C-6 not great for some of us

[Natan]

And my view is there should be world peace, but that's not going to happen.... is it?

You do know money doesn't grow on trees, right? and in order for all those nice things you mentioned to happen, the government needs money to get people and resources to process all the applications, where else do you think the money should be coming from? especially when the government is already deep in debt/deficit. True, Canada needs immigrants to keep the social systems afloat, but if one can't even afford $600 to apply for citizenship, how exactly is he keeping the system afloat? If you break it down to a 3-year saving plan, it is about 50 cents per day, any cell phone plan would cost more than that - and I don't even have a cell phone plan

It is not only the immigrant naturalizing who adds to the productive output, but also their progeny. I know many second and third generation Canadians who have enjoyed the benefits of a Canadian education and are living very happily in the middle and upper middle class. None of them would be productive members of Canadian society without the immigration of their forebears. Return on investment in immigrants isn't simply the productive output of the immigrants, but also the productive output of all their descendants who choose to remain in Canada.

Saving up $600 per person for citizenship is not easy for all immigrants. For a family of four, this can be a truly burdensome expense. Suggesting that someone can save 50¢ a day for three years and comparing that to the cost of a cell phone plan, bespeaks a life of financial privilege where $600 per person is not a significant economic burden. For those who find it a burden, living paycheque to paycheque, barely hanging on financially, it can be a nearly insurmountable hurdle.

In fact, money does grow on trees -- it's made of paper, yes? LOL But joking aside, the costs of further subsidizing immigration applications is not a heavy burden for Government to bear, considering the mighty return on investment. But to answer your question, where should the money come from, I suggest Canada decrease its purchase of F-18s by two or three fighter jets -- that should cover the extra cost of lowering the fees.

 

[Natan]

I wouldn't complain if they made the test a little less of a joke. In general, Canadian citizenship laws on paper seem to me to strike a fair balance between moving to integrate immigrants quickly and not giving out citizenship for free, but the implementation of these laws has tended to leave something desired, like when the processing time almost equaled the qualifying time as it tended to just a few years ago.

There's also the issue of test questions where the "correct" answer is the mythology and the "incorrect" answer is the factual one. For instance, the citizenship booklet states that the border with the U.S. exists to protect Canadian sovereignty -- pure mythology. The border exists for the many reasons that brought it into existence, at a time when there was no Canadian sovereignty to protect. The same sort of thing is true of most citizenship tests. These tests don't actually assess whether someone will have a net positive impact on Canadian society, whether they will integrate into Canada, or how much they will contribute to our society. These tests are primarily for the benefit of existing Canadian citizens who feel that citizenship is a kind of reward that ought to be earned.

 

[itsmyid]

It is not only the immigrant naturalizing who adds to the productive output, but also their progeny. I know many second and third generation Canadians who have enjoyed the benefits of a Canadian education and are living very happily in the middle and upper middle class. None of them would be productive members of Canadian society without the immigration of their forebears. Return on investment in immigrants isn't simply the productive output of the immigrants, but also the productive output of all their descendants who choose to remain in Canada.

Saving up $600 per person for citizenship is not easy for all immigrants. For a family of four, this can be a truly burdensome expense. Suggesting that someone can save 50¢ a day for three years and comparing that to the cost of a cell phone plan, bespeaks a life of financial privilege where $600 per person is not a significant economic burden. For those who find it a burden, living paycheque to paycheque, barely hanging on financially, it can be a nearly insurmountable hurdle.

In fact, money does grow on trees -- it's made of paper, yes? LOL But joking aside, the costs of further subsidizing immigration applications is not a heavy burden for Government to bear, considering the mighty return on investment. But to answer your question, where should the money come from, I suggest Canada decrease its purchase of F-18s by two or three fighter jets -- that should cover the extra cost of lowering the fees.

