Confusion about PR Obligations

[philr85]

Hi Guys,

I'm a PR but have questions about my situation. Here it is and I would love as much advice as possible on this.

After getting my PR I decided I wanted to return to the UK for a while to spend time closer to my family. I spent a year from August 2016 to August 2017 away from Canada. I was still an employee of the company I work for but was on a unpaid leave of absence. Now that I have returned to Canada, I've realised I actually want to go back to the UK. I don't know what will happen in the future but would love to have the option of coming back to Canada.
Do you know what will happen if I don't fulfil the two years out of the five?
Even though the leave of absence was unpaid, I was still an employee of the company I work for. I would periodically check and reply to e-mails but nothing I got paid for. Would any of this count towards the 730 days needed? Do I need to be paid for it to count towards the 730 days?
Would any of the time before I became a permanent resident count towards the 730 days. For example I know citizenship requirements are changing to allow time before PR count towards getting citizenship, does anyone know if this will be a thing for PR?
Finally I have three different dates with reference to when I actually became a PR: -
- I got my CoPR on 29th January 2016.
- I entered back in to Canada from the UK on 7th March 2016 (stamps on CoPR from the CBSA)
- My PR card states April 2021 as the expiry.

Which date do I calculate the 730 days from. Naturally I would calculate from 29th January as that's when I received my CoPR and would give me the most amount of time in Canada.

I would love all advice on this, I know this is a topic that is recurring, but every single person's situation is slightly different and therefore the advice given will be different.

Thank you for your help!

 

[Bs65]

So first your residency obligation starts from the day you land not from the day your PR card is issued or expires. So if I read correctly you must be in Canada for 2 years in the first 5 years from March 7th 2016 , unless you are saying your landing date was January 29th 2016. Whichever date it is is the start date for the 5 years.

The fact that you were in the UK but still on a Canadian company books is irrelevant given you were not assigned to work in the UK by that company, it was a personal choice not a company assignment. So 8/2016-8/2017 cannot be counted towards RO.

There are no changes to the PR residency obligation coming up, only the citizenship requirement which is changing to physical presence in Canada for 3 years out of the 5 years preceding a citizenship application. This can include a maximum of 1 year claimed prior to becoming PR at the rate of one half day for every full day of physical presence, so in effect someone could be a PR for 2 years and claim the other year from pre PR time.

You cannot claim time in Canada prior to becoming a PR towards the PR residency obligation that will only apply to the upcoming citizenship changes..

If you do not meet the 2/5 RO then any time that you enter Canada in the future you run the risk of being reported and your PR status getting revoked. In theory the most time anyone can stay away would be just short of 3 years but then for example they would need to stay 2 years straight without leaving so the longer anyone stays away the odds of getting reported go up.

Once your PR card expires in 2021 things get more complicated as you need to apply for a PRTD to fly back to Canada and that can flag you as not having met RO leading possibly to PR status being revoked. Note also you cannot apply to renew a PR card from outside Canada.

The only positive thing is PR status can only be revoked or renounced as only PR cards expire so whilst you are still a PR you still entitled to enter the country regardless,

 

[philr85]

Bs65 thank you for all of your advice. I really appreciate it.

I have some follow up questions.

It's looking likely I may stay until March 2018 which, will give me 1 year of the RO. If, for example, I decided to come back to Canada in January 2021 (just before my PR card expires) I would likely be flagged as not meeting the RO - would they "chase me down" and ask me to leave the country by April 2021? I understand that if I did do this I would have to stay in the country for two years without leaving to satisfy the RO. But at the point of renewing my PR I would imagine I would still be rejected as they will see I didn't satisfy the RO within the time period on my PR card?

While away, I would periodically check and respond to e-mails for the company. I have checked and for each day I replied there's about four weeks worth of days. Although "not assigned to the UK," do you know if legally any of that would count towards the RO?

Finally, if I do not satisfy the RO at all, but decide I want to come back to Canada in the future, for example in 2022. How would someone like me who has status as a PR apply to come back to live in Canada presuming they have not revoked my status? I guess if they did revoke my status and I applied again in the future that would look bad for a future application? Presumably it would be more beneficial for me to relinquish my status before it expires, than for them to revoke it?

