I have citizenship test/interview on Monday and I just found out my two old passports are missing. I have only the current and valid passport. Has anyone been in this boat? what should i do in this case?
lost old passports
- Thread starter newbiealpha
- Start date
Make a concerted effort to find them.
If you cannot find them, the best you can do is go to the interview and explain all the circumstances, including how it is that you no longer have them (particularly given how obviously important it was to safeguard them).
How much of a problem this will be can depend on many factors, including just how strong your case is on its face.
Among some key factors:
-- how much of your declared presence in Canada is prior to the date you were issued your current passport (less is better, more worse)
-- how much of your declared presence in Canada could be within the scope of a passport not presented (less is better, more is worse)
-- the credibility of your explanation for how it is you do not have the passports
-- strength of work and address history information
-- total presence declaration, including
-- -- how much of a margin you applied with
-- -- how consistent the travel history appears to be with other information and circumstances
It is impossible to predict how this will go for you in particular. The variables are many and interrelated. Your explanations could suffice.
Passport stamps are not nearly so important as they were in the past. But producing the passports and allowing IRCC to examine the pages, to look at stamps and visas and such, is still an important part of the interview and assessment of the applicant.
There is, a substantial risk that IRCC will at the least examine and probe your case more extensively because of this, and especially so if the period of time the lost-passports cover is a big part of the time you declare presence in Canada. At the least, a closer or more formal examination of your CBSA travel history seems to be likely, which could delay when you would be scheduled for the oath some. At the other end of the spectrum, this could trigger a full blown RQ or PPQ and result in a significant delay. Worst case scenario would involve suspicions about your explanation for not producing the passports which could lead to a contested case, perhaps a CJ hearing. (See some of the factors I listed above as likely to influence how this goes.)
So, again, time to make a concerted effort to find those passports.
Presenting additional evidence of presence, or to document travel dates, at the interview:
Some forum participants might recommend gathering and taking and presenting documentation to show where you lived, where you worked, and to document travel dates (airline tickets or itineraries perhaps). My sense is that if there is any chance at all of finding the passports, your time would be better spent finding the passports. But, if you have such documents readily at hand, you could gather and take them, and offer them if an opportunity arises to do so . . . no point in pushing them on the interviewer. Indeed, better to politely offer and push it no more than that. If the documents will help, the interviewer will readily accept and consider them. If the interviewer is not receptive to accepting them or looking at them, they will NOT help. (They may be helpful later, if formally requested, but unless the interview wants to see them, they will not help at the time of the interview.)
It is likely the interviewer is not interested in seeing this documentation . . . if IRCC wants to see this documentation, they will ask for it formally, as part of RQ, RQ-lite, or PPQ. The interview is NOT a hearing, it is NOT an opportunity for the applicant to present his or her case. The purpose of the interview is to verify documents and the applicant's identity, and to ask some questions which will help IRCC verify the information provided. So, if additional evidence or proof is relevant, that is typically obtained through a formal request.
But, who can say for sure that having it in hand will not help? I cannot say that. It might. I doubt it. But it might.
i got stamps on my passport only the very first time i landed in canada. After that i always entered canada using automated check in and my passport has no Canada entry/exit stamps as they don't stamp on exit anyways. Current passport which I have is only 1 year old. Out of 4 years (I applied before new regulations kicked in). I was in University for one year and other three years i was working. I moved few times from Ontario to Alberta and then back to Ontario so proof of my work probably is only my tax returns. Still looking for passports in my home.
Wait..are *all* old passports required? I've all my passports from when I was a baby...does IRCC need to see all of them? If so, I need to somehow find them in time.
Or do they only need to see the passports I used to enter Canada, even if expired?
Or do they only need to see the passports I used to enter Canada, even if expired?
