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Help me figure this out

  • Thread starter Deleted member 103187
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Deleted member 103187

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According the resident Calculator, I am eligible for citizenship with 1101 days as at today 7/1/2019.
I want to apply at the end of the month so I have some extra buffer days. However when I enter the date for 31/1/2019, it still shows me 1101 days. I should have more days if my application date is at the end of the month rather than today so what is wrong?
Does the calculator have a bug? Am I missing something? Can someone play around with the calculator and let me know what the issue might be?

Thanks in advance
 

PMM

VIP Member
Jun 30, 2005
25,494
1,950
Hi

According the resident Calculator, I am eligible for citizenship with 1101 days as at today 7/1/2019.
I want to apply at the end of the month so I have some extra buffer days. However when I enter the date for 31/1/2019, it still shows me 1101 days. I should have more days if my application date is at the end of the month rather than today so what is wrong?
Does the calculator have a bug? Am I missing something? Can someone play around with the calculator and let me know what the issue might be?

Thanks in advance
1. No, bug, you can't use a future date.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
According the resident Calculator, I am eligible for citizenship with 1101 days as at today 7/1/2019.
I want to apply at the end of the month so I have some extra buffer days. However when I enter the date for 31/1/2019, it still shows me 1101 days. I should have more days if my application date is at the end of the month rather than today so what is wrong?
Does the calculator have a bug? Am I missing something? Can someone play around with the calculator and let me know what the issue might be?

Thanks in advance
There are multiple possible explanations.

One is that your current calculation includes days nearly five years old and those days drop out of the calculation going forward (only days within the preceding five years count).

Another is that you are relying on Pre-landing credit for which the maximum is 365 days credit, which of course requires 730 days actual presence, and of course all those 765 days also must be within five years of the application date.

That said, if all your pre-PR credit is based on time in Canada within the five years (so none of it is is falling out of the calculation going forward), staying additional days should add a half day at a time so at the end of the month it should give some days in addition to those you have as of now.

CAUTION: the online calculator WORKS as long as you enter the dates accurately. My sense is that your scenario likely is one in which it really will be a good idea to have well more than just a few days margin over the minimum. So it is likely important to approach this cautiously and NOT rush applying.
 

keesio

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May 16, 2012
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Remember that it is looking back at a 5 year window. As that window moves, older days in Canada that now fall before that 5 year window would get dropped from the calculation. But if you are currently in Canada as that window moves, you would also gain a day. Hence the net would be 0 gain.

Hence your example. On 7/1/2019, you will have 1101 days. If you wait until 31/1/2019 to apply, you would gain +24 days. But then you can no longer count days spend in Canada from 7/1/2014 to 30/1/2014 since your 5 year window will start from 31/1/2014. If you were in Canada during that whole time, then you would lose all those days that was in the calculation for a 7/1/2019 application. Hence for every day you gained going forward, you lost a day that no longer fit into the 5 year window. The only way you would gain days is when you reach a stretch where earlier days NOT spent in Canada drop out of your 5 year window WHILE you continue to stay in Canada. Then you would start gaining days.
 
D

Deleted member 103187

Guest
Remember that it is looking back at a 5 year window. As that window moves, older days in Canada that now fall before that 5 year window would get dropped from the calculation. But if you are currently in Canada as that window moves, you would also gain a day. Hence the net would be 0 gain.

Hence your example. On 7/1/2019, you will have 1101 days. If you wait until 31/1/2019 to apply, you would gain +24 days. But then you can no longer count days spend in Canada from 7/1/2014 to 30/1/2014 since your 5 year window will start from 31/1/2014. If you were in Canada during that whole time, then you would lose all those days that was in the calculation for a 7/1/2019 application. Hence for every day you gained going forward, you lost a day that no longer fit into the 5 year window. The only way you would gain days is when you reach a stretch where earlier days NOT spent in Canada drop out of your 5 year window WHILE you continue to stay in Canada. Then you would start gaining days.
KEESIO, YOU ARE THE MAN!!!! THIS MAKES PERFECT SENSE TO ME.

