Rainbow Bridge PR Landing FAILED

[lachy_]

I will try again this Tuesday.
Feel free to share your experience,

Good luck guys.

Did you flag pole today?

 

[picklee]

Actually Not. There is (NOT) always a no man land between two borders of the countries. In my understanding there is a no man land between Canada and US borders. So you cross the Canada borders and US territory starts in few meters. They have secured that territory and this is where they stop you to enter. Before that point you are in no man's land. So You are already out of Canada (the reason you will enter again to complete the landing) and you have not entered USA and they refuse your entry, show you the gate to other country, which accepts you.

So you were never under the jurisdiction of either of the two countries !

This is simply not true as a matter of law. Every country has sovereignty over its borders and territories. The laws of a country apply at the border, not "a few meters" later. For this reason, border checkpoints are within the territory of a country, otherwise how else could a country establish jurisdiction?

There are thousands of kilometers of uncontrolled border between Canada and the U.S. This is not to say that a no man's land exists along this whole transact. Once you pass the 49th parallel, you are subject to the laws of the other country.

Just read the stories about recent migrants leaving the U.S. for Canada seeking asylum to know what I'm talking about:

http://www.npr.org/2017/04/12/522991849/one-taxi-drivers-mission-to-help-refugees-reach-the-canadian-border

 

[Mthornt]

Until flag-polers have these types of issues, I don't even see why this is a discussion. I'm yet to hear of a flag-poler being detained for illegally entering the country. I can tell you that I grew up in Buffalo, and what I've seen is if you are not allowed entry into the US (or Canada) you are denied entry and sent right back over the bridge. Now, this might be different at an airport since it's not that easy to "send someone back over the border" for obvious reasons, but we're talking about flag-poling. When someone gets arrested for illegal entry while trying to flag pole, this may be a relevant discussion, for now it's nothing but ridiculous speculation.

 

[mf4361]

This is simply not true as a matter of law. Every country has sovereignty over its borders and territories. The laws of a country apply at the border, not "a few meters" later. For this reason, border checkpoints are within the territory of a country, otherwise how else could a country establish jurisdiction?

There are thousands of kilometers of uncontrolled border between Canada and the U.S. This is not to say that a no man's land exists along this whole transact. Once you pass the 49th parallel, you are subject to the laws of the other country.

Just read the stories about recent migrants leaving the U.S. for Canada seeking asylum to know what I'm talking about:

http://www.npr.org/2017/04/12/522991849/one-taxi-drivers-mission-to-help-refugees-reach-the-canadian-border

This is correct in as a legal concept. The treaty that defines the border between Canada and US is the 49th parallel, which is a line, which means it has no thickness.

The practical operation of border control, however, is not that clear. The 49th Parallel is marked by 900+ markers and they are perfectly straight. Some are off by a few hundred feet Imagine you committed a crime on the rainbow bridge while walking across, which country is going to press charges?

In essence once you are met with US border officers, you are subject to US in a legally perspective but not in immigration perspective. (Similarly in international airports) When you got the flagpole paper back, Canada will treat you entering Canada from US (Note Canada has no record of leaving the country)

 

[picklee]

This is correct in as a legal concept. The treaty that defines the border between Canada and US is the 49th parallel, which is a line, which means it has no thickness.

The practical operation of border control, however, is not that clear. The 49th Parallel is marked by 900+ markers and they are perfectly straight. Some are off by a few hundred feet Imagine you committed a crime on the rainbow bridge while walking across, which country is going to press charges?

In essence once you are met with US border officers, you are subject to US in a legally perspective but not in immigration perspective. (Similarly in international airports) When you got the flagpole paper back, Canada will treat you entering Canada from US (Note Canada has no record of leaving the country)

Fair enough. I think you meant the markers are NOT perfectly straight.

 

[luckysimsim]

I tried to do my landing today. Failed again, they said they stopped doing it since 10 am cuz there were too many people lined up. I was there around 2pm.

I also saw a big pile of flagpole white paper on the officer's desk that were taken from other people who tried to do their PR landing, that's a lot of people's future..... They said even if I physically exit Canada and re-enter will be treated the same way because I'm doing the same thing.