Just want to point out, the $600 application fee is only for adult, it is $100 for children under 18 - so again, having a family of 4 doesn't make it significantly more costly than single adult applicant. And like I said, it is just 50 cents a day for 3 years, cheaper than any cell phone plans out there, and low income families with children receive way more welfare than that amount

 

[Natan]

Just want to point out, the $600 application fee is only for adult, it is $100 for children under 18 - so again, having a family of 4 doesn't make it significantly more costly than single adult applicant. And like I said, it is just 50 cents a day for 3 years, cheaper than any cell phone plans out there, and low income families with children receive way more welfare than that amount

It is easy to speak from a position of relative economic privilege. Just saying.

 

[itsmyid]

It is easy to speak from a position of relative economic privilege. Just saying.

Like I said, I don't even have a cellphone plan, and I spend less than people that I know are struggling financially - I just keep things minimum and prioritize my spending on things that matter. No matter how hard you spin it, $200 a year is not that hard to save (especially considering the minimum wage in ON is over $10) and if you are unable to, you really need to take a good look at your life style... if you have to consider cellphone plan, cable, LCBO, etc. as necessity no matter how little you make, then of course you won't be able to save any

 

[Natan]

Like I said, I don't even have a cellphone plan, and I spend less than people that I know are struggling financially - I just keep things minimum and prioritize my spending on things that matter. No matter how hard you spin it, $200 a year is not that hard to save (especially considering the minimum wage in ON is over $10) and if you are unable to, you really need to take a good look at your life style... if you have to consider cellphone plan, cable, LCBO, etc. as necessity no matter how little you make, then of course you won't be able to save any

I am glad you are able to live so frugally -- it is a credit to your fiscal responsibility. I find it commendable.

Not everyone's life is the same. Some lack the disposition and/or expertise to be as frugal as you are. Some have expenses they are required to pay, that you do not have. Some have calamities that befall them, that have not befallen you, yet cost them money. Some may not bring in enough money to save, no matter how much they lower their expenses. These situations are endured by people in Canada, whether they are citizens or not. Thus, not everyone may be able to save the amount of money necessary for citizenship fees and have those funds handy when they become eligible. That's just a fact of life. The fees should not, themselves, be a high hurdle standing between otherwise eligible applicants and citizenship. Naturalizing as a citizen should not be a financial hardship for anyone.

 

[itsmyid]

I am glad you are able to live so frugally -- it is a credit to your fiscal responsibility. I find it commendable.

Not everyone's life is the same. Some lack the disposition and/or expertise to be as frugal as you are. Some have expenses they are required to pay, that you do not have. Some have calamities that befall them, that have not befallen you, yet cost them money. Some may not bring in enough money to save, no matter how much they lower their expenses. These situations are endured by people in Canada, whether they are citizens or not. Thus, not everyone may be able to save the amount of money necessary for citizenship fees and have those funds handy when they become eligible. That's just a fact of life. The fees should not, themselves, be a high hurdle standing between otherwise eligible applicants and citizenship. Naturalizing as a citizen should not be a financial hardship for anyone.

I am sure everybody has his own stories but guess what? life is never fair, never was and never will be. Just look at people who are affected by C-24 and C-6, how is it fair for people who are caught in the middle? not to mention all kinds of other things that are happening everyday: why would the people in Toronto and Vancouver have to suffer from sky rocketing housing costs? why would union workers and government employees get much better pay and benefits than people in other sectors who are working just as hard if not harder?

one can either rise up and suck it up, or keep complaining and self-pitying

 

[Natan]

I am sure everybody has his own stories but guess what? life is never fair, never was and never will be. Just look at people who are affected by C-24 and C-6, how is it fair for people who are caught in the middle? not to mention all kinds of other things that are happening everyday: why would the people in Toronto and Vancouver have to suffer from sky rocketing housing costs? why would union workers and government employees get much better pay and benefits than people in other sectors who are working just as hard if not harder?

one can either rise up and suck it up, or keep complaining and self-pitying

Let's not try to change anything because life is unfair, always was and always will be? Let's not address inequalities in our society because there are other inequalities in our society and if we don't fix them all simultaneously we should not fix any of them? Really? This is an unworthy line of reasoning.

 

[itsmyid]

Let's not try to change anything because life is unfair, always was and always will be? Let's not address inequalities in our society because there are other inequalities in our society and if we don't fix them all simultaneously we should not fix any of them? Really? This is an unworthy line of reasoning.