They request disclosure and copies of bio-pages from all passports or travel documents which could possibly have been used during the eligibility period. Even if not actually used. If it is possible they could have been used during the five years prior to making the citizenship application they need to be declared in response to Item 14 (current (10-2017) version of application form) and bio-pages submitted. The original passports and travel documents must then be presented for examination at the interview.
So no, it is not every old passport. Passports cancelled before the beginning of the five year (or six for older applications, or since becoming a PR if less than six years previous) eligibility period do not need to be presented. Any passport not cancelled before the beginning of the eligibility period does need to be disclosed and presented.
The OP here applied under the 4/6 rules and thus should present any passport or travel document which could have been used during the six years prior to the date of the application (or, since landing and becoming a PR if that was less than six years previous).
BUT beyond what IRCC requests from the applicant (coverage five years for current applicants; six years for those who applied under the 4/6 rule), it is really important to have and present all passports and travel documents which could have been used for the whole time period the applicant declares he or she was physically present in Canada.
These days the passports are not so much about examining stamps confirming travel history (these days lots of border crossing events do not result in a stamp), but more about examining the pages of passports to see if there is any information which conflicts with the applicant's information . . . ranging from whether there are any undisclosed visas or other immigration status in other countries, to stamps or other information indicating travel other than that as declared.
OP here will have a better chance of avoiding problematic non-routine processing if the missing passports can be found and presented.
Hello guys,
Happy new year!
I have also lost my expired passport, but its expiration date was before my first arrival in Canada.
Actually, I entered Canada in June 2014 and became PR the same date, obviously I used my new passport (still valid) to get enter, my expired passport expiration date was for September 2013. Since my first arrival & PR date, I did not leave Canada.
To be more specefic,
My eligibility period is : from 10-2012 to 10-2017.
My previous (expired) passport validity: from 09-2008 to 09-2013.
First arrival & PR: June 2014.
I also sent a photocopy of its biographical page (together with photocopy of my current passport), because I usually keep an electronic copy of every document, then explained clearly in my citizenship application that I have lost my expired passport.
I really have no idea if this could be an issue in test/interview day, actually the expired passport has no business to do with my post-pr life time.
Thank you in advance for any suggestion.
Happy new year!
I have also lost my expired passport, but its expiration date was before my first arrival in Canada.
Actually, I entered Canada in June 2014 and became PR the same date, obviously I used my new passport (still valid) to get enter, my expired passport expiration date was for September 2013. Since my first arrival & PR date, I did not leave Canada.
To be more specefic,
My eligibility period is : from 10-2012 to 10-2017.
My previous (expired) passport validity: from 09-2008 to 09-2013.
First arrival & PR: June 2014.
I also sent a photocopy of its biographical page (together with photocopy of my current passport), because I usually keep an electronic copy of every document, then explained clearly in my citizenship application that I have lost my expired passport.
I really have no idea if this could be an issue in test/interview day, actually the expired passport has no business to do with my post-pr life time.
Thank you in advance for any suggestion.
Good news. Congratulations.
High probability this is NOT a problem.
As you appear to discern, your older passport has no relevance to your Canadian status and no relevance to any time period you are claiming as credit toward meeting the citizenship presence requirement. So failing to present it should have little or no material significance. At most, you may be asked about it in the interview, but that should be perfunctory.
IRCC is a bureaucracy and bureaucracies tend to operate mechanically, so of course it would be best to provide the older passport. But as previously noted stamps in passports have less significance today anyway and many people discard or lose old passports.
An Irony: Canada actually destroys the old passport when a Canadian renews their Canadian passport UNLESS the person specifically requests that the passport be returned to them . . . and even when it is returned, the passport office will typically say the old passport is ONLY a souvenir or memento. In other words, the Canadian government considers destruction of the old passport the norm and that it has no official use, but then, in contrast, IRCC has the audacity to expect citizenship applicants to have preserved their old passports from other countries. Pure consistency cannot be expected from even the best governments.
Dear dpenabill,
Thank you so much for your clear and exact explanation and analysis.
