PREMANENT RESIDENT VISA & OPEN WORK PERMIT

[geoffreydhalia]

Hello all, I am a Canadian Citizen (born and raised as my parents were as well) . I've been married to an Indian woman for 6 years and we have a daughter together and we've been living in India all this time. My wife and child have not yet been to Canada before but now we are ready to move to Canada. According to CIC web site, we can apply for my wife's Permanent Resident Visa from here and it will take 'up to one year to process.' But due to tight finances this option is limited for us. If I came back to Canada alone and got employment and started the process for PRV it would still be the same time to process. We want our daughter to start grade 1 in September. As it stands, time-wise, she would not get there in time. I was advised by a friend of a friend who works in a department of immigration that we could apply (from India) for an OPEN WORK PERMIT (for my wife) and submit it with (simutaneously) with PERMANENT RESIDENT VISA APPLICATION. Then we could all go together, or at least, she and daughter could come in 12 weeks as stated on CIC, processing time for Work Permit. This advise was contradicted by another immigration worker from another office that helps with these applications. She told me that it CAN'T BE DONE as my wife will not qualify for Open Work Permit. The other adviser says "Submit the application for spousal sponsorship from outside Canada. Submit the application for an open work permit at the same time for her, she is eligible for that as a foreign spouse of a Canadian Citizen." They can't even telephone one another to discuss the matter due to holidays and it's been very confusing and frustrating for us as a family to either confirm or deny each other's claims and advise. As much as I've gone over the info on CIC, I can't find some closure. On the APPLICATION FOR WORK PERMIT MADE OUTSIDE CANADA number #6 on page #3 things become confusing trying to find some clarity to his claims. We want him to be correct so that we would, as a family be apart for up to 12 weeks and not 1 year, which is far too long for a Canadian Citizen's family to be apart while the PRV processes. It's silly that she would have to be INSIDE Canada already to apply for Open Work Permit! We have everything else in order and all the support from family in Canada. Accommodation/Employment letters (but not according to what LMIA is asking on CIC). Our situation isn't really presented with options in CIC, especially under those specifications for LMIA. Who is right? Who is wrong? I can't them to speak to each other to discuss their opposing suggestions. I can't leave my wife and daughter alone in India. There is no support system here. My wife has been a stay-at-home mother since giving birth. We tried for a VISITOR'S VISA she was denied. Okay I understand why. But still. The system is flawed, or at best, totally unfair and made me feel shame for my country's immigration process and their inability to keep my family together. Okay, a couple of months apart would be acceptable, but one year! That is not acceptable. I am a Canadian Citizen, not a Temporary or Permanent Resident - a Citizen. There must be some allowance for that? Anyway, I digress. If anyone can provide some clarity on the two opposing advise, I would be most thankful. Is he right? And if he is, do I omit question #6 on the WP from Outside Canada application form? I certainly do not want to waste time and money on something that will get my family nowhere. But I pray he is right, for my daughter's sake. Thank you.....

 

[scylla]

The rules are black and white - and we are very familiar with them on this forum. None of the information you've been given so far is accurate.

You can only apply for an open work permit if BOTH you and your wife are physically in Canada AND you sponsor her for PR using the inland route (in this case you would include the OWP application with the inland sponsorship application).

If she is outside of Canada, then your only option is to sponsor her for PR using the outland route - in which case there's no OWP. If you do not wish to be separated, you can submit the outland application while you are living with your wife outside of Canada and then come to Canada together once her PR visa is approved. Since you are a Canadian citizen, you are allowed to sponsor a spouse while living outside of Canada. But again, no open work permit.

If you have further questions I would recommend you post them to the Family Sponsorship section of the forum. (Also - please try to write in paragraphs - your post was quite difficult to read as one long string of text.) Lastly, have you started the process to confirm your child's Canadian citizenship and obtain a Canadian passport for her to travel here? If not, start that now. It takes time.

