pay stub I have from July 2017, including the ones after I coverted to full-time, from the bank.
How do you think I should approach this?

 

[skape7]

Since self-employed work does not qualify for CEC, IRCC's concern is clear - they want to distinguish if you were a 'employee' or a 'contract hire'. The latter does not require the employer to deduct Employees Insurance (EI) premiums, CPP/ QPP contributions and Federal Income tax.
So your response should primarily focus on documents that provide direct evidence of your being an 'employee'.
Does your Paystub (as well as your T4) show amounts deducted for Employees Insurance (EI) premiums, CPP/ QPP contributions and Federal Income tax?
If yes, it will be easier to show you were an 'Employee' versus a 'Contract' hire.
Since the tax filing deadline is only a day or two away, you should have received your T4's from your employer. The T4 is likely to be more convincing than just a pay stub as its simply harder to fake. So apart from the other documents you intend to submit - make sure to include your T4's and cover this logic in a solid Letter of explanation (LOE).

 

[hamiltonli]

Thank you

Since self-employed work does not qualify for CEC, IRCC's concern is clear - they want to distinguish if you were a 'employee' or a 'contract hire'. The latter does not require the employer to deduct Employees Insurance (EI) premiums, CPP/ QPP contributions and Federal Income tax.
So your response should primarily focus on documents that provide direct evidence of your being an 'employee'.
Does your Paystub (as well as your T4) show amounts deducted for Employees Insurance (EI) premiums, CPP/ QPP contributions and Federal Income tax?
If yes, it will be easier to show you were an 'Employee' versus a 'Contract' hire.
Since the tax filing deadline is only a day or two away, you should have received your T4's from your employer. The T4 is likely to be more convincing than just a pay stub as its simply harder to fake. So apart from the other documents you intend to submit - make sure to include your T4's and cover this logic in a solid Letter of explanation (LOE).

Thank you so much for the answer.
As you mentioned, I did receive 2018's t4 and will include that in the supporting documents together with all the paystubs, on which it clearly states the EI and CPP amount.

Below is a planned table of content I'm going to reply back to them, do you mind to give it a read and let me know if there's anything important I might have missed? Appreciate the help here.
Table of content

Letter of explanation ( In which I will include all the important time point (contract extension/pay raise/and full-time conversion to the bank)

Reference letter (from direct manager)

2018 T4 forms

2018 Notice of assessment

2018 Proof of income statement

Hiring agency initial offer letter

Pay raise notice

Hiring agency employment extension letters

Bank offer (full-time position conversion in Dec,2018)

Bank reference letter

All pay stubs from July 2017