@PMM, Actually you can use future dates for the residence calculator. I have done so in the past

@3bdcanada, yes, you're right

@dpenabill. Thank you for chiming in as usual. Much appreciated. I am not using pre-PR days. I became PR Dec 2013, so all my calculations are post PR (5 yrs out)

So this is my next question, I have as at last count 361 exits/entries - all to the US. I work in the US but come home to Canada everyday (or at least every other day) How do I increase my Physical presence days? I was hoping to get extra cushion days before applying. Does that mean I should just go ahead and apply since waiting will not give me those extra days?
FYI and FWIW - I kept detailed account of entries and exits for the most part (but I cant say it was 100%) and I recently renewed PR card with no issues
 

keesio

VIP Member
May 16, 2012
4,795
396
Toronto, Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
09-01-2013
Doc's Request.
09-07-2013
AOR Received.
30-01-2013
File Transfer...
11-02-2013
Med's Done....
02-01-2013
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
12-07-2013
VISA ISSUED...
15-08-2013
LANDED..........
14-10-2013
So this is my next question, I have as at last count 361 exits/entries - all to the US. I work in the US but come home to Canada everyday (or at least every other day) How do I increase my Physical presence days?
You would need to stay in Canada and hold off on applying until some of FULL days spent out of Canada slide out of your 5 year window. That is the only way you would be able to increase your physical presence days. It would be up to you if you want to wait for this.
 
D

Deleted member 103187

Guest
You would need to stay in Canada and hold off on applying until some of FULL days spent out of Canada slide out of your 5 year window. That is the only way you would be able to increase your physical presence days. It would be up to you if you want to wait for this.
Unfortunately this would not happen until mid June 2019. I ordered an ATIP report because of my extensive border crossings. I will review it when it comes in the next few days and then decide what to do next. Thanks
 

keesio

VIP Member
May 16, 2012
4,795
396
Toronto, Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
09-01-2013
Doc's Request.
09-07-2013
AOR Received.
30-01-2013
File Transfer...
11-02-2013
Med's Done....
02-01-2013
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
12-07-2013
VISA ISSUED...
15-08-2013
LANDED..........
14-10-2013
Unfortunately this would not happen until mid June 2019. I ordered an ATIP report because of my extensive border crossings. I will review it when it comes in the next few days and then decide what to do next. Thanks
You said you are not 100% sure of your entry/exit records. But if you are like 98% sure, I say you are likely fine applying with 6 days of buffer.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
So this is my next question, I have as at last count 361 exits/entries - all to the US. I work in the US but come home to Canada everyday (or at least every other day) How do I increase my Physical presence days? I was hoping to get extra cushion days before applying. Does that mean I should just go ahead and apply since waiting will not give me those extra days?
FYI and FWIW - I kept detailed account of entries and exits for the most part (but I cant say it was 100%) and I recently renewed PR card with no issues
The real question is, indeed, "should [ I ] just go ahead and apply since waiting will not give me those extra days?"

There is NO easy answer. This is a very personal question. There are many things to consider. Not the least of which is the extent to which (1) you can be certain of the presence calculation, and (2) you can prove actual presence. Personal priorities loom large. Near future and long-term future plans and probabilities should be considered.

As I previously posted:
CAUTION: the online calculator WORKS as long as you enter the dates accurately. My sense is that your scenario likely is one in which it really will be a good idea to have well more than just a few days margin over the minimum. So it is likely important to approach this cautiously and NOT rush applying.
That caution was as applicable for the first explanation I offered, that you will be losing days in the calculation which off set future days in Canada due to days falling outside the five year eligibility period. Which appears to be your situation. At least until June.