 

[geoffreydhalia]

Thank y

The rules are black and white - and we are very familiar with them on this forum. None of the information you've been given so far is accurate.

You can only apply for an open work permit if BOTH you and your wife are physically in Canada AND you sponsor her for PR using the inland route (in this case you would include the OWP application with the inland sponsorship application).

If she is outside of Canada, then your only option is to sponsor her for PR using the outland route - in which case there's no OWP. If you do not wish to be separated, you can submit the outland application while you are living with your wife outside of Canada and then come to Canada together once her PR visa is approved. Since you are a Canadian citizen, you are allowed to sponsor a spouse while living outside of Canada. But again, no open work permit.

If you have further questions I would recommend you post them to the Family Sponsorship section of the forum. (Also - please try to write in paragraphs - your post was quite difficult to read as one long string of text.) Lastly, have you started the process to confirm your child's Canadian citizenship and obtain a Canadian passport for her to travel here? If not, start that now. It takes time.

 

[geoffreydhalia]

Thank you Scylla, my daughter does have Citizenship of course and passport. It took not time at all... I am very familiar with the process but it is always a good thing to have these apps and forms looked over by second party by someone in the profession, as I did, but getting two conflicting advise... I don't believe the process is black and white as a friend (Canadian Citizen) and his common law managed to get her PVR while both outside, but with no financial proof or employment letters, etc.....?

Thank y

The rules are black and white - and we are very familiar with them on this forum. None of the information you've been given so far is accurate.

You can only apply for an open work permit if BOTH you and your wife are physically in Canada AND you sponsor her for PR using the inland route (in this case you would include the OWP application with the inland sponsorship application).

If she is outside of Canada, then your only option is to sponsor her for PR using the outland route - in which case there's no OWP. If you do not wish to be separated, you can submit the outland application while you are living with your wife outside of Canada and then come to Canada together once her PR visa is approved. Since you are a Canadian citizen, you are allowed to sponsor a spouse while living outside of Canada. But again, no open work permit.

If you have further questions I would recommend you post them to the Family Sponsorship section of the forum. (Also - please try to write in paragraphs - your post was quite difficult to read as one long string of text.) Lastly, have you started the process to confirm your child's Canadian citizenship and obtain a Canadian passport for her to travel here? If not, start that now. It takes time

Thank y

 

[geoffreydhalia]

The rules are black and white - and we are very familiar with them on this forum. None of the information you've been given so far is accurate.

You can only apply for an open work permit if BOTH you and your wife are physically in Canada AND you sponsor her for PR using the inland route (in this case you would include the OWP application with the inland sponsorship application).

If she is outside of Canada, then your only option is to sponsor her for PR using the outland route - in which case there's no OWP. If you do not wish to be separated, you can submit the outland application while you are living with your wife outside of Canada and then come to Canada together once her PR visa is approved. Since you are a Canadian citizen, you are allowed to sponsor a spouse while living outside of Canada. But again, no open work permit.

If you have further questions I would recommend you post them to the Family Sponsorship section of the forum. (Also - please try to write in paragraphs - your post was quite difficult to read as one long string of text.) Lastly, have you started the process to confirm your child's Canadian citizenship and obtain a Canadian passport for her to travel here? If not, start that now. It takes time.

Why does this exist> IMM 1295 APPLICATION FOR WORK PERMIT MADE OUTSIDE CANADA > choose open work permit?

 

[scylla]

Thank you Scylla, my daughter does have Citizenship of course and passport. It took not time at all... I am very familiar with the process but it is always a good thing to have these apps and forms looked over by second party by someone in the profession, as I did, but getting two conflicting advise... I don't believe the process is black and white as a friend (Canadian Citizen) and his common law managed to get her PVR while both outside, but with no financial proof or employment letters, etc.....?

The inland + OWP vs. outland processes are as black and white as I have indicated. The OWP is only granted with the inland process - and both the sponsor and applicant must be physically in Canada to sponsor via the inland route.

