Was refused for PR need clarification for the provided reason.

[Alexno]

Hi! I'm so sorry to hear that! Could you please tell me how long it took them to refuse your app?

AOR was Feb 28, got refused this morning, so quite a while.

 

[wan11knu]

I've shown less, and provided my spouse's and my pay stubs and bank transcript for last 6 months.

Thats surprising that they took so long to refuse u. Did u order gcms notes anytime? Perhaps the notes would have helped u.

 

[Alexno]

More questions

When I'll fill out my EE profile again in 4 months, how will it know to provide an ITA in the CEC stream instead of the FSW? or will I get both and chose?

Also what should I state in available funds in EE (assuming I won't have to show any for CEC)?

Lastly, are you positive that I will not have to produce a LMIA for CEC at all? B/c some threads here claim otherwise....

 

[Vitesze]

More questions

When I'll fill out my EE profile again in 4 months, how will it know to provide an ITA in the CEC stream instead of the FSW? or will I get both and chose?

Also what should I state in available funds in EE (assuming I won't have to show any for CEC)?

Lastly, are you positive that I will not have to produce a LMIA for CEC at all? B/c some threads here claim otherwise....

If you're eligible for both programs, it will automatically select CEC for your application.

If you don't have to show any funds, put down "0", and explain it in the LOE afterwards. If you put anything else, you may still be expected to show Proof of this because you declared having that amount (unsure about this - but I heard rumours. just put 0 to be safe)

To be eligible for the CEC program, you don't need an LMIA. You simply need to complete 1 year of work experience in a NOC 0, A or B position while being authorized to work in Canada - so this can be on any type of work permit. However, you can only claim additional CRS pts. for a job offer if:

(1) you have an LMIA, or
(2) are on a closed-work permit, have been working for the same employer for at least 1 year and the job offer is for the same NOC-code you have the 1 year experience in.
​

This is what the initial confusion was about. If you apply under the FSW program, you always need to show Proof of Funds unless you have a valid job offer (which you did not - because you needed a closed work permit or an LMIA).

 

[jes_ON]

This part I'm finding a bit hard to follow, I am currently on a PGWP that's valid until 2020 and I work full-time for a non-limited full-time position here in Canada since Oct 17 (got hired with a co-op WP that was due to expire on Jul 30th after finishing my MBA). However, the PGWP got approved on March 23 and my PR AOR was Feb 2018 so the new PGWP was not attached to the PR app.
/QUOTE]

Another little wrinkle that I don't think anyone has yet commented on. You cannot count work experience as a student in Canada, and co-op work experience is by definition, student work experience.

When did you APPLY for your PGWP? That is the date on which you can begin counting your work experience.

 

[Alexno]

If you're eligible for both programs, it will automatically select CEC for your application.

If you don't have to show any funds, put down "0", and explain it in the LOE afterwards. If you put anything else, you may still be expected to show Proof of this because you declared having that amount (unsure about this - but I heard rumours. just put 0 to be safe)

To be eligible for the CEC program, you don't need an LMIA. You simply need to complete 1 year of work experience in a NOC 0, A or B position while being authorized to work in Canada - so this can be on any type of work permit. However, you can only claim additional CRS pts. for a job offer if:

(1) you have an LMIA, or
(2) are on a closed-work permit, have been working for the same employer for at least 1 year and the job offer is for the same NOC-code you have the 1 year experience in.
​

This is what the initial confusion was about. If you apply under the FSW program, you always need to show Proof of Funds unless you have a valid job offer (which you did not - because you needed a closed work permit or an LMIA).

Yes, you've broken it down quite clearly, thank you. Now it all makes sense but I can see how I could've made this mistake... Hopefully by sharing my case I can help others avoid this pitfall.

Regardless, I think I'll ask my employer for an LMIA as they consider me a valued employee and they want to keep me working for them. Any idea how long the LMIA process takes?

Another little wrinkle that I don't think anyone has yet commented on. You cannot count work experience as a student in Canada, and co-op work experience is by definition, student work experience.

When did you APPLY for your PGWP? That is the date on which you can begin counting your work experience.

Hmm that's a very good point! I have applied for the PGWP on February 19, 2018. Can anyone please confirm this claim? I've started working on Oct 30 in the position I still hold (in my NOC code) right from the get-go as a full-time employee and with no termination date however the work was a part of my graduation requirement and for the first couple of months I was employed on the co-op basis of my student status.

 

[jes_ON]

Yes, you've broken it down quite clearly, thank you. Now it all makes sense but I can see how I could've made this mistake... Hopefully by sharing my case I can help others avoid this pitfall.

Regardless, I think I'll ask my employer for an LMIA as they consider me a valued employee and they want to keep me working for them. Any idea how long the LMIA process takes?