The fact that your employment is in the U.S. and that you will apparently depend on counting many days you were also in the U.S. (yes, they count if any part of the day was in Canada, BUT that is assuming IRCC agrees the evidence shows those days were in fact at least partially spent in Canada), tends to elevate the risk of RQ related questions, requests, and potentially full-blown presence-case processing (perhaps even a referral to a Citizenship Judge).

Obviously the fact of being employed in the U.S. is the more salient reason why IRCC might approach your accounting of days present in Canada more skeptically. It does not disqualify you. But it does invite questions and some skepticism. It is likely to trigger RQ-related requests and challenges.

I have oft stated my disdain for "it is likely to be fine" assurances, since at best such assurances are uninformative and generally misleading, failing to address what makes the difference, failing to account for the consequences otherwise, and utterly failing to recognize the extent to which many will NOT be fine but will rather suffer negative consequences. How things go is NOT a game of chance.

But if your situation means the strength of your case will not improve much by waiting, that is what it is. In which case it is largely a matter of assessing if your case is strong enough to invest the cost and effort to apply. With the history you report, seems like the odds are high IRCC is going to scrutinize your travel history rather closely if not outright skeptically. If you are confident you can meet the challenge (to document meeting the presence requirement), as long as you are truthful there is nothing other than your time and the fees to lose. And it may take a little or considerably longer than it does for most applicants.
 
D

Deleted member 103187

Guest
The real question is, indeed, "should [ I ] just go ahead and apply since waiting will not give me those extra days?"

There is NO easy answer. This is a very personal question. There are many things to consider. Not the least of which is the extent to which (1) you can be certain of the presence calculation, and (2) you can prove actual presence. Personal priorities loom large. Near future and long-term future plans and probabilities should be considered.

As I previously posted:


That caution was as applicable for the first explanation I offered, that you will be losing days in the calculation which off set future days in Canada due to days falling outside the five year eligibility period. Which appears to be your situation. At least until June.

The fact that your employment is in the U.S. and that you will apparently depend on counting many days you were also in the U.S. (yes, they count if any part of the day was in Canada, BUT that is assuming IRCC agrees the evidence shows those days were in fact at least partially spent in Canada), tends to elevate the risk of RQ related questions, requests, and potentially full-blown presence-case processing (perhaps even a referral to a Citizenship Judge).

Obviously the fact of being employed in the U.S. is the more salient reason why IRCC might approach your accounting of days present in Canada more skeptically. It does not disqualify you. But it does invite questions and some skepticism. It is likely to trigger RQ-related requests and challenges.

I have oft stated my disdain for "it is likely to be fine" assurances, since at best such assurances are uninformative and generally misleading, failing to address what makes the difference, failing to account for the consequences otherwise, and utterly failing to recognize the extent to which many will NOT be fine but will rather suffer negative consequences. How things go is NOT a game of chance.

But if your situation means the strength of your case will not improve much by waiting, that is what it is. In which case it is largely a matter of assessing if your case is strong enough to invest the cost and effort to apply. With the history you report, seems like the odds are high IRCC is going to scrutinize your travel history rather closely if not outright skeptically. If you are confident you can meet the challenge (to document meeting the presence requirement), as long as you are truthful there is nothing other than your time and the fees to lose. And it may take a little or considerably longer than it does for most applicants.
You are indeed right. The real question is “should [ I ] just go ahead and apply since waiting will not give me those extra days?"
Also Like you rightly stated, this is a very personal question. Since waiting (as long as the next 6months) will not improve my physical presence days and consiI will go ahead and apply. My job always takes me out of Canada and chances are if I wait much longer I might end up loosing eligibility.
In terms of my employment being in the US, I also wanted to state that I have approval from the CANADIAN Government to seek employment/training in the US since a similar training is not available in Canada. The letter also states that I will be coming back to Canada at the end of the said training. I’m hoping I don’t end up with an RQ, but even if I do based on my US employment/travel I think I have a decent case. Furthermore, apart from employment. All my ties are in Canada.