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Question 9c answered wrong on citizenship application!

itslawson12

Full Member
Feb 1, 2018
47
15
Hi All.

I do have a little bit of a challenge on my already submitted citizenship application. As you may know, the question 9c on the application is poorly worded hence many people may have been forced to wrongly answer the question, myself included.

My answer to the question asking if i had lived outside of Canada durin my eligibility period was NO which was
inaccurate as i had in fact lived outside of Canada during my eligibility period (prior to landing. I declared that in the physical precense calculator). I was forced to make this choice as I would have had to fill the “Residence Outside Canada” form but the form doesn’t apply to me because I was never a crown servant.

My application was received on the 10th of January with no AOR email as of yet.

My question now is, will my application be returned? Should I sent another application with a cover letter explaining what happened? Or should I do that using the web form.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated as I have no idea what route to take. Thanks all for your time.
 

btbt

Hero Member
Feb 26, 2018
541
210
Hi All.

I do have a little bit of a challenge on my already submitted citizenship application. As you may know, the question 9c on the application is poorly worded hence many people may have been forced to wrongly answer the question, myself included.

My answer to the question asking if i had lived outside of Canada durin my eligibility period was NO which was
inaccurate as i had in fact lived outside of Canada during my eligibility period (prior to landing. I declared that in the physical precense calculator). I was forced to make this choice as I would have had to fill the “Residence Outside Canada” form but the form doesn’t apply to me because I was never a crown servant.

My application was received on the 10th of January with no AOR email as of yet.

My question now is, will my application be returned? Should I sent another application with a cover letter explaining what happened? Or should I do that using the web form.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated as I have no idea what route to take. Thanks all for your time.
I don't know how they will process the initial application. If they notice before AOR they may return it as incorrect/incomplete.
If it's not noticed during that initial scan, then it's unclear what would happen next. The person reviewing your file may notice the discrepancy and ignore it, or may seek clarification. The confusing form makes it, I expect, unlikely that they're going to make much of an issue of the whole thing.

(For others that are looking at what to do when dealing with that question: the recommended approach, when filling out the form, is to answer yes, and to include a letter explaining that the time spent outside of Canada was not as a crown servant (or the spouse of a crown servant). And adding the relevant form, signed and dated, with the two entries marked as "N/A" for completeness.)

I think I would send a letter, asking for it to be added to your file, explaining that you incorrectly marked "no", as that you did spend time abroad, though not as a crown servant (or the spouse of a crown servant). Or, if you can use the web form, you could send that information in that way. Either approach will make it clear you've not intentionally misled them or omitted anything from your application.

(As I said: it's unlikely they'd consider this an actual issue, but playing it safe seems better)
 
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rasmy

Hero Member
Nov 17, 2016
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Hi All.

I do have a little bit of a challenge on my already submitted citizenship application. As you may know, the question 9c on the application is poorly worded hence many people may have been forced to wrongly answer the question, myself included.

My answer to the question asking if i had lived outside of Canada durin my eligibility period was NO which was
inaccurate as i had in fact lived outside of Canada during my eligibility period (prior to landing. I declared that in the physical precense calculator). I was forced to make this choice as I would have had to fill the “Residence Outside Canada” form but the form doesn’t apply to me because I was never a crown servant.

My application was received on the 10th of January with no AOR email as of yet.

My question now is, will my application be returned? Should I sent another application with a cover letter explaining what happened? Or should I do that using the web form.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated as I have no idea what route to take. Thanks all for your time.
There is nothing you can do at the moment since your application is not in the system. The officer may notice the issue and may send back your application once opened. If you get your AOR, you may send an explanation letter using the webform.
 
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itslawson12

Full Member
Feb 1, 2018
47
15
I don't know how they will process the initial application. If they notice before AOR they may return it as incorrect/incomplete.
If it's not noticed during that initial scan, then it's unclear what would happen next. The person reviewing your file may notice the discrepancy and ignore it, or may seek clarification. The confusing form makes it, I expect, unlikely that they're going to make much of an issue of the whole thing.

(For others that are looking at what to do when dealing with that question: the recommended approach, when filling out the form, is to answer yes, and to include a letter explaining that the time spent outside of Canada was not as a crown servant (or the spouse of a crown servant). And adding the relevant form, signed and dated, with the two entries marked as "N/A" for completeness.)

I think I would send a letter, asking for it to be added to your file, explaining that you incorrectly marked "no", as that you did spend time abroad, though not as a crown servant (or the spouse of a crown servant). Or, if you can use the web form, you could send that information in that way. Either approach will make it clear you've not intentionally misled them or omitted anything from your application.