Lots of people misunderstand the meaning of "valid job offer" despite all the info that IRCC provides...

The length of time it takes to get an LMIA varies by region, anywhere from 2-4 months. There is an option where your employer can apply for an LMIA "to support the PR application only" (not for a work permit), and does not have to pay the $1,000 application fee - since your PGWP still has a lot of time left on it, this would be a good option for you.

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/foreign-workers/permanent/apply.html

 

[jes_ON]

Hmm that's a very good point! I have applied for the PGWP on February 19, 2018. Can anyone please confirm this claim? I've started working on Oct 30 in the position I still hold (in my NOC code) right from the get-go as a full-time employee and with no termination date however the work was a part of my graduation requirement and for the first couple of months I was employed on the co-op basis of my student status.

The information is indirect and scattered. Work that is "authorized" (no specific type of permit) counts, as long as you are not a student.

1, Student/co-op work experience does not count:

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/economic-classes/experience/qualifying-work-experience.html

"Any period of employment when the applicant was engaged in full-time study will not be included in calculating the period of qualifying work experience (e.g., work experience gained through co-op work permits, off-campus work permits while a full-time student and on-campus work permits). [R87.1(3)(a)]. Officers should verify the work permit information in GCMS."

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=394&top=29

"Co-op terms and apprenticeships completed before graduating do not count as skilled work experience. They are considered part of an educational program.

The work experience you can use to apply for the Canadian Experience Class must not have been gained while studying full time on a student permit (for example, experience gained while on a co-op work term)."

2. When you are authorized to work:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/study-canada/work/after-graduation/eligibility.html

"Waiting for a decision
You can work full-time until a decision is made on your [PGWP] work permit application if you:

• completed your study program
• applied for a work permit before your study permit expired and
• were eligible to work off-campus without a work permit while studying and did not work more hours than you were allowed to while working off-campus.

If these don’t apply to you, you must wait until the permit arrives to begin your new job. It is illegal to work in Canada without a permit."

 

[Alexno]

Jes, thanks! That is INVALUABLE information!

That means that I will be able to apply for my IEC from Feb 19 Only. (I have applied for the PGWP on February 19 2018)
And the fact that the LMIA will be without fees is actually tilting the scales in favour of the FSW re-application now, over the CEC in 7 months.

In your opinion, which is the safer approach?

FSW again with LMIA & Proof of Funds or CEC in 7 months? My PGWP is valid until 06/20

 

[Vitesze]

Whats your NOC code? An LMIA usually is pretty tough to obtain, and if you are a fresh graduate with little work experience (I assume you are because you are on a PGWP) it's unlikely you are going to receive that LMIA, unless you are in a very high-demand field.

Essentially, for an LMIA there needs to be proof that no Canadian can be found that can do the work. It's not just a matter of your employer saying "We really want to keep this person"

 

[Alexno]

Whats your NOC code? An LMIA usually is pretty tough to obtain, and if you are a fresh graduate with little work experience (I assume you are because you are on a PGWP) it's unlikely you are going to receive that LMIA, unless you are in a very high-demand field.

My NOC code is 4021 - College & Other vocational instructors. It's A is NOC and I have (with Canadian work exp.) almost 12 years of experience in this NOC.

My post grad was an MBA so it's more supplementary to my NOC and not directly tied to it.
My BA was tied to 4021. My entire career I've been working in 4021 roles.

 

[Vitesze]

My LMIA is 4021 - College & Other vocational instructors. It's A is NOC and I have (with Canadian work exp.) almost 12 years of experience in this NOC.

I don't know much about the job market situation for this particular NOC-code - but if you were to terminate your employment tomorrow, would your employer be experiencing a lot of issues finding a replacement? Also, I've read several stories that for an LMIA to have a realistic chance of being approved, you should at least be earning the median salary for the NOC-code, but preferably above-average.

 

[Alexno]

I don't know much about the job market situation for this particular NOC-code - but if you were to terminate your employment tomorrow, would your employer be experiencing a lot of issues finding a replacement? Also, I've read several stories that for an LMIA to have a realistic chance of being approved, you should at least be earning the median salary for the NOC-code, but preferably above-average.

Yes, I'm the head of the training dept. in an IT firm and was hired in spite of being a temp resident due to my career and qualifications. I make almost 4 times the minimum wage in BC.

 

[Vitesze]

Yes, I'm the head of the training dept. in an IT firm and was hired in spite of being a temp resident due to my career and qualifications. I make almost 4 times the minimum wage in BC.

Then you probably stand a good chance obtaining an LMIA. You should go for it

 

[Alexno]

One more question, having glanced at the LMIA application form, it seems like many questions are geared towards a limited employment period with an end date. Seeing as I don't have an end date, should I just put my PGWP expiration date as the employment end date?