I'm not sure how your story about your friend contradicts or conflicts with what I have said. Your friend applied to sponsor his spouse using the outland process while living outside of Canada. As I mentioned in my previous post, he's entitled to sponsor his spouse while living outside of Canada since he's a Canadian citizen. There's nothing unusual or surprising about this story.

 

[scylla]

Why does this exist> IMM 1295 APPLICATION FOR WORK PERMIT MADE OUTSIDE CANADA > choose open work permit?

There are many scenarios that allow someone to apply for a work permit outside of Canada. A few examples:

- If they have a job offer and approved LMIA from an employer in Canada.
- If their spouse is an International Student who is on a study permit in Canada and is engaged in full time studies (this gives the spouse access to an OWP)
- If their spouse is a Foreign Worker who is on a work permit Canada with a NOC A, B or 0 role (this gives the spouse access to an OWP)
- etc.

It's not meant for outland spousal sponsorship applications. You can ask this question as many times as you want to - the answer isn't going to change.

 

[geoffreydhalia]

I mention

The inland + OWP vs. outland processes are as black and white as I have indicated. The OWP is only granted with the inland process - and both the sponsor and applicant must be physically in Canada to sponsor via the inland route.

I'm not sure how your story about your friend contradicts or conflicts with what I have said. Your friend applied to sponsor his spouse using the outland process while living outside of Canada. As I mentioned in my previous post, he's entitled to sponsor his spouse while living outside of Canada since he's a Canadian citizen. There's nothing unusual or surprising about this story.

I mention my friend's story to show that it's not always Black and White...Sorry if it bothered you....

 

[geoffreydhalia]

Do

There are many scenarios that allow someone to apply for a work permit outside of Canada. A few examples:

- If they have a job offer and approved LMIA from an employer in Canada.
- If their spouse is an International Student who is on a study permit in Canada and is engaged in full time studies (this gives the spouse access to an OWP)
- If their spouse is a Foreign Worker who is on a work permit Canada with a NOC A, B or 0 role (this gives the spouse access to an OWP)
- etc.

It's not meant for outland spousal sponsorship applications. You can ask this question as many times as you want to - the answer isn't going to change.

Don't you think it's ridiculous that a foreign student has more rights (in this process) to be with his/her family in Canada than actual Canadian citizen?

 

[geoffreydhalia]

There's just no sense to it or fair!

 

[scylla]

Do

Don't you think it's ridiculous that a foreign student has more rights (in this process) to be with his/her family in Canada than actual Canadian citizen?

Ultimately it doesn't matter what I think - that's what the rules are. There have been lots of debates on this topic over the years on this forum - it's pretty much been beaten to death. However the rules are what they are. You have to decide what you're going to do based on the rules. Many of us here have been in your situation or in similar situations and have had to make choices or sacrifices.

Note that many OWPs for spouses of foreign students are actually refused. So it's not quite as rosy as it looks.

 

[scylla]

I mention


I mention my friend's story to show that it's not always Black and White...Sorry if it bothered you....

It didn't bother me. I just don't understand why you think this story demonstrates things aren't black and white. Your friend's scenario is very normal - it's nothing unusual. There are tons of people on this forum who have done the same thing. It's allowed by CIC - it aligns to the rules.

Now if you had a story about a friend who was a PR who managed to get a spousal sponsorship application approved while living outside of Canada - that would be unusual (since this isn't allowed per CIC's rules).

 

[geoffreydhalia]

Evetryo

Ultimately it doesn't matter what I think - that's what the rules are. There have been lots of debates on this topic over the years on this forum - it's pretty much been beaten to death. However the rules are what they are. You have to decide what you're going to do based on the rules. Many of us here have been in your situation or in similar situations and have had to make choices or sacrifices.

Note that many OWPs for spouses of foreign students are actually refused. So it's not quite as rosy as it looks.