(As I said: it's unlikely they'd consider this an actual issue, but playing it safe seems better)

I think I’m just going to send a letter as you’ve suggested and ask for it to be added to my file. I really appreciate your prompt and insightful suggestions. Thank you so much for your time!
 

itslawson12

Full Member
Feb 1, 2018
47
15
There is nothing you can do at the moment since your application is not in the system. The officer may notice the issue and may send back your application once opened. If you get your AOR, you may send an explanation letter using the webform.

Thank you very much for your response. I think I’ll wait until I get an AOR (hopefully) and then send a letter or issue an explanation using the webform. Once again thank you!
 

oomuchi

Hero Member
Apr 21, 2015
409
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Category........
Visa Office......
Sydney/Ottawa
NOC Code......
2147
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-10-2014
Doc's Request.
RPRF's Request :30-11-2015
Nomination.....
T4/NoA 2015 :Upfront end of July
AOR Received.
16-02-2015
IELTS Request
Submitted with application
File Transfer...
March 2015 to Ottawa
Med's Request
27-11-2015
Med's Done....
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Interview........
na
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LANDED..........
09-01-2016
Thank you very much for your response. I think I’ll wait until I get an AOR (hopefully) and then send a letter or issue an explanation using the webform. Once again thank you!
I did the same thing.
I selected "no" even though I spent 2 initial months of the eligibility period in my country.
But I have 990 calendar days before the PR period. So I have more than 130 days credit (extra from 365 needed).
And, I have also sent a letter explaining that I selected "NO" because I was not a Crown service even though I spent 2 months (which should not be counted) outside Canada.

Well... I just received the AOR - April 13rd and the application was delivered March 22nd.
 
Last edited:

Abu Hassaan

Champion Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,589
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Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Hi All.

I do have a little bit of a challenge on my already submitted citizenship application. As you may know, the question 9c on the application is poorly worded hence many people may have been forced to wrongly answer the question, myself included.

My answer to the question asking if i had lived outside of Canada durin my eligibility period was NO which was
inaccurate as i had in fact lived outside of Canada during my eligibility period (prior to landing. I declared that in the physical precense calculator). I was forced to make this choice as I would have had to fill the “Residence Outside Canada” form but the form doesn’t apply to me because I was never a crown servant.

My application was received on the 10th of January with no AOR email as of yet.

My question now is, will my application be returned? Should I sent another application with a cover letter explaining what happened? Or should I do that using the web form.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated as I have no idea what route to take. Thanks all for your time.
I dont think so you have any issue here. The question is being asked from Crown servants and spouses of Crown servants. I had also answered NO although I have lived around 2 years outside Canada during my eligibility period. I also attached an explanation letter just to clarify but I don't think so it is critical. By answering NO, applicant is not getting any advantage rather he/she may lose some days to be counted towards physical presence.

I believe, you will get an AOR sooner or later, then you can submit an explanation letter through CSE/Webform for your satisfaction.
 

oomuchi

Hero Member
Apr 21, 2015
409
65
Category........
Visa Office......
Sydney/Ottawa
NOC Code......
2147
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-10-2014
Doc's Request.
RPRF's Request :30-11-2015
Nomination.....
T4/NoA 2015 :Upfront end of July
AOR Received.
16-02-2015
IELTS Request
Submitted with application
File Transfer...
March 2015 to Ottawa
Med's Request
27-11-2015
Med's Done....
04-12-2015
Interview........
na
Passport Req..
14-12-2015
VISA ISSUED...
18-12-2015
LANDED..........
09-01-2016

Aryan2015

Star Member
Feb 28, 2015
75
18
Hi
Itslawson12,

I also did the same mistake and tick marked NO as I was outside Canada prior PR status and I landed direct as PR and I was not a crown servant or not having any status in Canada.

My physical presence calculator counts 1152 days and eligible to apply.

Since now not a single exit from Canada after landing as PR.

So my question is did you submitted an explanation letter after, if yes how?

Did you got AOR before any explanation wit CIC ?

I sent my application just a week ago.

Thanks

Will appreciate your prompt response


I don't know how they will process the initial application. If they notice before AOR they may return it as incorrect/incomplete.
If it's not noticed during that initial scan, then it's unclear what would happen next. The person reviewing your file may notice the discrepancy and ignore it, or may seek clarification. The confusing form makes it, I expect, unlikely that they're going to make much of an issue of the whole thing.