You’re right, we can see some paradox in Canadian government bureaucracies, but would be acceptable somehow until it doesn’t make big challenges for people.
Following your irony, does it seem that the government tends to destroy people’s souvenir and memento by default? I’m just kidding…
Thank you again for your response.
Dear dpenabill,
I finally got updated with this line in my ECAS:
4. We sent you correspondence on January 16, 2018. If you have not yet provided the information or the requested documents, please do so as soon as possible. Please wait until you receive the correspondence before sending us additional information, as the correspondence will outline all information that is required.
What do you think? What would it be probably?
Thank you.
This can range from a simple Finger Print request to the PPQ-QAE CIT 0205, or some specific request in between. It could be a request for more specific information related to passports or travel documents prior to the one you submitted.
The most common thing is a Finger Print request, which is inconvenient but ordinarily does not result in much of a delay in processing so long as the applicant promptly provides FPs, of course.
RQ or a PPQ (Residency Questionnaire or Physical Presence Questionnaire) is at the other end of the range. A lot of forum participants are reporting the PPQ-QAE which is purportedly a RANDOMLY issued Quality Assurance Exercise, but it is profoundly intrusive, requesting a lot of documents, a lot of information, and is a major inconvenience. And there is reason to be skeptical of IRCC's claim it is randomly issued.
So hopefully you will get something simple like a FP request.
You will find out fairly soon. Nothing to do but wait and see what it actually is.
Dear @dpenabill,
Today I received the correspondence from CIC.
Hopefully it was a FP request, as you also guessed rightly
I'm going to do it ASAP, by today if I can or by Tomorrow morning at most.
I hope it doesn't cause a big delay in the processing of my application, as I have a clear background. It also was kind of shock for me to receive FP req, which simply means how significant is the possession of ALL passports covering the eligibility period.
In the mean time, it's probable that they found someone with similar name as me that caused a FP req, as my names (both first and last) are VERY common, who knows!
I do not know how IRCC assesses differences in signatures on different documents. It happens, of course. People change the way they sign things. My signature on a passport from more than four decades ago (yeah, I'm an old dude) bears virtually no similarity to my signature on other passports, none at all my current passports (my current signature is a mere scrawl, maybe one recognizable letter). Even though I have not had any name change, as such, in the meantime.
But of course such differences will likely be noticed. And that can influence a processing agent's assessment. While current "investigatory" methods are confidential and rather strictly kept from the public, in the past it was revealed that CIC (this was before transition to IRCC) specifically compared the handwriting in signatures . . . including on identification as well as the PR card (which no longer needs to be submitted with the application but it was required then) and travel documents, and on the residency/presence calculation form as well as the application, looking for any differences in the handwriting.
Differences should not invalidate the application or document, but probably raise questions which IRCC may be able to resolve on its own (some countries require the signature on passports to clearly show the name which can be different from how the individual ordinarily signs things, so the passport signature obviously differs from signatures on other documents) or which will lead IRCC to make further inquiries. Since identity may be among the questions, this might trigger a Finger Print request, or it might lead to a question in the interview when that happens.
Obviously, how the signatures differ can influence the extent to which IRCC has questions. If it appears the documents were signed by different people, that obviously is likely to trigger more probing questions.
The signature on my passport is different than my current signature, but there is also another problem.
Actually, after reviewing the copy of biographical page of my current passport that I sent along with my application, I found a mistake!
Unfortunately I sent them a copy that has no signature on it. (as I usually keep a scanned copy of documents on my computer, I carelessly kept a scan before I sign my passport).
I think it would be a cause that I got FP request. For the moment, is it a good idea to send them a signed scan of passport through web form and describe what happend? or wait until the test/interview day?
I did my FP a day after I received the letter.
I really appreciate your response.
Edit: All my signatures after landing are unique, including sinatures on the Health card, Driver's licence card, COPR, ...
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