Be prepared for folks who are planning to land at rainbow bridge, they are not treating us lawfully and fairly. I've sent a complaint through CBSA feedback form, not accepting this. I strongly recommend people who had the same experienced to send complaint too, that's the only way our voice can be heard. The more people complain the sonner they will reopen the full service.

 

[luckysimsim]

Did you flag pole today?

I did, please see my previous comment

 

[Mthornt]

I have a feeling that in the near future, flag poling will no longer be allowed...

 

[mtc1992]

Took my friend to flagpole at peace bridge today. Arrived at 9:30pm, we were gone by 11:35. They tried to convince us to do an inland landing at an office but we persisted and were allowed

 

[lachy_]

I did, please see my previous comment

That's very unfortunate. Couple of months ago I'm reading posts about how smooth landing process at Rainbow bridge. The week has just started and officers are cutting applicants at10am. I can't imagine how big that line up was! Are you going to give another shot at earlier time or you already considered booking an appointment at local VO?
We scheduled our flagpole next week, I hope it'll go just fine.

 

[Bs65]

I tried to do my landing today. Failed again, they said they stopped doing it since 10 am cuz there were too many people lined up. I was there around 2pm.

I also saw a big pile of flagpole white paper on the officer's desk that were taken from other people who tried to do their PR landing, that's a lot of people's future..... They said even if I physically exit Canada and re-enter will be treated the same way because I'm doing the same thing.

Be prepared for folks who are planning to land at rainbow bridge, they are not treating us lawfully and fairly. I've sent a complaint through CBSA feedback form, not accepting this. I strongly recommend people who had the same experienced to send complaint too, that's the only way our voice can be heard. The more people complain the sonner they will reopen the full service.

You will not like this answer but just being approved for a permit of any kind or even having a COPR in hand does not give anyone any rights to demand or to expect that CBSA will automatically approve anyone at a time of the applicants chosing. CBSA as with any country border control can pick and chose who and when they let people into the country who are not already PRs or citizens for example or the timings when they process applications to change status.

The issue really here is nobody seems able to find any official CBSA announcement of these restricted times through the summer other than a third party website, PWC, quoting some discussion with someone unknown.

As for treating lawfully yes CBSA is entitled to take this action and law has nothing to do with anything about this restriction. As for treating fairly maybe not but thats just the way it is unfortunately and it could be a hundred times worse if they imposed same at an airport POE which would be unlikely versus a land border. If someone wants to change their status enough then most people would accept the restrictions and adjust accordingly, assuming of course as said they know in advance.

 

[ashu1710]

I have a feeling that in the near future, flag poling will no longer be allowed...

Nor should it be, in my opinion. When I first heard about it, I was surprised at how commonplace it was and at how border officials on both sides didn't seem to mind in the slightest.

 

[Mthornt]

Nor should it be, in my opinion. When I first heard about it, I was surprised at how commonplace it was and at how border officials on both sides didn't seem to mind in the slightest.

I was surprised to find that this was possible as well. I'm willing to bet you can't flag pole at the Mexican border, but who knows, I don't have enough information to know for sure. I feel like this is one of those gray areas that exist because of the super close US-Can relationship. If I were inland, I'd probably just schedule the appointment to do it inland unless I were in a hurry for travel or something. I'm betting this is shut down by 2018, especially with the increased goal of PRs for CIC and more people looking to flag pole.

 

[alexliu]

How about I have a US visa and across the border without flagpole, which mean I will go back legally with Canadian WP and VISA.
Can I still landing from Rainbow bridge? Or even my situation doesn't work?
Please advise, seniors.

 

[luckysimsim]

How about I have a US visa and across the border without flagpole, which mean I will go back legally with Canadian WP and VISA.
Can I still landing from Rainbow bridge? Or even my situation doesn't work?
Please advise, seniors.

No, I had a talk with their supervisor at Rainbow Bridge through the phone, the supervisor in the phone was polite but said I will be treated the same way because I'm attempting to do the same thing, when they stop processing PR landing, they just stopped processing it no matter what. I know this is not fair to us, but I understand this is not fair for them either because the border has much more to care about than just PR landing, BUT, on the other hand, any updates, alerts or announcements should be posted on the official website so people can plan things ahead.