(For others that are looking at what to do when dealing with that question: the recommended approach, when filling out the form, is to answer yes, and to include a letter explaining that the time spent outside of Canada was not as a crown servant (or the spouse of a crown servant). And adding the relevant form, signed and dated, with the two entries marked as "N/A" for completeness.)

I think I would send a letter, asking for it to be added to your file, explaining that you incorrectly marked "no", as that you did spend time abroad, though not as a crown servant (or the spouse of a crown servant). Or, if you can use the web form, you could send that information in that way. Either approach will make it clear you've not intentionally misled them or omitted anything from your application.

(As I said: it's unlikely they'd consider this an actual issue, but playing it safe seems better)
 

itslawson12

Full Member
Feb 1, 2018
47
15
Hi
Itslawson12,

I also did the same mistake and tick marked NO as I was outside Canada prior PR status and I landed direct as PR and I was not a crown servant or not having any status in Canada.

My physical presence calculator counts 1152 days and eligible to apply.

Since now not a single exit from Canada after landing as PR.

So my question is did you submitted an explanation letter after, if yes how?

Did you got AOR before any explanation wit CIC ?

I sent my application just a week ago.

Thanks

Will appreciate your prompt response
Hi Aryan2015,

I’m sorry to hear about your situation. Question 9c on the citizenship application form is an error on IRCC’s part as it’s been poorly worded which continues to throw many people into a state of dilemma, forcing them into wrongly answering the question (in your particular case, you had answered NO instead of YES).

This is such a minor and very common issue that you don’t have to worry or stress yourself about. I’m almost certain that you will receive AOR without sending any explanation letter. In my case, I received AOR and my application is now in process. So I suggest you relax and expect to receive an AOR. Good luck!
 
Last edited:
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,432
3,176
I also did the same mistake and tick marked NO as I was outside Canada prior PR status and I landed direct as PR and I was not a crown servant or not having any status in Canada.
Not a problem.

I concur with the essential observation in the response by @itslawson12 . . .
. . . you don’t have to worry or stress yourself about.

When an applicant actually has lived outside Canada during the eligibility period, there are two ways to respond to this item (item 9.c. in the 10-2017 version of the application) which, so far, appear to work. Both for purposes of the COMPLETENESS check AND for purposes of IRCC's assessment of the citizenship applicant and application overall.

-- Check "yes" and submit the CIT 0177 form with "Not Applicable" (or equivalent) sufficiently entered in the form to make it clear the applicant does not claim Crown Servant related credit (unless of course the applicant does claim some Crown Servant credit).

-- Check "no."

All reports so far indicate EITHER approach will pass the COMPLETENESS screening. Thus, the applicant will see AOR and not have the application returned to him or her (unless, obviously, there is some other reason for failing to pass the COMPLETENESS screening).

From what I have seen, there are NO reports about checking "no," despite having lived outside Canada during the eligibility period, suggesting IRCC has any problem with this later in the process. I do not read every topic here these days, so if others have seen any such reports, please make this more widely known in the forum. My strong sense is this alone is NOT a problem, not at all.

Obviously, when checking "yes" is a truthful answer, and the CIT 0177 form is submitted with the application (albeit populated throughout with "Not Applicable"), there is no basis at all for IRCC to have a problem. And, here too there is NO report indicating otherwise.

WHEN 9.c IS A PROBLEM: Checking "yes" and NOT including CIT 0177 means the application is NOT complete, a necessary form is NOT included. This results in the application being returned. While checking "yes" and submitting a supplemental explanation as to why CIT 0177 SHOULD work to pass the completeness screening, there are some reports the application has been returned in such cases.

Some forum participants suggest checking "yes" and including a clearly marked "Not Applicable" CIT 0177 AND including a supplemental explanation. In general, better to NOT include something that does NOT need to be included. Total stranger bureaucrats may be very, very smart individuals (and of course some may be not-so-smart at all), but the tasks they are engaged in may be largely mechanical and focused on checklist criteria, and supplemental explanations do not readily fit into the way they process the task. I lean toward minimizing complications or potential diversions. Bureaucrats like all the colouring to be inside the lines. Or, to mix metaphors badly, wrinkles jam the paper feed.

Sometimes supplemental information or explanations are necessary. Or, at least a good idea. If and when to include a supplemental explanation is a very personal decision to be based on the specific situation. I lean toward avoiding this unless it appears necessary or there is something which is likely to be misconstrued otherwise.

There may be some who suggest checking "no" and including a supplemental explanation. This should guarantee the response cannot be interpreted as misleading let alone misrepresentation, but there is virtually no chance of this anyway . . . unless the applicant has otherwise concealed or failed to disclose information about living outside Canada in other parts of the application, like address and work history, or the presence calculation.