I think everyone's opinion matters. I'm new to this forum. I know rules are rules. Rules are meant to be challenged. If this topic has been discussed for years, hasn't anyone done anything about it, ie. speak or write to MP's or local political reps, etc, or even write to immigration head office with as much support on points such as the one we've been discussing? I'm on your side. I certainly will be writing to Candice Bergen to express my disappointment in this process and will gather as much support as possible. Though I am appreciative of the support of such a platform as this, it is passive in the sense that it doesn't go further than this forum. How can there be change if there is a collective agreement among us on a number of these points that only hinder us in this process, such as mine and many others in the exact same boat?

There are differences among categories and applicants.

About your end comment; many OWP's for spouses being refused, sure, but it's based on applicant specifications. Some are refused and some are not. Choices yes. Sacrifices, for some, especially for those who are Not Canadian Citizens. They made the choice to sacrifice in order to immigrate to Canada. I am Canadian, I have a family. I can prove we are legitimate marriage. It is not a choice but a right as a Canadian citizen to live in Canada with my family without 'sacrifice.'

India has given me the necessary documents to stay with my family all this time. I am not a Indian citizen. CIC should take note.

My only beef is that one year is way too long in our case, and many who are in the exact same position. Period. That is not bringing families together as they keep saying.....

Your opinion does matter.

 

[canuck78]

Evetryo


I think everyone's opinion matters. I'm new to this forum. I know rules are rules. Rules are meant to be challenged. If this topic has been discussed for years, hasn't anyone done anything about it, ie. speak or write to MP's or local political reps, etc, or even write to immigration head office with as much support on points such as the one we've been discussing? I'm on your side. I certainly will be writing to Candice Bergen to express my disappointment in this process and will gather as much support as possible. Though I am appreciative of the support of such a platform as this, it is passive in the sense that it doesn't go further than this forum. How can there be change if there is a collective agreement among us on a number of these points that only hinder us in this process, such as mine and many others in the exact same boat?

There are differences among categories and applicants.

About your end comment; many OWP's for spouses being refused, sure, but it's based on applicant specifications. Some are refused and some are not. Choices yes. Sacrifices, for some, especially for those who are Not Canadian Citizens. They made the choice to sacrifice in order to immigrate to Canada. I am Canadian, I have a family. I can prove we are legitimate marriage. It is not a choice but a right as a Canadian citizen to live in Canada with my family without 'sacrifice.'

India has given me the necessary documents to stay with my family all this time. I am not a Indian citizen. CIC should take note.

My only beef is that one year is way too long in our case, and many who are in the exact same position. Period. That is not bringing families together as they keep saying.....

Your opinion does matter.

You do realize that you could have started the sponsorship process last year and the you wouldn't need to be separated. You could also wait a year to move. There isn't a requirement that your child arrive in Canada for the start of first grade. That is personal preference.

 

[geoffreydhalia]

You do realize that you could have started the sponsorship process last year and the you wouldn't need to be separated. You could also wait a year to move. There isn't a requirement that your child arrive in Canada for the start of first grade. That is personal preference.

Actually we could not start the process last year because of personal matters. If we could wait a year without issue I would not be on this forum. I know there isn't a requirement that my child starts school in Canada for first grade in this process. It's not a personal preference. I feel it's a necessity. Though I understand CIC doesn't include this kind of information in application. I get that. I simply disagree. I believe it's okay to disagree with bureaucracy. Otherwise, we all become passive sheep....

I have experience in overcoming the 'rules' within the system. Helps to be pushy. I believe that rules, as laid out on paper, in some case, can be bent. Nothing will change if you sit back and do nothing. Everything is worth a try if it's in your best interests and does not hurt anyone..... But thanks for your insightful comment Canuck78.

I'd genuinely like to know your immigration story, and what you have learned....? Isn't that why we are all here? To learn and understand?