 

[spyfy]

Bs65 thank you for all of your advice. I really appreciate it.

I have some follow up questions.

It's looking likely I may stay until March 2018 which, will give me 1 year of the RO. If, for example, I decided to come back to Canada in January 2021 (just before my PR card expires) I would likely be flagged as not meeting the RO - would they "chase me down" and ask me to leave the country by April 2021? I understand that if I did do this I would have to stay in the country for two years without leaving to satisfy the RO. But at the point of renewing my PR I would imagine I would still be rejected as they will see I didn't satisfy the RO within the time period on my PR card?

Please note that the expiry date is irrelevant for your residency obligation. So if you returned in January 2021 and you have been out of Canada more than three years, it is likely that they will report you. Since you didn't live in Canada out of convenience reasons, there is no case of Humanitarian and Compassionate grounds. So an appeal would most likely fail. It would buy you some time, but not more. They would then issue a departure order. You can either follow that order and leave or not follow that order and have the police meet you at your house eventually.

While away, I would periodically check and respond to e-mails for the company. I have checked and for each day I replied there's about four weeks worth of days. Although "not assigned to the UK," do you know if legally any of that would count towards the RO?

As Bs65 already said: Your days won't count. They only count if you were temporarily assigned to a position abroad. So unless the company you work for has an actual office with several employees in the UK, you had a desk there and you have a letter confirming that you are assigned to the office in the UK from XXXX to YYYY, those days will not count. CIC isn't stupid, you would need very good documentation to prove your case which you don't have because, again, your case doesn't add to the RO. Otherwise, everyone would claim that they worked from abroad on their vacations.

Finally, if I do not satisfy the RO at all, but decide I want to come back to Canada in the future, for example in 2022. How would someone like me who has status as a PR apply to come back to live in Canada presuming they have not revoked my status? I guess if they did revoke my status and I applied again in the future that would look bad for a future application? Presumably it would be more beneficial for me to relinquish my status before it expires, than for them to revoke it?

Option 1:
- Cross the border as a PR
- Be reported for not meeting the RO
- Possibly file an appeal
- Which will in all likelihood be refused
- Then your PR status is revoked
- Then you have to leave the country
- And you could apply for Permanent Residency again from scratch

Option 2:
- formally renounce your PR status
- get a confirmation of that renunciation
- Apply for Permanent Residency again from scratch.

 

[philr85]

Hi there,

They would then issue a departure order. You can either follow that order and leave or not follow that order and have the police meet you at your house eventually.

Thank you for this information, yes I definitely don't want that!

Your days won't count. They only count if you were temporarily assigned to a position abroad.

Again thank you.

Option 2:
- formally renounce your PR status
- get a confirmation of that renunciation
- Apply for Permanent Residency again from scratch.

I have questions about this. Again I am just trying to play out future scenarios in my head so I can make an informed decision.

If I formally renounce my PR and then reapply, will the fact that I didn't satisfy the RO go against me in a second PR application?
Also if I applied after renouncing my PR I would be 36 years old, would being that age stop me from applying? Does age matter?
Also I work in theatre and the entertainment industry something which, never seems to be a "skill" they look for, is it likely CIC will only ever accept applications for labour they are short of? Or will it be a case of anyone can apply, but you'll have more points if you are skilled in a labour area they are short of?
In addition to all of this I first came to Canada as an 11 year old child for a one month holiday to see my Auntie, Uncle and cousins, then again when I was 25 and then eventually moved here when I was 27. Is any of that, plus my previous status as a PR likely to help in anyway with a future application?

Thanks for all of your help. It's very very appreciated.

 

[scylla]

- No, the fact you didn't satisfy RO won't be held against you in a future PR application.
- Yes, age matters. The older you get the more your points drop. I would recommend you calculate your points under Express Entry to see what you get. You want to score 430 points or more. Note that you can't say you have a job offer in Canada unless it's supported by an LMIA.
- The fact you were previously a PR won't help you in any way. You'll have to apply and qualify just the same as anyone else would.

 

[philr85]

I would recommend you calculate your points under Express Entry to see what you get. You want to score 430 points or more.

