People giving up PR status due to eTAs

[canuck_in_uk]

One very simple question - why not allowing PR individuals from visa-exempt countries to apply for an eTA-like permit in order to let them fly into Canada?
Franlkly, I would pay important sums of money to be able to check in online and not have to go through the hassle I'm going through now when flying back into Canada. I have no problem with CIC wanting to increase the check for those who are trying to abuse the system, but just don't do it at the expense of those who are playing by the rule. The fact that my parents, who live in a different country and have no status in Canada, can check in online when flying to Canada while a PR like me can't really drives me insane.

There is such a permit - it's called a PRTD.

 

[uncomfortable]

There is such a permit - it's called a PRTD.

But that is something else

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/travel-document/

It is a one-time document for those PR non having a PR Card. You would need to request it EVERY SINGLE TIME. Not really what I was looking for.
Why don't they allow PR to apply for eTA, flagging them as PR, so that it is possible to check in online?

 

[canuck_in_uk]

But that is something else

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/travel-document/

It is a one-time document for those PR non having a PR Card. You would need to request it EVERY SINGLE TIME. Not really what I was looking for.
Why don't they allow PR to apply for eTA, flagging them as PR, so that it is possible to check in online?

If your issue is simply that you can't check in online as a PR, I suggest you start your own thread. This thread is about an entirely different topic, namely visa-exempt PRs who are not in compliance with the RO and are giving up their PR status to get an eTA to travel to Canada.

 

[uncomfortable]

The "problem" described happened to a friend of mine a few months ago. He is British, but has a Canadian parent and once upon a time he used to have PR status. He hasn't lived in Canada for years, but never formally gave up the status, so he had to formally do it before obtaining the eTA. I guess part of this "increase" in PRs from visa-exempt countries giving up their status is just an administrative reconciliation of "de facto" situations that had never been formalized. So numbers are probably inflated by this effect.

 

[screech339]

eTA is the right way to go. However it is such an inconvenience for some to deal with, it forces those with PR status who have no met their RO obligations to formally give up their PR status. It has been long long overdue. Unfortunately as long as a (fly to US/ drive to Canada) loophole still exists, the abuse will still continue by those who wants to keep their PR status without RO.

 

[links18]

The "problem" described happened to a friend of mine a few months ago. He is British, but has a Canadian parent and once upon a time he used to have PR status. He hasn't lived in Canada for years, but never formally gave up the status, so he had to formally do it before obtaining the eTA. I guess part of this "increase" in PRs from visa-exempt countries giving up their status is just an administrative reconciliation of "de facto" situations that had never been formalized. So numbers are probably inflated by this effect.

Was his parent Canadian by birth or naturalization when he was born? Because if so, he's Canadian too.

 

[screech339]

E="links18, post: 6267673, member: 2323"]Was his parent Canadian by birth or naturalization when he was born? Because if so, he's Canadian too.[/QUOTE]

I gotten the impression that this friend's parent gotten Canadian citizenship by naturalization after the friend was born. Otherwise how would he have PR status in the first place and forced to renounce it.

 

[nyguy2]

Just as an interesting note on the earlier "unique client identifier" instructions, it looks as though CIC/IRCC audited integration of the Passport issuing to the GCMS system (that other types of applications, e.g. citizenship, are processed on) and identified risks. By October 9th, 2016, they had "suspended" issuing passports through GCMS. dpenabill pointed out earlier in this thread that the gaps with recognizing Canadian citizens to drop eTA processing happen when a citizen doesn't have a record in GCMS (see green quote in that post).

So if your passport was issued on the old inherited Passport Canada system, then you don't have a record in GCMS from your passport (only from naturalization if you naturalized as a Canadian citizen). If your passport is issued on GCMS, then it's almost certain that you have a client identifier because your proof of citizenship (Citizenship certificates already in GCMS, birth certificates for passport applicants who were born in Canada) is part of applying for the passport. But per the earlier article, only about 1,500 passports were issued in 2016 on GCMS before they suspended use of that system to work out security and other issues.

In time, the eTA loophole will probably be closed when GCMS is fully integrated (likely first with new passports being issued on it tied into the system that the eTA checks for, and then later by doing a data migration of information on passports issued under the old system into the new one).

 

[catweazle]

When you add Canadian to the list of citizenships you hold, the ETA form rejects you out of hand. You don't even get to submit the application. Interestingly, the error message does not mention the "special authorization".

 

[alphazip]

I gotten the impression that this friend's parent gotten Canadian citizenship by naturalization after the friend was born. Otherwise how would he have PR status in the first place and forced to renounce it.

I'm not saying it applies to this case, but all of the so-called Lost Canadians were not Canadian citizens until 2009 (or 2015). So, if any of them wanted to immigrate to Canada before those dates, they would have had to become PRs. Therefore, a person definitely could have had the status of PR, even though he/she had a parent born in Canada. Indeed, I'm sure there are people who went through the whole process of becoming Canadian citizens by naturalization, but who are now citizens by descent (retroactive to date of birth) instead.

 

[Natan]

I'm not saying it applies to this case, but all of the so-called Lost Canadians were not Canadian citizens until 2009 (or 2015). So, if any of them wanted to immigrate to Canada before those dates, they would have had to become PRs. Therefore, a person definitely could have had the status of PR, even though he/she had a parent born in Canada. Indeed, I'm sure there are people who went through the whole process of becoming Canadian citizens by naturalization, but who are now citizens by descent (retroactive to date of birth) instead.

Indeed, this may have applied to Lost Canadians born in Canada too.

 

[nyguy2]

When you add Canadian to the list of citizenships you hold, the ETA form rejects you out of hand. You don't even get to submit the application. Interestingly, the error message does not mention the "special authorization".

Yeah, that's a much simpler check, assuming a person honestly discloses they are a Canadian citizen the eTA form doesn't allow it to proceed.

What I was referencing earlier is the system checks on completed eTA forms. When someone "appears to be a citizen of Canada" the system will drop a completed eTA application out of automatic processing for a check by a human being. But the earlier post I linked to indicates that this check only works if the citizen is naturalized.

Basically:
1) If you put that you're Canadian on the eTA form, the form blocks you from proceeding and tells you that you can't.

2) If you don't put down your Canadian citizenship on the eTA form but you naturalized, the eTA application flow can reconcile your biographical info against the records showing you were naturalized and your application is dropped out of automatic processing.

3) If you don't put down your Canadian citizenship on the eTA form and you gained citizenship by birth in Canada, then the eTA form cannot automatically reconcile that you are a Canadian citizen (even if you hold a valid Canadian passport) and it would process automatically unless there was a block on your eTA for some other reason.

The situation where someone who is a Canadian citizen is probably pretty niche. If someone was aware of the loophole and wanted to just apply for an ETA for whatever reason (maybe they didn't want to bother with the hassle/expense of getting a Canadian passport when already having a passport from a second citizenship) that's one. Or maybe in certain cases the person is not aware that they are considered a Canadian citizen, perhaps due to changes in the Citizenship Act they were not citizens before and are now considered citizens, or maybe they lived most of their lives in a foreign locale and they are somehow unaware of jus soli citizenship.