Leading to further observations:


I also did the same mistake and tick marked NO as I was outside Canada prior PR status and I landed direct as PR and I was not a crown servant or not having any status in Canada.

My physical presence calculator counts 1152 days and eligible to apply.

Since now not a single exit from Canada after landing as PR.

So my question is did you submitted an explanation letter after, if yes how?

Did you got AOR before any explanation wit CIC ?
Again, I concur with the essential observation in the response by @itslawson12 . . .no reason to worry or stress yourself about this.

At least so long as you completed items 10 and 11 for the full five years eligibility period, providing work and address history for the full five year eligibility period. (Even then, for PRs who came to Canada less than five years prior to applying and never left, it is not certain how the failure to provide the pre-landing information will affect processing. But obviously, providing this information looms far, far larger than a "NO" check in response to item 9.c. when in fact the PR had lived outside Canada during the eligibility period of five years.)

A number of forum participants have reported feedback from IRCC suggesting that IRCC actually expects applicants to check "no" for this item, if they have no Crown Servant related credit to claim, despite having lived outside Canada during the eligibility period.

As @itslawson12 also observes, this particular item is something of an error or glitch or at least poor wording on IRCC's part. As you have observed, the truthful response would be "yes." And a "yes" response triggers the instruction to submit the Crown Servant credit CIT 0177 form. Which for someone like you, when properly completed, would simply be full of "N/A" or "NOT APPLICABLE" or such.

I lean toward the more purist, literal following-instructions approach: answer the questions as honestly and accurately as possible, and then follow the instructions. Which for the applicant who came to came to live less than five years prior to applying, item 9.c. would mean answering "yes" and then submitting the CIT 0177 form filled out with enough "NOT APPLICABLE" to sufficiently make it clear the applicant is not seeking any Crown Servant related credit.


COMPLETENESS SCREENING; AOR; and THE REST OF THE PROCESS:

Applications are returned when they fail to pass the COMPLETENESS screening. AOR only means the COMPLETENESS screening has been passed AND if true the information in the application appears to show the applicant is eligible for a grant of citizenship (for example, if the presence calculation shows less than 1095 days credit for presence, the application will be returned). In particular, AOR does NOT mean IRCC has determined the applicant is eligible for citizenship. AOR does NOT mean IRCC has assessed the accuracy of any information or answer in the application.

Reminder: Errors do NOT result in the return of an application. Applications are returned if they fail to pass a COMPLETENESS screening, and thus are returned when certain parts of the form have not been answered, the fees are not paid, the applicant fails to submit proper photos, the presence calculation is missing required information, required documents are not included, a required signature is missing, or such.

It appears that sometimes a GAP in the information provided can result in the application being returned. BUT reporting has made it obvious that NOT all gaps in information fail the COMPLETENESS screening.

Inconsistencies in the information provided will NOT, not ordinarily anyway, result in the application being returned.

A common example of the latter is seen in reports from applicants who checked "no" in response to item 10.b. (10-2017 version of application), declaring that no they had not been present in another country for 183 or more days during the FOUR years preceding the application, even though in fact they had and this is readily apparent in the address history, work history, or presence calculation travel history. Checking "no" gets the application past the COMPLETENESS screening even when it is blatantly, obviously NOT true. BUT of course these applicants are, later in the process, at a high risk for non-routine processing, at the least due to a later request to obtain and submit a proper police clearance certificate from the respective country.

In any event, errors in address history, work history, presence calculation declarations, or many other items in the application, ARE RARELY IDENTIFIED during the COMPLETENESS screening, and thus will RARELY result in an application being returned. An application full of all sorts of errors can pass a COMPLETENESS screening and receive AOR. Obviously that does NOT mean that applicant will have smooth sailing after that, or will not be required to submit further information or documents, or even have a successful application.
 

Aryan2015

Star Member
Feb 28, 2015
75
18
Thank you very much

Hi Aryan2015,

I’m sorry to hear about your situation. Question 9c on the citizenship application form is an error on IRCC’s part as it’s been poorly worded which continues to throw many people into a state of dilemma, forcing them into wrongly answering the question (in your particular case, you had answered NO instead of YES).

This is such a minor and very common issue that you don’t have to worry or stress yourself about. I’m almost certain that you will receive AOR without sending any explanation letter. In my case, I received AOR and my application is now in process. So I suggest you relax and expect to receive an AOR. Good luck!