Hi there thanks for this. I did try the Express Entry calculation and for some reason it is telling me that I am not eligible to apply for Express Entry. Am I doing something wrong perhaps? I went to "Come To Canada" and worked from there?

 

[scylla]

Hi there thanks for this. I did try the Express Entry calculation and for some reason it is telling me that I am not eligible to apply for Express Entry. Am I doing something wrong perhaps? I went to "Come To Canada" and worked from there?

Hard to say. Maybe you're not entering everything correctly. Maybe you don't have enough points.

Have you completed a language test (e.g. IELTS) and have the results yet? If not, that would certainly make you ineligible to apply.

 

[KateChurchill]

Hello,

I have a few questions regarding PR obligations as well and I very much appreciate your feedback. My scenario is that I am a US citizen that officially landed Oct 31, 2016 in Ontario as a PR. Since that date, I have spent 259 days physically in Canada. I read on the Canadian government website that PR's traveling with their Canadian citizen spouses outside Canada can count those days toward their 730 day PR obligation. Is that information correct?

My spouse recently received his US IR1 Visa (Green Card) and next month we will be moving stateside while he continues to work for an Ontario-based company. Will I be allowed to keep my PR status and count the days in the US that I spend with him toward the 730 day PR requirement?

Health Insurance (OHIP) - Since he will still be working for an Ontario company, will our OHIP stay active? A friend told me as long as we visit Ontario once every 90 days that our OHIP coverage will continue. Is that true?

It would be great to winter in the US and summer in Canada; is that possible while still maintaining immigration statuses in both countries?

Thank you for your consideration and feedback!

 

[scylla]

Hello,

I have a few questions regarding PR obligations as well and I very much appreciate your feedback. My scenario is that I am a US citizen that officially landed Oct 31, 2016 in Ontario as a PR. Since that date, I have spent 259 days physically in Canada. I read on the Canadian government website that PR's traveling with their Canadian citizen spouses outside Canada can count those days toward their 730 day PR obligation. Is that information correct?

My spouse recently received his US IR1 Visa (Green Card) and next month we will be moving stateside while he continues to work for an Ontario-based company. Will I be allowed to keep my PR status and count the days in the US that I spend with him toward the 730 day PR requirement?

Health Insurance (OHIP) - Since he will still be working for an Ontario company, will our OHIP stay active? A friend told me as long as we visit Ontario once every 90 days that our OHIP coverage will continue. Is that true?

It would be great to winter in the US and summer in Canada; is that possible while still maintaining immigration statuses in both countries?

Thank you for your consideration and feedback!

Yes - you will be able to keep your PR status since you'll be living outside of Canada with your Canadian citizen spouse.

No - your OHIP will not remain active. For your OHIP to remain active, you must live in Canada for 153 days out of every 12 month period.

 

[philr85]

Hard to say. Maybe you're not entering everything correctly. Maybe you don't have enough points.

I remember all the points stuff from when I applied for PR this time around. But for some reason I don't seem to get that far? Perhaps you can send me the links/a quick description of where I should be going on the website etc? There's obviously different routes too Canadian Experience Class, Federal Skilled Worker etc. I don't have a clue which one of those apply to me? Presumably it would be Canadian Experience Class?

Have you completed a language test (e.g. IELTS) and have the results yet? If not, that would certainly make you ineligible to apply.

I have a completed a language test yes.

 

[scylla]

I would recommend you dedicate a few days to reading through the discussions in the Express Entry section of the forum. If you want to do it yourself, unfortunately there's no short cut to doing a ton of research. Alternatively you can also hire an immigration consultant to do this work for you.

 

[scylla]

Link to detailed info is here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.asp

 

[Medmhn]

My.pr.expire.on. 05may2017 but I.went back.to.canada on.3may 2017'.I still.dont.meet the physical obligation.yet.I need to.wait other 8 mounth.to applay for it. Im.residence sens 2008 and.I renew my.pr 2time. This is will be.3time.is.there.any.problem.with.that
Is there.any limit.to.remw.pr ? Bec.this.time im.welling.to.stay in.canada until.I applay for citizen ship
Plz advice

 

[Medmhn]

s thereany changes to renw the PR