Well, compared to all other social inequality, this one is only worth $600, so if you can't even overcome this, how do you survive in this world? Inequality is part of life, wanting to change it doesn't mean you have to wait till it is changed - you still need to live your life and try what you can to move forward, it'd be great to have the ideal world, but until then, you have to try as hard as you can instead of waiting for someone to hand it over to you.

Sure, let's get back to all those excuses you listed: how many of those are truly immigrants who really want the citizenship but couldn't afford $600? and out of those who can't afford the $600, how many of them are capable of saving/making that money but just don't want to? Just like people with obesity, some of them are cursed with genetic condition or other illness so they can't help it, but for the majority, it really is just that they don't have enough self-discipline

 

[Natan]

Well, compared to all other social inequality, this one is only worth $600, so if you can't even overcome this, how do you survive in this world?

Sure, let's get back to all those excuses you listed: how many of those are truly immigrants who really want the citizenship but couldn't afford $600? and out of those who can't afford the $600, how many of them are capable of saving/making that money but just don't want to? Just like people with obesity, some of them are cursed with genetic condition or other illness so they can't help it, but for the majority, it really is just that they don't have enough self-discipline

More and more studies have been showing that permanent weight loss has little to do with self-discipline, and much more to do with genetics, metabolism, previous generations' experience with famine, biochemistry, lack of education, poverty, food deserts, agribusiness practices, and lack of healthy food choices. Just as with the economic hurdles in affording citizenship fees for the poor, the causes of these situations are diverse and complicated. I shall not blame the victims for their obesity or their poverty!

 

[itsmyid]

More and more studies have been showing that permanent weight loss has little to do with self-discipline, and much more to do with genetics, metabolism, previous generations' experience with famine, biochemistry, lack of education, poverty, food deserts, agribusiness practices, and lack of healthy food choices. Just as with the economic hurdles in affording citizenship fees for the poor, the causes of these situations are diverse and complicated. I shall not blame the victims for their obesity or their poverty!

I am sure none of those 'more and more studies' were done in Ethiopia or any poor African areas where food is hard to get and everybody is skinny

 

[links18]

There's also the issue of test questions where the "correct" answer is the mythology and the "incorrect" answer is the factual one. For instance, the citizenship booklet states that the border with the U.S. exists to protect Canadian sovereignty -- pure mythology. The border exists for the many reasons that brought it into existence, at a time when there was no Canadian sovereignty to protect. The same sort of thing is true of most citizenship tests. These tests don't actually assess whether someone will have a net positive impact on Canadian society, whether they will integrate into Canada, or how much they will contribute to our society. These tests are primarily for the benefit of existing Canadian citizens who feel that citizenship is a kind of reward that ought to be earned.

Ah yes, there are the real answers and the answers that are necessary to pass the test. LOL. But yes, countries do immigration for their own benefit and the benefit of their citizens; not the benefit of the immigrants (refugee may be different situation). Of course, there is certainly an argument to be made that society as a whole does better when immigrants are treated with respect and are subject to policies designed to speed their integration into society rather than being subject to suspicion and punitive and draconian laws.

 

[cempjwi]

You were signing it as a PR. This only applied at PR stage. Once you become Canadian, you are no longer PR. The "intend to reside" contract is no longer valid.

Again, wrong. Just because you repeat a lie one thousand times it doesn't make it true. You do that quite often. If your "theory" about signing contracts in different stages was true, how come residency requirements apply for PR's? After all, they signed the application before they were PR's. You have failed to prove many points based on your skewed perception of facts. You should, for the good of people, refrain from posting anymore.

 

[capermanet]

Happy 1st of July everyone, with a bill c6 into the effect and still not being able to apply for citizenship.

 

[NewUser2018]

stop MeMe, MeMe, MeMe like kids in candy store.

Celebrate your c6 this summer and enjoy your life until you get your stuff.

Please stop crying over backlog remours.
After bill c6 passed i am shocked how many folks are angry but same people where pushing for C6 in summer of 2016 late night @ 3-4am.